Step in here for a debate.....(Fishing....Natural Talent vs. Learned Talent?)

[deadeye32.]

I love this topic of athlete vs. athletic. If you are a professional at any game that involves physical endurance, stamina, or mental toughness, I would consider that person to be an athlete. Now are they athletic? Not nessesarily. I think an athletic person could excel at just about anything they set out to do. JMO

[roadwarrior]

Anyone can become a "good" fisherman, but it requires a natural talent and drive to become a "pro"

I think this statement covers a lot of ground and is applicable to other

activities. Practice, time on the water and desire certainly improve an

anglers success, but even dedicated training under another professional

will not result in becoming a successful pro. "Natural talent" is as much

a part of professional fishing as it is for any other sport.

8-)

[Redhed]

what really chaps my hide is when you fish with a guy ( in my case my cousin) and its the first year you two really fish together on a boat together.  he caught a lot of big bass compared to me. my reason is bc i tried different things that i didnt do in years before (like more crankbaiting and etc) and so therefore i caught less big fish and really it was the worst year of lake fishing i have ever had and perhaps his best..

well his head is very swollen. dont get me wrong he is a good fisherman and very persistant but doesnt it drive you nuts when someone has a good fishing season and then claims themelves as a pro fisher man?. i mean i cant tell him nothing without him throwing that back in my face. he toots his horn and toots it loud. i kinda  hope he has a bad year just to deflate that swollen head. he is the same with deer hunting. i guess he has to toot his horn in order to boost his morale or something. but its extremely annoying >

[slonezp]

Firstly I belive it takes a certain mindset. If you look at any successful athelete, what makes them successful is the desire, drive, and determination to be the best. Football players practicing 5 days a week all day long for 4 months and keeping in shape in the off season, baseball players playing ball almost every day 6 months of the year etc. Fishermen use rods, reels, tackle,and boats as their tools to reach their goals the same way a professional athelete uses his physical atributes to reach theirs. If you have the mindset to be out on the water training every chance you can during good and bad weather conditions. The ability to learn and retain information about baits, patterns, structure etc. Patience to learn the differences in fishing shallow water, deep water, river systems, clear water, stained, etc. Commitment to the sport. If you have all these atributes then the only thing that will hold you back is yourself. My son used to tell me the reason I caught more and bigger fish than he did was because I had the front of the boat. These last 2 years things have changed, because he has changed. He began paying attention to what I've been doing, gained a little more patience and opened his mind up a little. We fish in 2 tournament trails in the Chicago area together and he is becoming an exceptional fisherman. He has a competitive spirit which has helped us place better every year the last 3 years. Me, I just love to fish.

As far as supporting a family I would probably become a professional fisherman first. You will need to focus on the sport and it may make your relationship suffer.

[Redhed]

Firstly I belive it takes a certain mindset. If you look at any successful athelete, what makes them successful is the desire, drive, and determination to be the best. Football players practicing 5 days a week all day long for 4 months and keeping in shape in the off season, baseball players playing ball almost every day 6 months of the year etc. Fishermen use rods, reels, tackle,and boats as their tools to reach their goals the same way a professional athelete uses his physical atributes to reach theirs. If you have the mindset to be out on the water training every chance you can during good and bad weather conditions. The ability to learn and retain information about baits, patterns, structure etc. Patience to learn the differences in fishing shallow water, deep water, river systems, clear water, stained, etc. Commitment to the sport. If you have all these atributes then the only thing that will hold you back is yourself. My son used to tell me the reason I caught more and bigger fish than he did was because I had the front of the boat. These last 2 years things have changed, because he has changed. He began paying attention to what I've been doing, gained a little more patience and opened his mind up a little. We fish in 2 tournament trails in the Chicago area together and he is becoming an exceptional fisherman. He has a competitive spirit which has helped us place better every year the last 3 years. Me, I just love to fish.

As far as supporting a family I would probably become a professional fisherman first. You will need to focus on the sport and it may make your relationship suffer.

thats awesome bud! congrats to you and your son. keep in mind you set the example and he is falling in line, great job

[stratos201]

I have always thought if I could spend as much time on the water as the Pros that I could compete with them, but in fishing more and more I think it is a lot mental and natural ability. I had a good friend who could catch and figure out what to do on any lake to catch fish and he spent no more time on the water than I did. I fish tornaments with my son(started at age 8) and because I have made him think more about what he is doing instead of just following what others do he has became an excellant fisherman and loves to beat dear old dad(which he does alot now). I think making him use his mind as well as ability has helped him (he also does well in draw tournaments and beats out his boater alot) So in my opinion not only do you need the time on the water you need some natural talent and the  mental makeup to make it as a Pro fisherman.I also feel Pro fishermen are athletes also.

[etommy28]

Personally I feel it is 80 percent learned and 15 pure natural talent and 5 percent luck. just my thoughts.

