The 25lb Bass

[paul.]

i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that texas could produce a world record.  texas certainly seems to try harder than anyone else to have a quality fishery for trophy bass.  it still amazes me that the big bass production we've seen in cali has been purely by accident through the decision to stock trout many years ago.    

could trout survive in texas waters well enough to become a viable trophy bass food source?  or could they survive at all in texas?  trout are cold water fish and texas is awfully hot.  but i don't know.  i'm asking.  texas has seemed to place a lot of emphasis on the stocking of fish with quality genetics, but that seems to be only a part of the equation.  the key seems to be in stocking adequate food for them munch on.  i guess what i'm asking is whether it's a quality or quantity issue with the forage in texas.   is an 8 inch trout really that much better of a food source than an 8 inch shad or and 8 inch bluegill?  are trout easier for the bass to catch?  these are things i've always wondered.  

i've also wondered if texas has any plans to cut back or alter the tournament fishing there.  a few more big fish kills and it will set things back big time in some of the better lakes over there.  i can't imagine they would change anything though because tournaments seem to be big business over there.    

[Boogey Man]

Crankenstein,

Trout was stocked in So. Cal for recreational purposes.

It was later they thought something was wrong with the

the bass in the lakes because they were getting fat.Im sure

it didn't take long for them to figure out the bass were eating

the trout.

During trout season, on hodges the trout anglers out number the bass anglers 8/1

Thanks, that's something I've always been curious about.

[WRB]

WRB for your information

ShareLunker Archives Lake Fork

02/28/1999 Flo O'Brain 16.63

04/04/1999 Terry Dale Garner 15.17

03/22/2002 Jim Harrell 16.12

03/22/2002 Johnny Six 15.65

02/21/2006 Billy Pfeil 15.5

03/10/2007 Michael Gray 15.32

I wouldn't call it past its prime when you can't determine if it's the lake, the anglers, or the bass. At 27,300 acres its a little harder location 1% of the bass population than it would be in a 70 acre pond.

paul great observation on Trophy Hunters while I have never been around true trophy bass hunters I have been around some amazing Deer, Bear, Duck/Geese, Elk, & Alligator hunters. To be a trophy hunter after any species you must be willing to spend an above average amount of time in the field because becoming a successful trophy hunter can not taught in a class room. I don't think it can be taught at all; think it's something you're born with, a second sense if you will.

From the above stats I would agree that Fork is still a potentail giant bass fishery and may be able to break the Texas state record someday. Texas has several lakes that are producing similar size bass. The California delta has several hundred miles of fishable water with giant bass, a few 18+ lbs size bass have been caught there. Northern CA is producing some giants; 17 to 18 lb bass in there larger reservoirs. The 1% bass population is more like .0001% or less, giant bass are extremely rare fish and difficult to catch 10 months of the year.

WRB

[Catt]

One of the key problems in regards to the food source in Texas Lakes is the huge amounts of available cover that the food source can hide in.

I was told by TPWD biologist that when selecting an area to release fingerlings for stocking purposes they would select area with vast amount of thick cover because it improved the survivability rate. The benefits from this was two fold; one the survivability rate of the bass and second was the bass would quickly become accustom to hunting prey in this environment.

The next key problem for Texas Lake lies in their shear size with Fork being relatively small when compared to other Lunker lakes in the state. Now if those 0001% or less numbers of trophy bass are that difficult to find in tiny Cali lakes how much harder will in be in lakes of this size with vast amount of extremely dense cover.

Amistad Reservoir: 64,900 acres

Falcon Reservoir: 83,654 acres

Fork: 27,300 acres

Sam Rayburn Reservoir: 114,500 acres

Toledo Bend Reservoir: 181,600 acres

[Mattlures]

I have posted this 100 times but I will do it again. The biggest difference between Cali and everywhere else is we let our giants go so they become word class fish. This story about Dottie is the ultimate example of how that works. Mike caught her at 20 12 and released her. Do you think sh would have beeen released in TX or FL if sombody caught a 20lber there. Nope she would have been kept. Not only did Mike release her but then Jed released her at 21 11 and look what hapened......She grew to 25lbs. This is the biggest difference in Cali and the other possible staes. Untill they release all thier giant bass they will probably never produce a 20lber. This type of thing is common place out here in Cali. I honestly dont think a single person has asked me if I released my 17 lber. You know why? becuase they dont have to ask. Its a given that she went back. Its the same thing with all the trophy hunters. Do you think Mike keeps his fish? Of course not. Ok now answer this. If I 15-20lb bass was caught in Tx or Fl what are the chances of the angler just taking pics weighing her and putting her back?Probably extremely low. Its going to the SAL program or on a wall. TX cant get out of its own way. Thier motto should be "lets grow them big but take them out before they get too big"

[flechero]

At the end of spawning season, the ShareLunker will be returned to the angler for live release, or the angler may donate it permanently to the program

I don't know what the current trend is but the majority of them used to get released back to the lake they came from.

