My thoughts on hook sets and pegged unpegged weights

[Garnet]

The angle really doesn't matter if you hold the bait tight  nobody can get the hooks into you. If you open your had you will be hooked.

You can hold a hook between 2 fingers and buddy will not get it away from you.

Garnet

[Catt]

You can get bit on the initial fall but most generally the bass will pickup you worm as it's laying perfectly still on the bottom with the weight a couple inches or less from the worm.

This is why the biggest mistake most inexperienced angles make is to fish a Texas Rig to fast thinking it has to be falling in order get bit.

I will let it lay for minimum of 30 seconds between hops before moving it again; some times it'll lay for a minute or more.  

Y'all want to increase your hookup ratio then change to a straight shank hook

[tyrius.]

The angle really doesn't matter if you hold the bait tight  nobody can get the hooks into you. If you open your had you will be hooked.

You can hold a hook between 2 fingers and buddy will not get it away from you.

But now you're adding an assumption that the bass can hold it's mouth closed with the same strength that you can hold your hand closed. Also this is assuming that above strength is greater than the power put into the hookset.  You're also then assuming that the bass will hold onto the bait after it feels the pressure of the hookset.  I would wager that these are incorrect assumptions.

And the angle does matter (especially with hooks that are not offset).  If you pull straight out then the hook pulls straight out of the fish's mouth.  If you pull up the hook pivots and the point is driven home.  Try it and you'll see a difference.

[Garnet]

Just get a hold of a bait and have somebody pull with any fishing rod. You will fine how very little stength it takes to hold. Now get that rod in your hand and see how hard you are pulling and how little strength buddy is holding on.

Now you can stand on chair or on a bridge you can pull left ,right underhanded it cann be a $500 rod or $50 rod.

Don't try to open your hand you will be hooked.

Garnet

[Matt Fly]

Y'all want to increase your hookup ratio then change to a straight shank hook

Since the late 70's, I have tried all types of hooks.   Tru-turns, EWG's, offsets, and others.   What I have found is the straight shank has always worked.         I'm like Catt, if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it.

Straight shanked hooks still get the job done.    90% of the time, I paint my own bullets.    I love seeing teeth marks on my bullets.   Lets me know they are eating the bait real good.

I do belive there is a time to peg sinkers.   But for all applications, I wouldn't have the confidence in doing that.

[WRB]

Just get a hold of a bait and have somebody pull with any fishing rod. You will fine how very little stength it takes to hold. Now get that rod in your hand and see how hard you are pulling and how little strength buddy is holding on.

Now you can stand on chair or on a bridge you can pull left ,right underhanded it cann be a $500 rod or $50 rod.

Don't try to open your hand you will be hooked.

Garnet

Try reel setting; point the rod at the worm or jig, reel until the line is tight, then sweep set with the rod. Do not hold try to hold the hook!

Hook setting is all about moving the sharp hook point into the basses mouth tissue. The issue with T-rigged worms is the worm can fill the hook gap, preventing the point from penetrating tissue. After rigging a worm, try pushing hook through the worm and slide the front down into the hook bend with middle of the worm. If you don't have a wide enough gap, all you are doing is pulling a soft plastic lump out of the basses mouth. I agree that the Straight shank worm hook tends to catch into the top of the basses mouth much easier than off set hook designs.

Catt has answered this post in detail.

WRB

[Sam]

Yikes!

Straight shank hook.

Catt, don't give the secret away.  

[Garnet]

The straight hook that I used was a Stanley and was in the straight hook camp for years "decades".

Then trig tubes got into the game some guy won a classic and there hook % is terrible.

The whole point is no angler can generate enough power to stick a bass.  You need the bass to open it's mouth with the point against flesh and shake it's head.

Most of the straight shank guys will rememder  In Fisherman

article going into power generated by hookset it's like 3 lbs pressure.

Bassically fishing rods are made to strain our arms, elbows, shoulders.

So if you want to up your hook % on tubes, large worms and flukes try the Daichi copperhead hook. This hook could be improved and it's better than straight shank.

If theres a hook company that wants best is class they can contact me for a fee I will help them.

Garnet

[WRB]

There are a lot of very good hooks on the market today.

3 pounds force applied to a very sharp hook point is enough to penetrate any basses mouth tissue or your hand.

