Short strikes and too much hook!!!

[Supermat]

This topic came to me while reading a topic about how line visibility might affect bites.

As a lot of you guys know, I'm a swimbait fisherman by nature so a lot of my thoughts, topics, and examples revolve around that type of fishing but what I want to discuss is the potential use of too much hook.

Here is my example: I throw a lot of a swimbait called the Huddleston Deluxe. Its an 8" bait that is about as lifelike as any bait can be. www.huddlestondeluxe.com

I used to use a "stinger hook" setup that consisted of two 1/0 gamakatsu trebles connected to the belly of the bait via 80lb sevenstrand wire and I caught a lot of big bass with it. A lot of the fish would inhale the bait but more often then not they'd barely be hooked on one of the bottom treble hooks. Often I'd land a big bass that had a single point of the rearmost treble right in the lip, talk about scary! I was always wondering how to get a little more hook on the bait because even with these belly trebles I would miss a lot of bites. One day I went out with a friend named Don to one of his lakes.

Don told me that he would throw the very same bait with nothing but the stock jig hook. IE, this 8", 5 oz bait had the same amount of hook as a standard 1/2 oz flippin' jig! I told the guy he was nuts and that I'd teach him a thing or two about stinger hooks. 8 hours later he'd had 5 bites and landed a couple 3-4 lbers and I hadn't had a bite. This is a common occurance with swimbaits for one guy to get the bites but I was curious. I decided to cut all my extra hooks off and just use the stock jig hook to see if I could get bit. 15 minutes later I was staring into the livewell at my beautiful 11 lber.

Since that day with Don I've started fishing the bait with only a jig hook. Do you know what I've found? Not only do I get more bites. (Probably because the bait looks more natural) but I rarely miss a bite, they now engulf the bait and get the jig hook squarely in the roof of the mouth! My tail biters have become hard biters and my fish losing problems on small treble hooks have been completely resolved. A year ago you could never have convinced me to throw a bait this size with so little hook but now I'm convinced.

With all this in mind I ask you, is there such a thing as too much hook? I know with the rest of my baits I believe in as much hook as I can get away with! My spooks have a pair of 1/0 hooks instead of three size 1 hooks. My double-wide beavers get a 7/0 hook, my 10" worms get an 11/0 hook, and even my dropshot worms go on a HEAVY DUTY 1/0-2/0 hook. What do you think? Would it benefit all of us to back off the hooks a little or do we need to add more to stop the short strikes?

Matt

[BassBeat101]

While I don't fish a lot of hardbaits, as far as plastics are concerned I try and go with as little hook as I can get away with.  Many times I'll use a 1/0 even on my U-tails and Culprit ribbontails.  If I'm having a lot of fishing just nipping the tail, I'll switch to a trick worm and rig another small hook on my line and run it out through the tail end - it also results in better action for the lure and fewer red flags for curious bass.

Daryl

[Catt]

That is extremely interesting

I think as long as the size of the hook doesn't impede the action of the lure then go with it.

I use a 3/0 hook on 6 or smaller plastic, 4/0 on plastic 7 to 8, and 5/0 on 10 plastic

[Randall]

A question I almost always get from people who fish with me for the first time is why I fish the hook I do on a trickworm while fishing. To most the hook looks to short for a longer worm like a trickworm. I use a 2/0 Owner Rig'n hook which has a short shank but a wide gap. There are plenty of hooks which will fit the worm well and have a longer shank which in most peoples thinking will hook more fish since the fish doesn't need to have as much of the worm in its mouth to get the hook. There are also plenty of larger hooks with a wider gap that will hold a big fish once hooked. But if I use any other hook than a 2/0 Rig'n hook the number of strikes and fish landed will go down because the action of the bait is not as good since more worm is free to move on the short shank Rig'n hook than with any other hook of the same gap size. If I go to say a 1/0 hook I will lose more big fish and miss more hooksets because the hook gap is too small. Choosing the best hook or number of hooks is very important to me and there is such a thing as too much and too little hook.

[Fish Chris]

Very interesting subject. I know we have talked about this very thing in person, and by phone, but just for the sake of anyone who might want to read about this.....

