Fish brush piles planted by locals?

[drmnbig]

I do agree with you...hence why I started this thread.  

In all seriousness, I'm a bankbeater.  I can't figure out bottom structure to save me.  Luckily I've been fishing this lake for years and I know the type of cover that I can usually fare pretty well on.

This is making for a great debate and it's good to see what everyone has to say.

[flechero]

Matt,  

What would be the difference if I spotted the brush pile on my graph and fished it? If it's a planted pile, is there a difference how I got to it?

However, using your own statements, wouldn't planting a pile also be like cheating? Since you didn't use your skills to find fish, you had to dump brush in the lake to attract them to a spot you could find again.

You also said it... planting pile in good areas is a key so if I am also fishing those areas, I might either find them on the graph or notice someone fishing the same "kind" of area... If a pile is planted on a point (as many are) and I fish the point, am I cheating? Are we now saying it's ok to fish a planted pile, ONLY if you found it by accident on your graph? That sort of takes the public out of the public lake, IMO.

Should I assume that anyone I see fishing areas I normally fish are all cheaters? How do we know who explored and found vs. who checked out a spot they saw a boat near?

Deep breaths... It's fishing... once you take the fun out of it, it may as well be yard work.

[reo]

If I see someone hammering fish in an area with no above water indications of what is below and the next time I am fishing the area I go to that spot (because no one is on it) and find there is brush down there that is some how cheating?? Would it be different if it was a small patch of weeds?? or a small rock pile??

Sorry fellas but I am not getting the cheating or unsportsman like thing at all here??  

I have found a number of spots like that and have found many by just fishing an area too. Of the ones that I found "on my own" how ever I am sure that others fish as well.  

[Matt Fly]

Fletchero,   the difference is, you found them by observing your graph.   Just as I try to find them as well on my own.

I don't see a problem with graphing that area to see what kind of an area these guys seem to be doing well in so I can find other areas similar.     It is assumed that these guys sank piles and that they were in fact fishing a pile and not some old pond dam, rock pile, creek channel or any other fish holding attractors until you go look.

The thread said he has been hammered by locals on a spot during  tournaments.    I understand luck of the draw and getting to a community hole that is known.    But it wasn't described as a community hole, and his only knowing of the fact was, he has watched them and they always hammer him in tournaments.    

         As for me placing brush out.    Its legal on the core lakes that I have done it on.        

        I'm not a local in this area, and you know , that we fish against guys who have grown up on said lakes with 40-50 years of experience between the two on a number of lakes locally in the DFW area.    These guys know of 100-s of piles they didn't sink and 100's that they did.

      There is no way you can learn 10-15 lakes within a 100 miles radius to be competitive on team trails in  a few years time.    Remember, we are talking weekend warriors were the vast majority of us work 40 hour work weeks.    Kind of limits time on the water.

         I placed mine out in open water,    You may see me, but unless you come close enough to mark it on gps, your gonna spend time trying to find it the first time .    

  Time that could be spent in learning the lake on your own.

What happened to that unwritten rule about fishing your buddies holes he showed ya?  So now, when talking about competitive fishing, its okay fish others, why because their not your buddies?

     One last note.    If you found similar areas as to which you described, and you are successfull, you just gained confidence in  YOUR OWN abilities to locate and catch fish.

       How does this help ones ability in learning to locate fish?

       

[CJ]

Mattfly, those are my thoughts ecxactly.

[flechero]

Thanks Matt, I appreciate the answers.  One follow up if I may...

 It is assumed that these guys sank piles and that they were in fact fishing a pile and not some old pond dam, rock pile, creek channel or any other fish holding attractors until you go look.

Would it matter if you found a tank dam or rock pile instead?  You'd still be fishing a spot you saw from another angler, regardless of whether or not he happened to sink a brush pile so it would still be cheating by the earlier definition.

Just to be super clear, I'm asking for your opinions because I respect them and I'm truly curious as to how you look at these situations.  

[IdahoLunkerHunter]

I say fish them. I see no problem creating habitat for the fish. If a man-made lake is created where do the stumps and brush come from. They don't magically appear. Fisherman and Ecologists strategically place habitat for fish to live in and why not partake in the growth and help of the habitat you have created?

Crappie anglers do this all time on my lake in front of their docks. I have had days that I can catch over 100 crappie fishing in front of a dozen docks. I see no harm in it!

ILH

Added: I also find it hard to believe that if you saw someone spanking a certain spot you will not go and see what the type of structure the fish are holding in. I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't use that knowledge to your benefit, especially in a tourney. There is so much knowledge about lakes and "most" people, I would hope, wouldn't mind helping other anglers out. I have people ask me all the time where and what to fish on my home lake. I give people a 100% description and let them know I am an avid catch and release fisherman and if they are to fish my spots they are to practice the same. If I find them keeping fish on my spots they violate that trust and they don't get any more info.