[Tokyo Tony]

In my opinion, the most successful pro anglers are the smartest, most athletic, and most hard-working individuals amongst the competition, just as with any other activity. Someone with a room-temperature IQ who throws like a girl has no chance at becoming a pro bass fisherman.

On any given day, as in poker, luck is a factor. But in the long run, there's no such thing as luck - everyone gets the same cards, so to speak, in the long run. The more intelligent and learned anglers constantly put themselves in position to get lucky, but that requires skill. I love the quote by Ben Hogan, I believe: "The more I practice, the luckier I get." :-)

[farmpond1]

There are a lot of people who, with enough persistance and hard work, can become pretty good fishermen-perhaps even outstanding fishermen.  But there is something not quite tangible which separates the best fishermen from the rest of us.  They just know how to put it all together in ways where most of us are still scratching our heads (or are at least 2 steps behind).  This isn't to say everyone who has this "genius" will become a "pro."  It still requires a lot of work and a love for the game.

As to how athletic a person has to be...Well, if endurance is a sign of athleticism, than pro tournament fishermen must be athletes.  I'm tuckered out even after a modest day of fishing in nice weather.

[ww2farmer]

At the pro level most all of the anglers "have it", the "it" beeing something I don't think a single one of us could type out and describe. Sure some skills are learned, mainly the mechanics, but the instincts and mental awarness of what's going on around you and  knowing when and where to apply your "learned" talents is part of what having "it" is all about.

Go to any local tournament, there will always be a few guys with "it" as well. Most will be clueless. It's far easier to spot the clueless guys.

The ones who always blame something other than themselves for poor results, the ones who always ask the wrong questions. rather than ask when/where/why, they are fixated on things like lure color, and running over over they lake after 10mins of not getting bit.

[MitchIsFishin]

x10 what Catt & ww2farmer said. Just MHO.

[SuskyDude]

I feel although some have a knack for it, the vast majority of fishing is learned.

Oh, and and anglers as athletes?  : Lets not get carried away.

I know guys who have the "endurance" to fish all day, but fall down wheezing after running ten yards. That ain't no athlete. If you can excell at your sport as you smoke a cigarette and drink a beer, I've got a hard time calling that sport "athletic." ;D

I really feel that the "endurance" that is required to fish all day is more mental than physical.

[thetr20one]

"Anyone can cook but, only the fearless can be great" Chef Gusteau Ratatouille.

I had a whole story wrote out and the page expired so I will try and shorten it up. IMHO it takes more than natural talent and learned talent. Passion for what you are doing and patience also is huge. I have always been able to cast well and have spent countless hours on the water. With the exception of last year I have spent every spare moment of the last 20 years on the water. Like ww2farmer says some people just have "it". I feel I do and it took natural talent, learned talent, passion, patience and time to get "it". I played baseball,soccer and wrestled but not one of them had me like bass fishing. And once I got into tourneys it also filled my competitive nature.    

[Manigotapee]

I love this topic of athlete vs. athletic. If you are a professional at any game that involves physical endurance, stamina, or mental toughness, I would consider that person to be an athlete. Now are they athletic? Not nessesarily. I think an athletic person could excel at just about anything they set out to do. JMO

Couldn't have said it better myself.....

[mase088]

I think the keys to becoming a pro in this sport is patience, knowledge, money, luck, and most importantly PRACTICE. I think that it requires a lot more determination and natural talent to become a pro in most other sports such as football. It takes a great deal of determination to put yourself in pain day in and day out while working out and practicing, getting injured and the like. You will definitely be more motivated to go back out and fish after placing bad in a tournament then you will to play football again after having a losing season. You got to have some real determination to do that.

But like I said, the most important thing I think is practice. Your mind is not limited quite like your body. You may never be 6'3" 240 lbs and bench press 550 regardless of how hard you try, but you can learn just about everything there is to know through research and practice.

[FishingPirate]

This might have been said but: You HAVE to be able to get in the "zone." Iaconelli mentions this in his book. He says something along the lines of when he's in the zone, things happen. I believe in that 100%.

[princecraft papa]

practice, practice, practice..& then practice some more,practice untill you develope a level of confidence that will allow you to "will" the fish into the boat!

"practoce...practice....are we talking about practoce?"

[-HAWK-]

This might have been said but: You HAVE to be able to get in the "zone." Iaconelli mentions this in his book. He says something along the lines of when he's in the zone, things happen. I believe in that 100%.

This is very true. The ability to enter a Focused Zone, and block out everything else plays a large part in a fisherman's success. Some people have this trait, some people dont. But then you also have the Practice/ Experience aspect. There is no Natural Ability to substitue for hardcore effort put into learning the fish out on the lake for hours and hours. I would say it's 50/50

[Eddie Munster]

Bowlers, golfers, fishermen, etc...may have athletic looking bodies but they're not athletes

Tiger Woods, Gregg Norman, Jack Nicklaus aren't athletes, just to name a few? Nicklaus played college basketball before he turned to golf, Norman a surfer, and Tiger Woods would probably excel at most sports. I doubt that most pro fisherman could even walk 18 holes 4 days in a row on hilly courses. Before and after their rounds they are hitting tons of balls and most work out an hour or 2 a day. You bet they are athletes.

