MY HEAD HURTS FROM EVEN THINKING ABOUT THIS:: QUESTION

[Muddy]

Man : all these old threads are great. I think sometimes we loose the fact that all this stuff is valid based on regional conditions. I see disimilar results , all working from different parts of the country, there are things that work up north that just ain't gonna work all that well in the south and visa versa

 My Question: If 90% of the fish are in deeper water most of the time and 10 % are in the shallower water>>>and if only a perecentage of those 90% in deep water are actively feeding, while virtually mopst of the shallow water bass are, why doesnt it even out? Why wouldnt you catch the more active bass at a better rate shallow?

 I ask this because this year I fished deep, less numbers much better fish, I can't figure out why?

[Catt]

Ok Muddy first and foremost what will work every where in the country: find the structure, find the bait fish & you will find the bass.

To answer you question about percentages; if the bass are more active shallow then by all means fish shallow.

The reason you catch better fish deep vs. shallow is because the deep water bass are less affected by weather conditions & fishing pressure.

[ring fry]

The reason you catch better fish deep vs. shallow is because the deep water bass are less affected by weather conditions & fishing pressure.

ding, ding, ding we have a winner!

[Muddy]

Catt: Thaks , I just needed an explanation. I took what you and 4 Bizz were selling and bit by bit I have become a relatively offshore( Where I fish you can still see the shore) and I am pleased how my style is changing. I just didnt put the weather thing together, Thanks now it sank through my thck Italian head!

[Muddy]

Where we differ, In smaller natural lakes ( Under 1000 acres) with depths of up to 45 ft It is all about the Flat Grassy Beds, hands down. Now a hump on one of these beds will definitely be a good target, but in Natural Lakes herein PA and Upstate NY it is all about the grassy flats.

[Raul]

Ok Muddy first and foremost what will work every where in the country: find the structure, find the bait fish & you will find the bass.

Right on !

The reason you catch better fish deep vs. shallow is because the deep water bass are less affected by weather conditions & fishing pressure.

Right on x2

We as anglers make the mistake of being visually oriented, we like to fish what we see: a tree, a stump, a weedbed and so on, we tend to forget or simply don 't pay attention to the surroundings and we suck at putting what we see and what we pretend to fish together. We normally don 't understand that some elements are additions and other are sinergic when put together.

A creek channel is good, a tree standing right next to the creek channel is better, but a creek channel with a bend with a tree standing on the bend is by far are whole lotta better than the other two in addition. That 's why some places are much more productive than others.

We see a weedbed and what you see ? a weedbed  : but what 's so important of the weedbed ? it 's not the weedbed per se, it 's upon what the weedbed is growing what matters more than the weedbed itself, what else is around the weedbed is what makes one weedbed by far more productive than another one.

It 's really a matter of observation.

[J Francho]

Maybe the natural lakes and bays around me are different than yours, but while it may be about a weedy flat, there is usually a reason one flat produces better than others.  Main lake points with strong secondary points and a flat in the middle with close proximity to deep water are what produces here.  That is probably universal in many areas that feature this type of structure.  

My three largest fish this year came from areas like this.  They may have been flats fish, but really they were structure fish.  Earlier in the year before the weeds came up, the fish were on those points.  The last ingredient I've noticed as well is gravel bottom.  

Over the years, while fishing a particular water through out the year, the patterns begin to emerge.  I can't always predict where the fish are biting, but I can least narrow down the water to major areas to work.  Once fish start biting, look for new spots on that water that mirror the spot you're catching fish on.  Sounds simple when I type it, but it takes time, and the learning process is constant.

[Muddy]

Fishing Balston Spa

Thats a Good Point JF: Weeds are cover on structure, and yes humps and ridges do exisit on the flats and the edge of the flats Once the sun goes down and we are smaking them with topwaters and dark jigs, a lot of big fish are deep into the flats

[Raul]

I don 't fish natural lakes oftenly, I 've fished natural lagoons at Tamaulipas fed by the Tamesí river, particularily I 'm fond to fish a particular one called La Escondida, it 's about a thousand acres in surface, it 's connected to the river by a small channel 50 yards long and 5 to 6 yards wide, the lagoon ( a beautiful place btw ) is bowl shaped like and 15 ft deep at the deepest point, but 10-12 ft is the average depth, structure: none whatsoever, the bottom is in practical terms as flat as a table, the water clarity ranges from a foot ( at the entrance of the channel ) up to 15 ft ( ultra crystal clear ), the bottom si covered by aquatic plants valisneria type like ( grassy ) plus some water hyacynth and the always present ( at that type of water bodies ) tule ( reeds, cat tails ).

Now the catch here is, where you are going to find the fish ? there 's grass covering all the bottom like a carpet, it grows leaving you a clearance between the weeds and the surface of about 2-3 ft, but is all that "carpet" like a carpet ? no, why not ? cuz the bottom composition is not the same all through the bottom so some weeds don 't grow as tall as the others and where the bottom composition doesn 't allow the weeds to grow there 's holes in the carpet.

Fish by edges ! the transition between one thing and the other, the edge between the weeds growth and the water is a hard line ( edge ) from one environment to the other, the water surface is a hard line too, where two different types of weeds meet is another one and so on. If you take your time and pay attention and begin to look instead of seeing you will find that not everything is the same, for seeing the forest you don 't look at the trees.

That 's what Catt means when he says, find the structure, find the baitfish and you will find the bass, for example, weedbeds have "structure" in their composition and in the way they are constructed by mother nature.

[avid]

Now a hump on one of these beds will definitely be a good target

ehemm Mr. muddy.

Kindly remember that this is a family forum.

[senile1]

Now a hump on one of these beds will definitely be a good target

ehemm Mr. muddy.

Kindly remember that this is a family forum.

Thanks, avid.  That Muddy character needs to pull his head out of the gutter.  

[Muddy]

Now a hump on one of these beds will definitely be a good target

ehemm Mr. muddy.

Kindly remember that this is a family forum.

So let me get this straight : Here we have a clear case of

One HUMP, censoring another HUMP: about speaking of yet another HUMP, Did I get that right Avid

[Raul]

Now a hump on one of these beds will definitely be a good target

ehemm Mr. muddy.

Kindly remember that this is a family forum.

So let me get this straight : Here we have a clear case of

One HUMP, censoring another HUMP: about speaking of yet another HUMP, Did I get that right Avid

Humpy isn 't it ?  

[avid]

So let me get this straight : Here we have a clear case of

One HUMP, censoring another HUMP: about speaking of yet another HUMP, Did I get that right Avid

poifectly  

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

why doesnt it even out? Why wouldnt you catch the more active bass at a better rate shallow?

In my opinion, it does.  I know that often times, I could pound the bank and grab a handful, but those aren't the fish I'm after.  (See quote below)

The reason you catch better fish deep vs. shallow is because the deep water bass are less affected by weather conditions & fishing pressure.

and these fish have learned that safety lies deep, keep it nearby.  My personal favorite is a combination of both.  A flat.