[Mattlures]

we have discussed this many times. They dont all live. They dont all get put back. When your talking about the smallest percentage of the fish population and lose a percentage of that it has a huge impact on the very upper end class of bass. Think about it, in Tx an 16 lb bass is probably 1 in a million. If 3 of these are turned in each year and 1 dies and one is kept at the SAL program then only one is released. now its a 1 in 3 million fish. The SAL program is great for improving genetics but I am sure TX has all the genetics it needs by now. The SAL is is the worst thing for producing world class fish.

[tallydude]

I don't know about TX, but I agree with Matt in regard to Florida. I've been shocked by the amount of fishermen keeping their trophy fish here in north Florida. South Florida's fishermen are much more C&R in my opinion, but if you listen to guys like Doug Hannon, the big fish in this state will come from north of Okeechobee.

Just recently Olebiker reported on a guide- a guide!- keeping a 14lb fish out of Talquin. If you want to break records, it's bad policy. But if you want to be an idiot and punish the fishery for its success, go ahead.

[flechero]

I don't doubt that some bass that TPWD accepts die... but to assume there is no immediate or delayed mortality amongst CA bass released would be crazy.

None of us can say with certainty what the percentages are, but I think that the sharelunker program has good success... or else the program would have a black eye.

[KU_Bassmaster.]

Last time Matt posted about the Share-a-lunker program it got me thinking.  That was really the first thing I had ever read opposing the program and I think I agree with him more and more to a degree.  I think the program has been GREAT for producing "trophy" bass, but what has it really done for "world class" bass.

I will be the first to say I am no expert in genetics, lake management, etc, but IMO the current program has achieved it's objective.  Maybe some modifications need to be made ...... cap the numbers donated per year, cap the number per lake, create a "slot limit" for donations, maybe run the program every 2-5 years ..... who knows.

BTW - This has been a very entertaining, informational and eye opening thread.

[Mattlures]

flechero of course there will be some delayed mortalty, but for the most part it is a verry small group of guys who consistantly catch these big fish. These same guys are the ones who rarley overhandle the fish. They catch them take some pictures and release them. Most are not even brought back to the ranger. The ones that are are let go right afterwards. They are not held waiting for SAL to pick them up. Dottie was a rare instance where the guys had to wait for the F&G but even then sh was put on a long stringer and put in deeper water while they waited, plus she was at world record weight.  It is not by accident that these huge fish are caught more then once. I dont have the answer concerning the SAL program. I think its a cool program, I would love to have my name submitted in there a bunch of times and have a room full of replica mounts but the evidence shows its not working if the goal is 20lb bass. It seems to be working great for 10+lbers though.

Most bass fisherman have a warped sence of conservation when it comes to catch and releas. they let all the little ones go and they keep a fish of a lifetime. This is absolutley the worst thing you can do to a lake if your wanting to grow big bass. You should keep the little ones and increase the food supply and let go ALL of the big bass. its pretty simple but soo many bass fisherman do the exact opposite  >

[Catt]

I understand your point Matt and it's a point well taken but the Share-A-Lunker program also spawns those big bass in captivity and then they release that gene pool into numerous lakes. This greatly improves the gene pool in every body of water where they are released since there is no need to import Florida bass for stocking programs. The percentage of anglers who actually ask for their bass back is extremely low leaving the care of the bass in total control of TWPD who do an outstanding job. The Share-A-Lunker program will take longer to grow bass in the 20# plus range but instead of having a small portion of bass in this range you will have a larger population in a Varity of lakes.

You Cali boys can hold the record for now

[Sin_City702]

They found a 25 pounder lake Casitas in CA...guy foul hooked it so it didn't count... talk about intelligence huh?

[flechero]

Matt,

I don't disagree with you, I was only pointing out that many of the SAL's do get released... just not until after they have spawned in captivity.

And obviously, it hasn't produced any 20 lb fish yet, but then again, we didn't catch any 20's in the pre-SAL years either. To get a few giant fish, the statistics say we need a great many "big" fish... the SAL program is certainly helping us move that direction.

For any flaws the program has, it's a lot better than no program, IMO.

[WRB]

When you step back and look at giant bass, Florida bass to be specific, one factor comes into play; these bass are geneically wired to eat large bait fish; golden shiners.