Deep breaths... It's fishing... once you take the fun out of it, it may as well be yard work. Cheesy

[Tin]

I found a pile yesterday, on my own, and have a T next weekend...should I fish it? ;D

[CODbasser]

sinking brush is not cheating...cheating is those a-holes that catch fish before a tx and go back and get them in the tx...cheating is those idiots that cant catch a fish off the bed, so they fowl hook them instead...and lets not forget the guys that meet their buddies on the lake during a tx and get fish from them.....sinking brush is hardly cheating...especially compared to the guys that do the crap i just mentioned...i wish they would make laws against it so they could be prosecuted...

[tyrius.]

I found a pile yesterday, on my own, and have a T next weekend...should I fish it? ;D

If the pile is in a white porcelain bowl, then you're probably not going to have much luck fishing it!

[done]

LOL, really healthy debate guys.

Personally, I think would consider it cheap to plant MY own brush pile on a lake. But that is me. I feel you should play and win by fishing naturally occurring structure in a lake. To seed a lake with my own pile would be a short cut compared to scouting and finding the natural structure that holds the fish.

As for fishing someone elses' spot. It is a public lake. there are only so many spots, nobody owns them. If nobody is fishing there, then fish it. If someone is there move on.  My natural reaction when someone is on MY spot is to get ticked. But then I stop and think, "Who the heck am I to lay claim to some spot in a lake!?"

I have also see folks fish the heck out of a spot for a while catch nothing have someone else come in and throw in and nail a Bass in 2 minutes.

I do want to point out the "MY" and "ME" here. If there are no explicit rules against certain things, then you are not breaking the rules. At that point, if YOUR conscience dictates something is wrong, then do not do it, if it doesn't then don't.

Personally, in a tournament these guys have no claim to any part of the lake. They put up the brush pile, it is public domain, fish it.

Just my .02.

[CJ]

sinking brush is not cheating...cheating is those a-holes that catch fish before a tx and go back and get them in the tx...cheating is those idiots that cant catch a fish off the bed, so they fowl hook them instead...and lets not forget the guys that meet their buddies on the lake during a tx and get fish from them.....sinking brush is hardly cheating...especially compared to the guys that do the crap i just mentioned...i wish they would make laws against it so they could be prosecuted...

They do have laws for that. It's called theft by deception and/or organized crime and depending on how much they steal from a tournament, it could be a felony. Just ask the two guys that are still sitting in jail here in Ky.

[daviscw]

If you don't fish a sunken brush pile, the dude in the boat behind you probably will. Then he will take your tourney entry fee. If that's cool with you, I would be more than happy to take your money myself.

[Matt Fly]

I found a pile yesterday, on my own, and have a T next weekend...should I fish it? ;D

If its holding the right fish, in a heart beat.      You found it by being observant.   GL next week.

We have alot of old lakes.   The original timber standing has eroded.

There is very little vegitation, level fluctuates to much.    Tons of boats docks.   Cedar Creek in Tx for example.    

    To be honest, if the owners didn't hang Xmas trees under the docks for crappie, and fishermens of all types, pleasure and tournament all plant brush.     Whether its under the bridges for crappie or off points for bass.     This added cover helps baitfish and fry survive.     Same issue as mentioned on Conroe and the grass carp.   Once the grass is gone, the fishing will decline most likely.    Why?     Small prey don't have a chance.  No place to hide.

So to be honest, the lakes that have the most brush are most likely lakes that are void of vegitation due to lake levels dropping so fast, and old erroded timber.   No place to concentrate fish.    Next best thing is to plant some in areas that should hold bass.

      So guys got smart, just like the example of the FLW pro who knew the lake would be very low, planted brush where he figured it would come into play.   Hard work paid off.

   

           

       

[zaraspook_dylan2]

I would plant some of my own brushpiles. Once they placed the brushpiles in the public water they are "open to the public". However there is this thing about finding your own fish. It's not very sportsman like to fish a spot that you found by watching or marking where someone else is fishing. Around here we call it GPS pirating. I stay off any of my less known spots during practice times for bigger events because of this.

All that said, the choice is yours and I guess the situation would dictate.

I agree with you, its been put into water thats open to the public. No rules stating you cant fish it.

[CODbasser]

sinking brush is not cheating...cheating is those a-holes that catch fish before a tx and go back and get them in the tx...cheating is those idiots that cant catch a fish off the bed, so they fowl hook them instead...and lets not forget the guys that meet their buddies on the lake during a tx and get fish from them.....sinking brush is hardly cheating...especially compared to the guys that do the crap i just mentioned...i wish they would make laws against it so they could be prosecuted...

They do have laws for that. It's called theft by deception and/or organized crime and depending on how much they steal from a tournament, it could be a felony. Just ask the two guys that are still sitting in jail here in Ky.

I realize that there are laws...but none are specific to fishing tournaments, so alot of the time...those guys get off easy...the team tournament trail i fish caught some guys a few years back..they had photos of them retrieving the fish because someone else found the fish tied up and told the tournament director...the guys were kicked off the trail..but they have won alot of money and i think they even won a truck and a boat in another tourney...they were banned but havent been prosecuted for anything...i just wish there was more that could be done to prevent the cheating...

