The 25lb Bass

[Mattlures]

WRB that is a 12oz difference.

Paul Mike did find a big flaoter soo it wasnt nessasaraly lying. He was leading people into thinking the bass had died. he was also hoping to save the world record bass club from going under. Lyods of London Insurred them for the prize for a world record and they would not reniew the polocy after Jed caught her her at 22.7 / 21.11

Its soo competetive out here its rediculous. The guys in the know are very secrative and only share info ON PURPOSE or with thier closest buddies who they trust. Then there are a lot of wannabees who claim to catch alot of big fish when they might have caught 1 or 2. It can be difficult to weed thru the BS. I have a very close nit group and they know if they talk outside the group they wont get the goods anymore.

I have had both Mike and John send me to fish. I have yet to pay them back because everytime I find something they are there. They have sothern Ca wired. Maybe this year I can put them on some fish.

[Catt]

Rat poison is 98% corn meal it's the 2% that will kill ya; a lie is about 90% truth

I totally understand being secretive there are some people I would trust with my honey holes while others I simply tell them they better have a fast a _ _ boat cause I do!

[Jaheff]

Great Thread!!!

Great Post Pual on the coming full circle.

Matt,Great fact checks and keeping it honest. The only thing

i don't agree with you on is I thought Jed is a nice guy.I met

him twice off water and saw him at the lake a few times. He

always had time for small talk with us dumb dock fisherman.

He also always had a smile on his face.

Now to stir the pot....

The next world record will come out of Diamond Valley Lake

Just my opinion and we all have them....

[mattm]

guess i can see why mac and jed took the lie as an insult.  because long's timing (after dickerson caught the fish) kinda/sorta insinuates that dickerson might have done something to kill the fish.  mishandled or hurt it somehow.  after all, he was the last one to catch it before long concocted the story.

Paul,

That is what I thought as well, but then I noticed the article about the floater was nearly 6 months after the catch and realease by Jed.  Surely, he didn't think Mike was fingering him for it 6 months later.

[WRB]

WRB that is a 12oz difference.

Paul Mike did find a big flaoter soo it wasnt nessasaraly lying. He was leading people into thinking the bass had died. he was also hoping to save the world record bass club from going under. Lyods of London Insurred them for the prize for a world record and they would not reniew the polocy after Jed caught her her at 22.7 / 21.11

Its soo competetive out here its rediculous. The guys in the know are very secrative and only share info ON PURPOSE or with thier closest buddies who they trust. Then there are a lot of wannabees who claim to catch alot of big fish when they might have caught 1 or 2. It can be difficult to weed thru the BS. I have a very close nit group and they know if they talk outside the group they wont get the goods anymore.

I have had both Mike and John send me to fish. I have yet to pay them back because everytime I find something they are there. They have sothern Ca wired. Maybe this year I can put them on some fish.

Hmmmm 22.70 - 21.11 = 1.59 lbs. I'm geeting old and was watching the Lakers game, but the numbers look right to me.

DVL is an excellent fishery, however also has a striper population and that factor isn't good for giant bass beyond the initail planted adult fish.

Butch Brown may be the trophy fisherman to watch this year. Butch is on top of his game and you couldn't meet anyone more helpful and honest.

Don't confuse staying focused with ignoring people on purpose. Trophy bass fisherman will usually chat with people off the water at the end of the day.

WRB

PS; best big bass day so far in 2009 and I'm working!!!!!!!

[Mattlures]

I know there is a difference between 22.7 and 22 lbs 7oz.but I meant oz.  Ok how about this

The first time it weighed 22lbs 7oz. the next time when it was weighedit weighed 21lbs 11 oz. I am almost posative these weights are correct.

All I can say about those guys is, the local opinion of them is not good. They may act friendy to the dock fisherman but try cruising around looking for fish durring the spawn. I dont know them, I have only interacted with them on the water and they will do anything to get a boat or a spot first. I have had them cut in front of me while acting as a team in seperate boat talking to each other on thier cells to make sure I couldnt see any freash water. I dont even dislike them, I just try and keep the facts straight.

[flechero]

What makes no sense or at the very least is mud in CA's eye is that a DFG person needs to be at the weigh in...  As long as there are witnesses, and the scale is current in its certification, what's the rub?  Having to wait for hours on end seemingly cost them one world record already.  

I haven't seen a certified scale yet that weighs different with a DFG or TPWD employee present.  The only time I've seen a discrepancy is when no witnesses are present.   :

[flechero]

I have had them cut in front of me while acting as a team in seperate boat talking to each other on thier cells to make sure I couldnt see any freash water

That's pretty sorry, no matter who does it or why.   :-/

[arul]

Who cares about who was on the spot first.  The fact that these guys HONESTLY noted a fould hook, when they could have easily said it was mouth hooked, makes them beyond reproach in my eyes.  A truly noble gesture.

