The 25lb Bass

[Muddy]

First off in the last 5 or so years lake dixon has been the most preasured lake in the country and probably the world durring the spawning months. Every boat gets rented and the shorleines were filed with guys. That filming was when the spawn was over.

To Muddy and bocabasser You are right and also verry wrong. I completly aggree with you that just becuase somebody has money or a better boat or are in a tournament etc does not give them any more rights to spot period. I never said that and I am also very annoyed when somebody comes in on my spot. I am also very curtious towards others guys on the water. IF and this is a big if, they presured or bothered the guy then that is wrong. if they simply made an offer and did not persist when they were denied then I dont think they did anything wrong. I wasnt there that day so either way you guys and my self are just geussing as to how that went down. I do know after talking to a 100 guys that that guy was not bothered by them so I assume they just made the offer and accepted his NO.

Now as for somebody coming up and flipping on a world record bass when I am there first and working the fish, Yes I would get physical over that. I am verry easy going but that would definatley fire me up.

Also to clear up some of the misunderstandings, Mike long caught her first, at 20 lbs. the Jed caught her at 22.7 thats the time and weighing that bothers me, then Mac caught her at 25.1

  I am not wrong about anything I wrote, just because you say so.I do not care what kind of expert you are and what products you make, the pursuit of the world record and all the money involved has made some reprehensible behavior in the name of money and prestige acceptable to some, a very few some and not all fisherman agree.

[5bass]

Take a deep breath guys, this has been a decent discussion so far.

P.S. That Duclos guy and his bathroom scale bass had 'em all covered  

[Catt]

I have to agree with paul on the subject of the kind of pressure a lake receives; I've been around the tournament trails on Toledo Bend for 37 years now and I could list you probably 75 anglers that are either Pros or Semi Pros that fish these trails regularly but of these maybe a dozen are big bass hunters. Many guys get upset when they see someone on one of their spots I do not because I first consider the quality of the angler and face it most are not a threat. I've given out many locations to many anglers here knowing full well they respect me; understand not putting too much pressure on the location and most aint on the lake that often.

flechero, you know full well that it's all in fun; I firmly believe in the abilities of Texas Parks & Wildlife to produce trophy bass and I also believe Texas is the bass fishing capitol of the world.

As for the Cali bass breaking the world record officially or not we all know it happened

[NYfishwow]

california produces bigger bass then texas so i would disagree with that. as for obsession over any fish is kind of wrong, leads to poor actions. If i had a 30 lb largemouth in my area, i would never show it off to anyone.

Cali bass going to break the record again, i fished in TX its not that good. Believe me ;D

[WRB]

Fishing pressure should consider the size of the fishery being targeted. SoCal trophy bass lakes are very small when compared to big bass fisheries around the country, Mexico or Cuba.

A good friend of mine has a private lake in MO that is larger than Dixon for example. DVL is considered a big lake; it is less than 4 miles long! Casitas, Castaic where serveral giant bass were caught are less than 3 miles, when full and that is rare. Most of these lakes are less than a mile long and would fit into a creek arm on Toledo Bend.

The giant bass must survive being caught a few times during it's life in SoCal; C & R isn't an option, it's essentail for these bass to grow big.

It is hard to imagine what fishing pressure is to you try to trophy fish a small CA public lake. Giudes trying to catch these giants with live bait for their clients, skilled big bass specialists and a hord of weekend fisherman looking for that fish of a life time. Big bass is big business.

Another friend giudes at El Salto on occasion (Iovino) and he tells me that the Texas anglers are very good bass fishermen on average and a fun to fish with.

20+ bass are very rare fish and we may never see a valid 22+.

WRB

[flechero]

i fished in TX its not that good.

Wow, that suggests a few things!    

[Branuss04]

Fishing pressure should consider the size of the fishery being targeted. SoCal trophy bass lakes are very small when compared to big bass fisheries around the country, Mexico or Cuba.

A good friend of mine has a private lake in MO that is larger than Dixon for example. DVL is considered a big lake; it is less than 4 miles long! Casitas, Castaic where serveral giant bass were caught are less than 3 miles, when full and that is rare. Most of these lakes are less than a mile long and would fit into a creek arm on Toledo Bend.

The giant bass must survive being caught a few times during it's life in SoCal; C & R isn't an option, it's essentail for these bass to grow big.

It is hard to imagine what fishing pressure is to you try to trophy fish a small CA public lake. Giudes trying to catch these giants with live bait for their clients, skilled big bass specialists and a hord of weekend fisherman looking for that fish of a life time. Big bass is big business.

Another friend giudes at El Salto on occasion (Iovino) and he tells me that the Texas anglers are very good bass fishermen on average and a fun to fish with.

20+ bass are very rare fish and we may never see a valid 22+.

WRB

It's not just bass fishing preasure, don't forget all the Bank beaters, trout fisherman, and bucket grabbers that add to the pressure.  With these SoCal lakes being stocked on a regular basis with trout, a lot of people flock to these lakes for the trout.