Planted rainbow trout are very similar to golden shiners and where legal, golden shiners are excellent giant bass bait fish. The ideal bait for these bass is long and slender; like both trout and golden shiners. Threadfin shad are high protein bait fish, it takes sereval shad to equal one larger bait fish. Crappie are a little easier for bass to eat, bluegill are a lot more difficult. Fresh water smelt or hitch are good giant bass prey fish and one reason the CA delta and NorCal lakes have developed good giant bass populations.

Prey must be both plantiful and accessible year around to the bass to attain giant growth potential. The bass must also have a safe sancturary to retreat to and avoid angler pressure. The giant bass are extremely vulnerable to catch and keep from weekend anglers, the primary factor to boom and bust giant bass cycles. The population reaches a point where they are targeted relentlessly and population crashes. The high motality rate for giant bass occurs because of excessive handling; pictures are taken and the bass is kept in a livewell too long before being released, that is simply human nature.

It's been over 15 year since I have put a giant bass in a livewell or haul one back to the marina to offically weigh. However it's been that long since I caught my last PB, otherwise I would be transporting the bass back to the marina like everyone else.

WRB

[Jaheff]

So Matt,

What is your take on DVL? I know it was probably

the most advanced fishery built to date.The growth

rates were unbelievable.

Where does it stand as a record bass lake?

WRB say's no cause of striper.Whats your take?

[WRB]

CA used to have opening day for trout May 1st and bass June 1st, about 50 years ago. Today we have year around bass fishing. Since I grew up not bed fishing and thought that bed fishing wasn't ethical, I don't bed fish. It's a legal practice within the regulations, good sportsmanship, that is an issue each individual must make.

WRB

[roadwarrior]

** Moderator Note **

Let's stay "generally" on topic. This isn't about the ethics of bed fishing

or how much "fishing seasons" suck.

-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior

Global Moderator

[Mattlures]

i agree with WRB that striper will prevent DVL from being the giant fish factory that it could be. However this will take some time and I think that the first few year classes of bass have a chance at reaching 20+lbs but because of the stripers there will be a small window of time before the stripers keep the top end weight down

[Jaheff]

Thanks Matt,

DVL took some of the fish that was in hodges-jerks

I have had some of my best fishing times at hodges.

DVL is my dream lake tho-only been there twice.

[5bass]

For any flaws the program has, it's a lot better than no program.

Keith, if you dont mind, I'm going to forward this quote to the Virginia Game Dept., they desperately need some guidance.

[paul.]

just noticed there were some posts on the previous page (mine was one of 'em) that aren't there anymore.  what happened? :-/

[5bass]

just noticed there were some posts on the previous page (mine was one of 'em) that aren't there anymore. what happened? :-/

Not sure paul, I haven't seen anything that needed to be removed.

[UrbanRedneck]

Not trying to offend anyone but here's a question I've never heard regarding Dottie; The type of fishing that was required to catch her seems extreme, even for bass fisherman. You have to line up early to get in before they shut the gates, pay your (I believe) $30 fee, focus on this one fish only and spend how many hours in pursuit of her. I realize this represents the extreme range of fishing behavior but frankly, it kinda takes the fun out of it. Maybe we need to step back a little bit for a fresh perspective on fishing. Isn't it about spending time on the water, enjoying the freedom of fishing, having fun and learning a little something on each trip?

Landing that fish was a real accomplishment, one that any angler could take pride in but jeeze louise, are we putting too fine a point on it?

OK, I'm done. A handsome facsimile of this rant can be yours by calling........

Um, yeah, I dont think those guys would ever say what they were doing was actually fun.  Not even almost.

Texas will never, ever come close to the world record bass in our lifetimes.  But the SAL program is awesome.  Could you imagine what Cali could produce if they had a similar program?

Certain types of protein are more conducive to good growth.  My understanding is that trout flesh provides for the best growth rates, and for producing stored fat, when compared to species such as shad and bluegill.  So without trout there is no way, IMHO, a lake can produce a WRB.

[WRB]

Thanks Matt,

DVL took some of the fish that was in hodges-jerks

I have had some of my best fishing times at hodges.

DVL is my dream lake tho-only been there twice.

The initially planted FLMB in DVL will attain maxium growth becuase the bass and stripers started at the same time. Stripers are very aggressive fish that take over the outside feeding zones, the LMB must move inside. DVL doesn't have a lot of inside cover or ambush areas. The stripers dominate the trout plants and the hold over trout become big fast in DVL, too big for bass prey.

If you are targeting a giant bass at DVL, get there now!

WRB