If that 8 million dollar bounty was still on the table, fould hooked or not, I am claiming the money...

Make sure to watch the NGC re-air if you missed it.  A great show!  The footage of feeding bass was SAWEET!

[arul]

That is when you take it outside the realm of good sportsmanship and it gets outta line.No matter how you want to put it pressuring and paying people off spots for a shot at the record is over the line.

You can't paint ugly nice.

Dude- what shows BETTER sportsmanship than coming clean on a foul hook?  That took true honor, way beyond and above paying off for a spot.  You ever pay a guide to scope out a spot for you????  You ever been in a tourney and ask a local to move off your spot???  Happens everyday, and there is nothing wrong with it.  Get off your high horse.  

Give these guys the respect they deserve for coming clean on a foul hook and the passion and obsession for the sport they displayed.

[roadwarrior]

Let's not forget, they had drawn an audience. I'm not saying they

would have done anything else, but the situation was a little different

than sometimes described.

8-)

[paul.]

interesting observations about the mentality of these guys. i guess working in the field of mental health, the psychology of the true trophy hunter has always intrigued me. it takes something special to do what these guys do day in and day out. whether that something special is a bad thing or a good thing, everyone has to judge for themselves i guess.

but i have seen time and again what big fish will do to people. so much is written about what we do to these fish. so little is written about what they do to us. the documentary that started this whole thread, and other things i have read about these guys, portray them as totally obsessed and possessed in the pursuit of big bass. it's one thing to try to schedule your fishing around your life, quite another to schedule your life around your fishing. i have read about guys sacrificing untold amounts of money, marriages, health, friends, jobs, etc. for just one more cast. the closest thing i can compare it to is a drug of some kind. they give up so much to chase the dream, a dream with absolutely no promises or guarantees. they become distrusting of other fishermen, sometimes people in general, almost to the point of paranoia. they develop strange notions of entitlement to and ownership of a wild creature that belongs to no one. they worry so much about the fish they don't catch, they can't fully appreciate or enjoy the ones they do. to the casual observer, these guys are absolutely crazy doing what they do. the trophy hunters themselves would probably tell you they'd go crazy if they didn't.

that is why i could never do the trophy hunting thing full time. i will never be anything more that a wannabe. sometimes honestly i don't like what it does to me. for every day of triumph, there are untold days of frustration. the high never lasts as long as it did the time before. all of us who are serious about it are at least to some degree different folks in april than we are in december. look what happens to some folks' attitude here on the board when we can't fish if you need further proof.

sometimes you fool yourself into thinking you can jump into this trophy hunting game and nothing will change. then everything changes. it comes with a price.

then again, maybe i'm just trying to keep you away from my fish.

     

[WRB]

Who cares about who was on the spot first. The fact that these guys HONESTLY noted a fould hook, when they could have easily said it was mouth hooked, makes them beyond reproach in my eyes. A truly noble gesture.

If that 8 million dollar bounty was still on the table, fould hooked or not, I am claiming the money...

Make sure to watch the NGC re-air if you missed it. A great show! The footage of feeding bass was SAWEET!

I wasn't there so can only state what other folks who were there said; witnesses on a nearby dock watched this catch go down and they reported to the ranger that the bass was snagged with a white jig hooked into the bass's back, just in front of the dorsal fin. The information was not voluntary. After that report, the bass was  released. There are more stories about giant bass catches than you can imagine, some true, some false, some outright lies.

WRB

[Jaheff]

Hey Paul man i like your way of thinking.

Did you read the book Sowbelly?

If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"

thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about

Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two

to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.

You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their

life.But think of how much time they spent out there?

800+days for one fish. WOW

[paul.]

Hey Paul man i like your way of thinking.

Did you read the book Sowbelly?

If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"

thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about

Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two

to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.

You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their

life.But think of how much time they spent out there?

800+days for one fish. WOW

thanks man.  i have only read small parts of the book while at the bookstore.  i don't own it.  i've thought seriously about buying it though.  monte burke, the guy who wrote it, was on the national geographic documentary.  

you are totally right in saying it's a game.  a very tough one to play, and one only a select and gifted few can master.  matt, wrb, jay, fish chris, and some others on here have lived through it.  i'm sure they could tell us some stories that would be almost unbelievable.  

these guys have a skill that i can only dream of.  a good fisherman can pattern the fish.  a great one can pattern the fish and the other fisherman.  

[Mattlures]

They didnt voluntarily give up the info that the fish was foul hooked. After they caught the fish they went out away from shore and talked ror 15-30 minutes. This is when they say they called their lawyer. Then they came back to the fishing dock which was farther away from the boat dock where the watchers were. Once to got to the dock and weighed the fish on of the guys said he knew they snagged it and they said what are you talking about. He said I saw the fish with the jig in its back and I saw it come up in the net sideways. Then (Ibelieve it was Mike Winn) said just let it go and they did.