Yes, as a matter of fact, I once talked to the "Big Bass Guru" himself about this, and he said, "You really want to get bit" ? Remove "ALL" of the hooks from your lure" ! Oh sure, you won't put any in the boat, but you will quickly learn how conditioned big, old, 'smart' bass become to not biting a lure covered with steel / hardware.

Ya' know, I have a few buddies (you know them too) who fish for both big bass, and tournies also (although not neccessarily at the same time). These guys have come up with all kinds of fancy multi-treble hook harnesses, using braided steel and crimps. I mean, it blows me away to see a Hud with 4 trebles strapped all over it ! And guess what ? They stick a LOT more small fish, in the 3 to 6 lb range, with these hook riggings than I do with mine. But I believe my rigging will get bit a little more often by big fish, and fewer of them will come unbuttoned.

However, I still believe that my rigging will get "inhaled" at least somewhat more often, and my large single treble almost always ends up right in the roof of the mouth, or right behind the top center of its lip ! In other words, they ain't coming off !

You know that my rig ends up with one large treble (two hooks pointing up, and the third buried into the Huds back, right besides the dorsal fin) sitting very close to where the 1 hook is pre-rigged in the Hud ROF #12. Of course my "first step" is to remove that large, single jig hook with a pair of dykes.

Anyway, yes, I do believe that "the less hardware, the better"..... but I also believe that my rigging, with only slightly more steel and hardware involved, is worth it, as the treble can break away from the lure after hookup, and allow less leverage from the fish, against the lure, to be able to throw it. Plus, my hook can be replaced with a "surgical sharp" new one, as often as it needs to be, rather than sharpening that single stock hook a few times, until it's worthless.

I've been threatening to do a photo description of my Hud rigging for a long time..... And now today, I'm stuck inside, recovering from the flu (that was a lot of fun :-( So maybe I will get started with this now....

Peace,

Fish

[Lightninrod]

My first swimbait Bass came on a Matt's Bluegill with an added belly-treble hook.  Since then, I've fished them without a belly hook, just relying on the stock, dorsal hook and that hook usually ends up in the roof of the Bass's mouth.

I'll take your advice Mat and remove the stinger hook I added to my Huds.

Like to see your rig Chris 8-).

Dan

[Supermat]

Chris, Randall, and others... I like where this is going. Here's one to complicate it even further:

 I was out fishing today and had a couple short strikes on my bait. I thought you know what, I'm going to throw on a stinger hook and see what happens, hopefully I don't hurt a fish. The very next bite I actually hook up, she comes up to the surface, thrashes, and immediately throws the bait! Bear in mind, that is the first fish I've lost after a solid hook up in nearly a year... and the first fish on a stinger hooked bait in nearly a year. What did we learn? If they're goign to eat it, they'll eat it, otherwise you're just risking hurting them and you'll probably lose them anyway with the stinger rig. Go figure!

[Randall]

Its been my experience with swimbaits that more times than not they are going to swallow it if they can. I have never felt I needed a stinger because usually when I get one it is hooked deep in the mouth. May be different with spots or smallmouths or when LM are locked on beds I may add one sometimes but for the most part with LM it holds true. I am also like you in the fact I don't want to kill any big fish in the lakes I fish. I catch some big fish multiple times because I always try to put them back alive. I just usually take my chances and go without the stinger and take what I get. I personally don't feel like I miss enough to attach a stinger and I think the bait looks more natural with out it.

[Fish Chris]

I certainly have had my fair share of light hearted swats at my swimbait.... sometimes I even saw the fish... and sometimes they were hawgs ! But it's usually pretty obvious that they were not "trying to eat it" but rather, just checking it out.

Granted, had I had hooks hanging all over the thing, I might have had a better chance of hooking the fish on the edge of the lip, or side of the head.... or even the tail if it swam up and tail swatted it (yes, I have actually seen this happen) but like Matt said, I'd likely lose a big fish from any of these types of hook ups anyway.

I've actually kind of gotten to the point where I don't really even consider those light hearted swats as "missed bites" anyway. Believe me, when a big bass decides it's going to inhale that trout lure, their is not going to be anything to stop it, and it will very rarely miss ! ....and in this case, those trailers will just make the fish harder to get unhooked, and increase the odds of hurting the fish.

But just to reiterate.... The less hardware in and around that lure (like steel hooks, leaders, crimps, swivels, etc) the better !

Peace,

Fish