[GLADES]

I've heard so many "my spot" controversies at weigh ins, that it wears me out.

No one owns a spot, or a brush pile once it's wet. And no one has any more right to fish any spot over another.

Whether you find em on the graph or you saw someone over there some time before and happen to find it, it makes no difference. And anyone who says they have never investigated a spot they saw another fish is either withholding the truth or has a poor memory. ...lol :-X

If a spot or pile is "open" when you arrive, fish it with no guilt.

I agree with you 100%

[Eddie Munster]

One thing I've heard mention is 'find your own fish' or 'do your own work'. I see some hypocrisy in those statements.

Taken for their face value, is shooting the breeze with a local for tips on the lake 'not doing your own work'? Granted not everyone will be talkative but say this local tells you where particular structure is at? Would you not fish that or for those 'purists' would you stop him in mid sentence and say 'la la la; I'm not listening'.

Is it 'finding your own fish' by using advice/tips gained from watching Professional fishermen on t.v. or from talking to them? For instance a pro says 'during this tourney under these conditions we nailed them on this'. You didn't earn that information but surely you'd keep that in mind and try it if you encounter those same conditions, right? Most of us watch the pros for a reason and I hope it's not because you like the way they look. You watch them to learn from them.

What if the guy you're in the boat with starts nailing them on some exotic bait and you're skunked. Would you not switch to something similar to what he's using? I know I would.

I find it hard to believe if you see someone tearing up the fish, that you wouldn't come back after they were gone to see what was under the surface holding those fish. Before anyone replies they NEVER have or NEVER would do that let me get my shoes on so I don't step in anything.

I respect all of you guys/gals except those cheating and that's breaking TOURNEY rules.  

[jax]

If there is anything I have learned from this site, watching the pro's movies, talking with other fisherman, and from my own experience is that finding fish and catching fish are two entirely different things. If I remember correctly KVD stated that he doesn't mind fishing behind others. He will try and throw something that they are not throwing or try the same bait with a different presentation. Just because they fished that spot doesn't mean the found the big one.

Often is it mentioned to never give up to soon?

Unless they have a title to that piece of property then it is fair game to fish. If you feel obliged to let someone else fish it first then that is up to you. But to say you can't fish it makes no sense. Move in and fish it when they leave.

I caught my first 4.5lb yesterday on Patoka lake. The bite was off. Way off. There was a big tourney going on that we were not in. We always let the tourney guys fish thru our areas and tried to stay out of their way. We were just fishing for fun. There was a nice area that alot of guys were complaining should have held fish. The gusy I was fishing with was complaining about the same thing. People went up and back down with no bites. We went up with throwing everything. No bites. People went up and down and around us with no bites.

I finally pulled out my favorite bait. A jointed Shad Rap with an orange belly. I was more playing around with it than anything else. The guy I was fishing with hit the same stump that another guy had just hit a bit earlier with nothing. The same spot alot of guys had already hit. I had hit this spot early with a jig and nothing. I hit the same spot again and nothing. I hit it again from a little bit different angle and WHAM!. Nice big bite. You can only imagine how happy I was and how unhappy all the guys that were in the tourney were when I caught that fish. We proudly backed out of the spot and let the tourney guys have that spot. Again they caught nothing and moved on. We moved on ourselves to make room for more guys.

For me being still relatively new it was my moment in the spot light. Especially since I have never fished a tourney! I caught a nice fish from a high pressure spot. I took KVDs advice and hit the same spot more than once with something different.

I know this was a stump and not a sunk brush pile but to me it still is the same. Lots of people fished it. Just because someone else fished that spot doesn't make it is theirs and doesn't mean they caught all of the fish or the best fish.

It is up to you when you fish it and whether or not you fish it. Not someone else. If you think the fish are there why not fish it?

[jiggerpole]

I have sunk soooo many brush piles I caint remember where they all are. If you find one of them, then you found it. (Fish It) that is why they are there. (To hold Fish) Some will be better than others and some get moved by stormy weather and I never see them again. The big problem I have sometimes is which one to fish, which one to fish. I caint find my own fish because their not mine. ( No really if it's a public lake, then it's public and it's first come first serve.)  I wish everyone would sink some fish habitat so I wont have to. It's hard work. I spent all day Saturday sinking hardwood trees in a small lake. I sink em deep, shallow, in creek channels, on points and some go where they want. Now get out there and sink me some stuff to fish!!! Thanks, in advance.

[CODbasser]

jax....that must have been one crowded lake...even if you and your partner were not fishing the tournament, those guys should not have been on top of you guys like that.. i hate being cut off..(fish and sink brush piles, but dont cut some one off to get to them.)..that last remark was not directed toward you jax...  

[.ghoti.]

I once had a guy try to make me move off a point. He said I was &^#ing fishing for his (*&%ing fish. he found "em in practice, and they were his  *&^ ^%$# fish.

I moved.

right onto the middle of the point, and threw out an anchor.

His fish! ;D ;D ;D

[DawsonH]

OWNED LOL!