I went back and highlighted in red what I posted. Just because they have an atheletic body does not make the activity they're doing atheletic or them an athelete. My wife has several friends who work out yet don't work outside the home. Are they stay at home atheletes? Cooking and doing laundry the next Pro Series we'll see on ESPN?  ;D

The problem is that some people think golf, bowling, fishing, etc are sports; they're not. If you can be OBESE and still be the best at something, it's not a sport and the participants (regardless of whether they are in shape or not) are NOT atheletes. Craig Stadler, Phil Mickelson, etc have won majors while being way out of shape.

[Catt]

One can practice the techniques all they want for as long as they want and still not be productive on a consistent level.

Bass fishing at the next level takes

An understanding of the behavior of the prey the bass are feeding on

An understanding of the behavior of the bass itself

An understanding of a constantly environment in which the bass and prey live.

An understanding of structure, breaks, breaks lines & how bass and their prey relate to them.

The above 4 elements is where the weekend warrior stops

Money has nothing to do with it; it does not take a $45,000 bass boat or $1,500 rod & reel combos to understand the 4 key elements listed above.

Being listed in the annals of Bass Master or FLW is also not a requirement

[I Love BassResource]

One can practice the techniques all they want for as long as they want and still not be productive on a consistent level.

Bass fishing at the next level takes

An understanding of the behavior of the prey the bass are feeding on

An understanding of the behavior of the bass itself

An understanding of a constantly environment in which the bass and prey live.

An understanding of structure, breaks, breaks lines & how bass and their prey relate to them.

The above 4 elements is where the weekend warrior stops

Money has nothing to do with it; it does not take a $45,000 bass boat or $1,500 rod & reel combos to understand the 4 key elements listed above.

Being listed in the annals of Bass Master or FLW is also not a requirement

 Spot on... but

"Being listed in the annals of Bass Master or FLW is also not a requirement "

IMHO

 I think those people(most) listed in FLW/BASS, meet the criteria you've listed above.  So again imho, they a reflect the very best anglers in our sport.

 I like to read posts about making specific adjustments.. e.g. "match the hatch", "color", "bait/blade size", "boat positioning", etc....

 

 A vast majority of what I would consider "great" anglers, will voice that doing some of the above isn't a real issue in their bass fishing process.  

 I think what sets most pro's apart from "great" anglers, is their ability to make those micro adjustments to their presentation or pattern.  Those small adjustments may not make or break an outing, but they typically translate into pounds, ounces, an extra fish, a kicker, etc..  

 Having the knowledge to make those minor adjustments on they fly can account for an 18lb bag instead of your local pro's 17lb bag.

 Most of what we do to trick a fish is done through learning an array of techniques.  With practice and repetition, we fine tune those techniques so that we now become competent, maybe even competitive on a higher level.

 I believe the very best anglers in the world are those who have at least some natural talent, but more importantly its those who never stop refining their abilities, understanding, and techniques used in relation to fish and fishing.

As far as "true" athletes...

IMHO this could get beat to death as the definition of an athlete doesn't always have to translate into an athletic individual. Just look at Mark Davis, the dude is a major stick, but I doubt he could run the length of a football field.

[WRB]

Just about anyone with an interest in bass fishing can become a good bass fishermen with help from a good mentor.

Few good bass fishermen can become a professional bass fishermen and earn his/her living from bass fishing. Fishing talent doesn't equal good marketing skills and the talent to promote yourself or products.

The most natural talented bass pro I know is Aaron Martens. Aaron is also very shy, a poor speaker and self promoter. Aaron has worked very hard to overcome his handicaps, his bass fishing skills are excellent.

Both Don Iovino and Dee Thomas are a contrast to Aaron in natural skills and physical ability. Don and Dee are both smart, good self promoters and marketers that tuned a specific bass fishing skill to become well known professionals in our sport. It is a stretch to consider Don or Dee athletes; however 3 day tournament aren't easy, even for the most fit and both of these men have done that for decades.

Bass fishing skills can be taught, your physical skills, personality and drive to succeed, have limitations that may require training to become a successful bass fishermen.

WRB

[done]

And to add the posts here on ability and having passion for the sport. You need one other crucial "skill", and that us work ethic.

I know of a lot of folks who are great at music, programming, art, sports, etc who have a passion and tons of ability. They fail miserably when they realize that even in a job you LOVE to do, there are still parts to it that you have to work and do things that may not be your favorite.

I had a relative who is an awesome musician, when he played in front of a crowd he owned them. However, his career as a musician never came off the ground because when he needed to go to clubs and get  on the lineup, call promoters, pay bills, practice over and over and over again, he would not do it cause he did not like it.

I can imagine if we got a pro on this discussion they would throw up a dozen things about pro-fishing that would fall into that category. IMO, that is one of the most critical areas in any profession.