Using the reel set method discribed you can generate up to 8 pounds of force to the hook, using standard med/hvy or hvy bass rod with 12 to 15 lbs test line. 8 pounds is enough force to drive a sharp hook point passed the barb in pine wood for example and can break most bass rods.

I have used the reel & sweep hook set when casting jigs for a very long time, successfully. Rod sets are low percentage when casting long distance using jigs or worms. The snap set into slack line works well for most worms, cast within 30 feet or so, as long as you keep the rod loaded. Largemouth bass do not bite worms or jigs with their lips, they vacuum the lure into the back of the mouth by pumping water through the gills and crunch down on it with abrasive cartiladge between the tongue, located just above the throat. They reject the lure by blowing it back out. If the hook point sticks tissue, they shake it out.

The weight attached to the hook, pegged or a jig, helps the bass to shake it out, if the line is slack. A sliding sinker simply moves away form the hook, applying little weight to the hook point. This is why reel setting is effective, you keep the hook point in the tissue, until you can put enough pressure on it to penetrate passed the barb.

WRB

[Catt]

I remember either reading an article or watching a show where an experiment was done of the amount of pressure applied by anglers on the hook set. This experiment even went as far as using different style hook sets, length rods (6-8'), line test (mono 12-20#), hook styles, depths of water (8-18'), casting distances (flip/cast) and body size of anglers. The results were the amount of pressure applied was from 4-8 pounds regardless of any change made.

[Garnet]

My memory is vague but 3 lbs still is in my mined so we will go with 4-8 still for all the best rods, reels, and pro hooksetters those # are pretty bad.

Back when this article was new I worked on salmon charter boat (part time). One of the other captains was standing beside his boat on the trailer explaining to clients drag set and hooking ect. Buddys loading the rod and unloading with a salmon spoon and trebles, after this expert commetary he reaches up to lets go of the spoon and get 2 hooks in his hand. The point as soon as buddy let go he was hooked.

By making your trig function like a jig your hook % will go up.

Garnet

[tyrius.]

My memory is vague but 3 lbs still is in my mined so we will go with 4-8 still for all the best rods, reels, and pro hooksetters those # are pretty bad.

Why is that bad? Do we know what pressure bass can exert to hold their mouths closed when they aren't expecting a hookset? If that pressure is only a pound then 3 pounds is more than is required.

[Catt]

3 pounds is the amount of pressure applied in driving the hook home not how much pressure pushing the mouth open.  

[WRB]

Most experienced bass fishermen have caught a lot bass on plastic worms during the time they have been fishing and so have I. The hook setting techniques that successful bass fisherman develop work very well under the conditions they fish. Where there is a contest between theory vereses practical experience, experience wins the majority of the time.

I made a simple suggestion to try hook setting a wooden board, to prove a point any fisherman can do at home. I also made a suggestion on how to evaluate rod strength by trying to lift a simple dead weight object like plastic bottle of drinking water; where 1 pint equals 1 lb (1.04 lbs) or 1/2 gallon = 4 lbs (4.16) and 1 gallon = 8 lbs (8.32). Very few fresh water bass fishing rods can apply more than 4 lbs of pressure or lift 4 lbs of dead weight...it's alot force or lifting power. 8 lbs of pulling or lifting force requires a very heavy flipping rod. Breaking 20 lb test line for example doesn't mean you applied 20 lbs of force. The rate or speed the force was applied or impact force, is what breaks line and sets hooks.

Bass rarely close their mouth and lips tightly together, unless biting with the lips. The basses mouth is slightly ajar open, even when crunching down on your plastic worm or jig, they use thier tongue against the back of the mouth, so there isn't any need to pry the lips open.

Improving my personal hook setting percentage would be very difficult, as I miss very few strikes and catch a lot of big bass with the methods discribed and proven by experience.

WRB

[Catt]

Exactly as stated  

[tyrius.]

3 pounds is the amount of pressure applied in driving the hook home not how much pressure pushing the mouth open.

And I can't see how 3 pounds of pressure would be insufficient to drive the hook home.  I don't get why garnet says that 3lbs of pressure is "pretty bad".  3lbs of pressure will sink a hook deep.

[J Francho]

Wow.  Just wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going, LOL.  Very entertaining.  I've caught at least two or three fish since it started.

[tyrius.]

Wow. Just wow. I can't believe this thread is still going, LOL. Very entertaining. I've caught at least two or three fish since it started.