[bubbler]

yeah well dont count casitas out boys. its guna come from a big old swimbait windin the drop offs.

[Catt]

i fished in TX its not that good.

Wow, that suggests a few things!

Dear God, please put your arms around my shoulders and your hand over my mouth.  

[paul.]

20+ bass are very rare fish and we may never see a valid 22+.

to me this brings up another interesting issue.  the bar seems to have been raised so high on what is considered "valid" that i wonder if ANY bass or the lucky angler who caught it could withstand all the scrutiny it would take nowadays to become a "legitimate" world record.  

seems that the world record largemouth has become the most coveted prize in all of sport fishing.  any fish that seems to come close to the magic mark, along with the guy who catches it, seem to be almost instantly and hopelessly mired in controversy.  

first comes the barrage of questions about its weight, the accuracy of the process by which it was weighed, whether the fish's measurements support the claimed weight, and the legitimacy of the witnesses it was weighed in front of.  IF the catch comes through that gauntlet unscathed, next come the questions about the legitimacy of the catch itself.  was it caught legally?  did the angler "cheat" somehow?  were there witnesses to the actual catch?  how credible are said witnesses?  on and on the list goes.    

funny thing about us fisherman.  we hate to have our own catches questioned and tend to get pretty p.o.'d or at the very least defensive when someone does question our catches.  yet we seem to be very quick to question or doubt another angler's catch.  i've seen it happen time and time again here on this board.  just human nature i guess.

but it seems that the bigger the fish is, the bigger the controversy is.

as a group, it seems we become more and more skeptical as time goes on.  the catch of dottie when she wieghed 25 pounds is only the latest controversy.  before that crupi's and duclos' bass were questioned.  not to mention perry's world record itself, which is probably the most controversial fish of all time.  

personally, i think the next guy who catches the world record is going to have no choice but to kill the fish if he wants to claim the record.  even then it will probably be difficult.  and of course the "lucky" angler will be crucified, demonized, and hated for killing it.  they will have to endure nagging questions from doubters and haters for the rest of their days.  even though they will undoubtedly become instantly rich, it kind of makes you wonder how "lucky" they will really be.  so ironic.  it's a no win situation, but one we would all love to be in.        

[roadwarrior]

Well, the good news...

There was a similar controversy over the World Record Smallmouth

Bass that was resolved after a period of a little more than 50 years.

Davis Hayes was eventually vindicated, but we can credit that to

Bassmaster Magazine. The most interesting part, and what separates

Mr. Hayes from Mr. Perry, is the fact that Hayes had his fish skin

mounted!

8-)

[flechero]

I think the IGFA would make a great government agency.   :

[Catt]

In my mind since there is no proof otherwise George Perry's bass was 22.25 pounds & I also believe Mac Weakley's 25.1 bass broke that record.

[paul.]

i agree with catt.  sometimes i think all the doubting goes overboard and hurts the sport and the reputation of fishermen in general.  we have an "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy in this country.  but sometimes that doesn't seem to apply to bass fishing where at times, particularly with big fish, it's "guilty until proven innocent".  i have no reason at all to doubt perry, crupi, duclos, weakley, dickerson, etc.  after all there is some evidence to validate their catches.  sometimes i think those who do doubt or criticize are just bitter or jealous.  i can usually accept evidence, even just a little sometimes,  to support someone's claims fairly easily and view their story as credible.  it's outrageous claims with no evidence to back them up that i sometimes have a problem with.   but even then, that might be error on my part.

[Mattlures]

Muddy when I said Wrong I was reffering to you saying it was all about the money and Mac and Jed making an offer. You are correct that I should not have said "wrong" as that is your opinion and just becuase it is different then mine does not make it wrong. The reason I felt it was wrong is you comparred it to a wealthy person trying to buy there way into something or a tournament guy thinking he has rights to a spot over a shore fihsermaon or a guy with a Zebco. Which I totaly agree with you. What I dis agree with you about was this was not the case in this instance. They had been hunting that fish for years and Kyle(I think that was his name) Found it first that morning. They did not pressure him or bully him. They simply made an offer. The offer was regected so they backed off and just watched. If they would have pushed or harrassed or escpecialy casted at the fish then they would be way out of line but from all the info I have heard It didnt go down like that. There is a differnce in the way it happened and the way you presented it.

BTW I dont even know those guys personaly. Everytime I see one of these post about them and Dottie I just try to clear up the facts. So many of the posts have the facts all backwards and twisted.

[Muddy]

Gottcah; Sorry for coming back so strong, still do not agree but sorry for the way I popped off

[WRB]

Dotttie, was weighed twice when caught; 21.9 and 25.1, both on uncertified hand held scales and released before being weighed on a certified scale with a DFG witness. The 2 weights are over 3 pounds apart, which scale was correct at the time the fish was weighed?, we will never know.

Whinning about a few pounds, you bet! Jealous, heck no! It's very difficult to get a certified weight on a live bass in California, most of the lakes do not have certified scales at the marina's. Been there, done that and it's not easy.