This is not hearsay. this is how it went down. I dont know their intentions or what was going through thier minds when all this happened so its all speculation as to if they were going to try and claim it was caught legaly.

[mattm]

Interesting Matt.  Thanks for sharing.  I've been trying to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, but its becoming harder and harder to be on their side.  It was wrong to try and pretend the fish wasn't foul hooked even for a second if it was, it was wrong to allow the documentary to air saying they found the fish.  Plus, I'm like 99% sure that I read an account of this story saying that they found dottie, backed way off and cast a swimbait at her.  Dottie didn't move for ever and they just sat there doing everything they could to not move.  And then finally they saw Dottie move to the bait, thought she took it and set the hook only to find out they had foul hooked her.  Have you ever heard anything like this Matt?  I'm almost certain of it.  These guys accomplished a great thing. I don't understan a need for all the shadiness.

[mattm]

I have looked everywher for that story and can't find it.  I know it was written cause I can almost see the article in my head, but it must of been about another fish b/c I can't find it anywhere associated with Dottie.  I should of just kept my mouth shut.

I still don't understand why not just be on the up and up about everything from the beginning.  It would lead to a lot less doubting.

[WRB]

Hey Paul man i like your way of thinking.

Did you read the book Sowbelly?

If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"

thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about

Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two

to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.

You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their

life.But think of how much time they spent out there?

800+days for one fish. WOW

The bass that got me started "in pursuit of giant bass" was 14.7 lbs back in 1969 at Lower Otay, the lake record for 3 days. Try 40 years targeting giant bass, so far.

WRB

[Tucson]

You ever been in a tourney and ask a local to move off your spot??? Happens everyday, and there is nothing wrong with it. Get off your high horse.

Uh-oh. I've got a real problem with this.

[Muddy]

Happened twice to me, last year. Both times a tourny guy pulled into a spot i was working and asked me to move, I told them my standard answer I got here first, i ain't bothering you so do not bother me. It is not right I find it rude. Neither guy tried to push me off the spot, i guess they knew better

My experience with Tourny fisherman has been 99$ positive and a few have asked me what jig, etc I was using and they really are pleasant and knowledgable fellas for the most part

ps I do not own a high horse i have a 12 foot tinny that I fish from

[Mattlures]

mattm please dont think that they ever said that they didnt foul hook it. They never tried to claim it was caught in the mouth. All I am saying is they didnt just give up the info that is was snagged. They didnt lie about it. We can only speculate what they were thinking and what thier intentions were. There were wittnesses so even if they had bad intentions they could not have gotten away with anything. Plus it is possible that they had no intentions of trying to claim she was caught legaly. If inocnet untill proven giulty then they are absolutley inocent becuase they in fact never lied about where she was hooked. You can form your own opinion.

Now as for purposly snagging the fish. It is my opinion it was an accident and here is why. the fish was caught in the morning. They had all day to get her. They knew she was the fish. They were being watched. She was staying in the bed and letting them fish for her. I would think they would not try to snag her in those conditions.

Again I only know what I read and heard and talked to people who were there. There is no way to know what they were thinking or what thier intentions were.

[mattm]

Once to got to the dock and weighed the fish on of the guys said he knew they snagged it and they said what are you talking about. He said I saw the fish with the jig in its back and I saw it come up in the net sideways. Then (Ibelieve it was Mike Winn) said just let it go and they did.

Sorry, but the what are you talking about, and just let it go comment shows a pretty clear intent in my book.  They could of easily been hoping nobody saw, noticed or had the balls to say something.  I to doubt they did it on purpose.  My point is if they were totally honest up front there would be less doubters.  Why give anyone an excuse.  I've always thought these guys should have the record, but now learning this and the 1/2 truth about finding the fish makes me question it.

[mattm]

Posted by: Tucson Posted on: Today at 5:23pm

You ever been in a tourney and ask a local to move off your spot???  Happens everyday, and there is nothing wrong with it.  Get off your high horse.  

Uh-oh.  I've got a real problem with this.

I have never fished a tournament so don't take this as a tournament guy trying to justify this action.  There is a difference between asking and demanding.  You have just as much right to the water and can choose to do as you wish.  However, I have no problem with someone asking me this.  If I was on a large lake that I fished often I would in most circumstances give up the spot.  They are fishing for money and I know the lake so should have other spots.  Plus, I will be back next week most likely.

However, if I'm on a lake I rarely fish.  I'm going to sit there and enjoy my time on this lake I rarely get a shot at.  The tournament angler needs to be prepared to accept either answer graciously.

[WRB]

note to would be record chasers; trap hook rigged lures are not legal for IGFA records. A trap is a hook added to a lure that isn't designed to have additional hooks.

It is nearly impossible to hook any bass in the top of the back with a standard jig, unless the jig was trap hook rigged.

WRB