Not me all that ponds I fish are frozen!!!   >

[Garnet]

You really need to hold a bait and feel a hookset. You only think that driving the hook home is possible.

The angler is putting out max force and getting 3lbs thats awfull.

And then possible weeds,brush long cast to take away from that 3lbs.

When I read this artcle it's clear to me that all mechanicail advantages must be on my side. Good rod postion, good balance, right line and most important good hooks.

Garnet

[Catt]

This is the exact reason hook points not the hook itself is so critical; the best explanation ever is this quote from Raul a trained doctor.

Here's a little explanation on how the shape of the point can make a world of difference: in my daily practice I use sutures, sutures that come with needle, needles are different depending upon what you are going to stitch, we have needles for everything BUT skin and needles for skin. What's the difference, well, skin is anything but soft so the shape of the point is different.

Needles for everything have a CONICAL POINT, while needles for skin have CUTTING EDGE POINT, what's the difference? try to drive a conical point needle through skin and it will penetrate if you use a lot of muscle, do the same with a cutting edge point needle and it's a piece of cake, you don't need to apply a lot of muscle to make the needle go through the skin, why ? Because while a conical point has to separate the tissue the cutting edge point SLICES through it.

Needles and hooks have the exact same application, to penetrate tissue, which one you think does a better job after the explanation, conical or cutting edge? Gammys are conical head hooks, Owners Cutting edge are cutting edge hooks.

So don't let your supposedly brand loyalty cloud your vision, in the pure aspect of function Gammys are sharp I'm not denying it but Owner's cutting edge hooks have superior hook penetration than Gammys hands down. And not only that, they cut through the toughest baits effortlessly.

Here's a little ditty on hook setting  

Regardless of species of fish I set hook the same way by letting the rod do the work it was meant to do which is to cast the lure, set the hook, & fight the fish.

Proper hook set by Roadworrier

#1 Start with high quality, ultra sharp hooks. For most soft plastics I use XPoint or Gamakatsu 4/0 EWG Offset Worm Hooks. Set your drag properly (with a scale) considering line and rod ratings.

#2 Use a "snap set" sometimes called a "quick set". When you detect a bite, lower your rod tip and QUICKLY reel down. Snap your wrists raising the rod without moving the reel position relative to your body. This will drive the hook home. DO NOT "double set", that will do more harm than good.

#3 Keep your rod UP! (10 - 12 o'clock) and maintain CONSTANT pressure.

NEVER give the fish any slack, NEVER. Make the fish fight the rod and retrieve line when you can.

The drag setting on your reel should allow slippage at 25 - 30% of actual line breaking strength with no more than 75% of maximum flex in your rod. This can be measured with a scale attached directly to the line on a rigged rod or indirectly using a plastic grocery bag filled with the appropriate weight. When using the indirect technique, lift the bag GENTLY with your rod.

[WRB]

I would agree with the cutting edge hook points and often use that style of hook for off shore marlin and big tuna fishing. The big 7/0 to 13/0 forged welded eye hooks are easy to sharpen by filing a knife edge on the barb side of the hook point and stone the hook point to razor sharpness. Hooks harpened like that penetrate the hard mouths of these big salt water fish, where needle point hooks will not, becuase the salt water dulls the chemically sharpened points.

I also use Owner hooks a lot and Gamakatsu hooks for fresh water bass fishing with good success. The Owner hooks do have a cutting edge, however they also have a needle point in front of the cutting edge area of the hook point, therefor only the needle point does the initial penetration.

The only problem with the tempered hardened steel needle point hooks is; damage to the point from rocks, then it's almost impossible to resharped them. It's a pain the arsh to through away a hand tied hair jig because of hook point damage, but that the price you pay for needle sharp hooks.

Few anglers fish a jig by casting it over 100 feet, then try to set the hook effectively. The only method that works is reel setting, then follow up with a rod set. Once you have taken up the line slack, the rod can add force to the hook set, otherwise it's very difficult to move enough line to effectively set the hook.

WRB

[Garnet]

When these hook companys call me to design a great hook the cutting point will get a look. On the hookset and a bass opens it's mouth and shakes it head I think that moves the skin to allows hooking.

There was a comment on how much pressure a bass can but on a bait and I'm sure it's more than 3-4 lbs. In tournament practice I've lots of times tryed to get a bait out of bass mouth and if they decide it's staying in there mouth it's staying.

Garnet