Perry's bass was awarded a prize at the time it was submitted for the Field & Stream contest. Perry never submitted the catch for record status, it was grandfathered by the IGFA over 20 years later without any proof; no picture, no whitness, no scale slip, only a statement from Perry. We will never know for sure and have accepted the IGFA record for what it is; the world record LM bass 22 lbs 4 oz., or 22.25 lbs.

WRB

[roadwarrior]

This totally blows me away: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight!

If these guys are on such a passionate quest, why were they

unprepared for success? No certified scale? Wassup with that!

:

[IdahoLunkerHunter]

This totally blows me away: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight!

If these guys are on such a passionate quest, why were they

unprepared for success? No certified scale? Wassup with that!

:

Totally agree!

[Mattlures]

Muddy No need to apologize at all. Its all good.

WRB, When Jed caught Dottie she weighed 22lbs 7 oz. on a CERTIFIED scale in frront of witnesses. later when the DFG showed up and reweighed her she had barfed up some lunch and dropped some egges and weighed 21.11 again on a certified scale. the 25.1 weight was not on a certified scale. I believe the reasson the lighter weight of 21.11 stood was becuase at that time Jed and the guys were members of the world record bass club and they required that the fish be weighed by the DFG. there was a prize of $25,000.00 for the largest fish caught each year and I think Jed had to accept that weight to claim that prize. The IGFA does not have a time restriction on submitting the paperwork for the record. Jed could still submit it for Dotties weight of 22lbs 7 oz and Mac could still submit it for 25.1. I dont thnk Mac would get it but I think Jed would. I am guessing the resaon they dont do it is all the negative stuff that they would have to put up with. Its a shame becuase I think Dottie deserves better.

[Mattlures]

They were not unpreparred. there is a certified scale at the lake. They were unpreparred to foul hook the fish. When that happened they called thier lawyer and told him they fish was foul hooked and he told them to let it go so they did.

[Tucson]

Not trying to offend anyone but here's a question I've never heard regarding Dottie;  The type of fishing that was required to catch her seems extreme, even for bass fisherman.  You have to line up early to get in before they shut the gates, pay your (I believe) $30 fee, focus on this one fish only and spend how many hours in pursuit of her.  I realize this represents the extreme range of fishing behavior but frankly, it kinda takes the fun out of it.  Maybe we need to step back a little bit for a fresh perspective on fishing.  Isn't it about spending time on the water, enjoying the freedom of fishing, having fun and learning a little something on each trip?  

Landing that fish was a real accomplishment, one that any angler could take pride in but jeeze louise, are we putting too fine a point on it?

OK, I'm done.  A handsome facsimile of this rant can be yours by calling........

[Lucky Craft Man]

Not trying to offend anyone but here's a question I've never heard regarding Dottie; The type of fishing that was required to catch her seems extreme, even for bass fisherman. You have to line up early to get in before they shut the gates, pay your (I believe) $30 fee, focus on this one fish only and spend how many hours in pursuit of her. I realize this represents the extreme range of fishing behavior but frankly, it kinda takes the fun out of it. Maybe we need to step back a little bit for a fresh perspective on fishing. Isn't it about spending time on the water, enjoying the freedom of fishing, having fun and learning a little something on each trip?

Landing that fish was a real accomplishment, one that any angler could take pride in but jeeze louise, are we putting too fine a point on it?

OK, I'm done. A handsome facsimile of this rant can be yours by calling........

Well, I assume it all depends on what your idea of enjoyment is while fishing.  Some people like throwing in a bobber with a worm and watching it float in the same spot for 2 hours.  That would drive me nuts.  I personally like to fish 13+ hours usually without eating or taking a break.  Some people think I am nuts, but that's how I enjoy the sport.  I could watch those guys and think they are over the top, but I also can understand that that is how they enjoy the sport (or at least that is how they feed their obsession).

[Mattlures]

Tuson you are sooo right its scarry. It can definatley be NOT FUN. I actualy felt worried that I would mis my chance. If I wanted to go to a different lake because I knew I could get a 10+ I would be second guessing myself all day becuase I should have beed an Dixon even if I caught a 13lber I would think what did I mis? maybe I could have found her that day. I went up there a bunch and it wasnt that much fun. You hop in your rental and after an hour ever seeable spot has been looked at by arguably the best sight fisherman in the world. Then you hope she well move up later so you just keep looking. It wasnt fun. I was one of the few guy who would actualy throw swimbaits after the morning search. In a strange way I understand Jeb being relieved when Dottie died. It was just as much worring about sombody eles catching hes as it was hoping to catch her yourself. The amount of time those guys put in was rediculous and definatley obsessive. I would not call it fun at all.

[Jaheff]

I think some of you guy's need to read the book

"sowbelly"  by Monte Burke. Good explanation.

I use to live a mile and a half from Dixon when all

this was going on.Yes I have been there when "The Game"

was being played quit interesting to see what went on.

Nuff said.

I also have to say I have met Jed he is a class act on

and off the water.