Gar & Carp, what are they doing to the bass?

[jb_adams]

Seems like every trip on my home lake, when I see gar rolling & splashing, I never catch a bass in that area much less see any.  Same thing for carp.  I usually see a lot of carp rolling and splashing around but never can catch bass when these two species are around.

Bass are predatory and usually near the top of the food chain.  Other than the striper in the lake, the bass are near the top.  So why do these species affect me being able to locate bass?

And just what the heck are the carp doing anyway?  Are they chasing shad?  I assume they are competing for the same food source or they are trying out for Sea World because they seem to like jumping completely out of the water a lot on Beaver Lake.

So here's the current lake conditions:

- Depending on where you are on the lake, water clarity is clearing and up to 4-5ft and 2ft in some areas. (usually a very clear lake)

- Flooded water level so miles of great shoreline structure to fish and tons of coves to fish (don't find many bass in coves right now)

- most bass are suspended near deeper water on ledges and humps

Any thoughts or insight on why I can't find bass in large coves and all I find are gar and carp?  I've caught some bass in coves but nothing of real quality.

[Ellesar]

I've wondered the same thing. In the lake and river I fish in there seem to be tons of gar. I do find bass in the same area, or atleast very close to it, but the gar seem to be out in the grass away from the bank while the gar are rolling around in the grass away from the banks.

In the TN river I see tons of gar and, like you said, when I see them I rarely see the bass.

[George Welcome]

Disolved oxygen is the answer more than likely: Both gar and carp thrive in areas of low DO concentration whereas bass aren't as tolerant of it. DO levels are a transient thing so you might see it in one area of the lake one day, and in another area the next.

[jb_adams]

I've wondered the same thing. In the lake and river I fish in there seem to be tons of gar. I do find bass in the same area, or atleast very close to it, but the gar seem to be out in the grass away from the bank while the gar are rolling around in the grass away from the banks.

In the TN river I see tons of gar and, like you said, when I see them I rarely see the bass.

Beaver Lake is a river reservoir and there are a lot of carp and gar.  Seems like when I go into a large cove, the bass are at the mouth and the middle tight on structure or suspended on ledges and never in the back where it's shallow or where all the thousands of shad are.  I would think the bass would be in the back gorging on the abundance of shad.  Instead it looks like synchranized swimming with carp and gar as the star of the show.....

I've gotten to where I'll pull the trolling motor and find a new spot when I start hearing carp rolling or gar splashing.  Why waist time fishing it if they aren't there? :

[jb_adams]

Disolved oxygen is the answer more than likely: Both gar and carp thrive in areas of low DO concentration whereas bass aren't as tolerant of it. DO levels are a transient thing so you might see it in one area of the lake one day, and in another area the next.

Wow!  That's a scientific and logical answer!  Thanks!

Makes sense to me.

[Ellesar]

Disolved oxygen is the answer more than likely: Both gar and carp thrive in areas of low DO concentration whereas bass aren't as tolerant of it. DO levels are a transient thing so you might see it in one area of the lake one day, and in another area the next.

Im not so sure of that. For instance, on the TN river, when I see lots of Gar, its up near the surface in the main channel. Given that it has a current, the water in the main channel, 20 feet from the shore should be some of the most oxygenated water present. Yet I find bass in similar areas, but not where I find the gar. I would find it hard to believe that the DO levels are different in those cases.

In Lake Guntersville, I find gar and bass within 20 feet of each other, in similar cover. Again, I don't think that the DO levels are that different.

I could be wrong but I don't know that DO is the cause of what I'm seeing.

[BadKarma42]

I don't know about Gar, but in my experience where there is carp there are not bass.

This could jsut be me though.

[bkoguy07]

I didn't know carp ate shad...  weird.

[fishfordollars]

Ok guys, ya'll brought it up. One of you take the the bull by the horns and research it for all of us. Great question by the way. I would be interested in the DO answer my self. Get us some backed up info that will support your findings.

[jb_adams]

I didn't know carp ate shad... weird.

I didn't think so either but I have seen a lot of carp in shallow water, suspended much like bass.  I was so excited and flipping to this perceived HUGE bass only to find out it was a stinkn' carp.  I was so mad.  I wasted a lot of time chasing several carp in a cove ealier this spring when it was carp.

Oh, and it was in a VERY highly oxygenated cove too come to think of it.  It had a beautiful waterfall in the back near where I saw the carp so the water was oxygenated.  Thousands of little fry or shad of some type were there too.  It was pre-spawn and the shad looked like tiny little bass.  Green with little stripes down their sides.  I saw one tiny little bass about 8-10 inches and that was the only bass I saw in that cove.  But here were at least 10-15 carp suspended in flooded brush near the bank.

Here's a picture of the fall.

I've seen far more carp and gar rolling in large coves than I have bass.  They have almost become a bad *** for me now.  Just this weekend, I caught a nice 2lb LM on a spinnerbait suspended deep on near a brush pile.  As I entered the cove further back, no bites.  There were carp & gar present.  On the way out of the cove, I went back to my spot and didn't get any more bass off that spot.  Wierd....

[scott k]

I never catch bass in the areas I find gar cruising, usually if I find gar where I'm fishing I get outta there.  I have caught bass where there are carp however.

[bkoguy07]

I didn't know carp ate shad...  weird.

I didn't think so either but I have seen a lot of carp in shallow water, suspended much like bass.  I was so excited and flipping to this perceived HUGE bass only to find out it was a stinkn' carp.  I was so mad.  I wasted a lot of time chasing several carp in a cove ealier this spring when it was carp.

Oh, and it was in a VERY highly oxygenated cove too come to think of it.  It had a beautiful waterfall in the back near where I saw the carp so the water was oxygenated.  Thousands of little fry or shad of some type were there too.  It was pre-spawn and the shad looked like tiny little bass.  Green with little stripes down their sides.  I saw one tiny little bass about 8-10 inches and that was the only bass I saw in that cove.  But here were at least 10-15 carp suspended in flooded brush near the bank.

Here's a picture of the fall.

I've seen far more carp and gar rolling in large coves than I have bass.  They have almost become a bad *** for me now.  Just this weekend, I caught a nice 2lb LM on a spinnerbait suspended deep on near a brush pile.  As I entered the cove further back, no bites.  There were carp & gar present.  On the way out of the cove, I went back to my spot and didn't get any more bass off that spot.  Wierd....

You could always swim there lol.

[jvox]

If the Carp are giving you a problem catching bass, GO FOR CARP!! They're AWESOME.  

[JShrock07]

Try catching the carp, they are fun to fight. All it takes is a couple peices of kernal corn, you can buy a can for under a dollar at the store and have a blast all day long,..... cheapest fishing ever!!! hahahaha

[George Welcome]

Gar, carp, and cat fish all breathe air through their air bladders as well as respire through their gills. They do not have to be in water that has low concentrations of DO but they can be in areas of low DOconcentrations. When you find them without other marine animals you are more than likely in an area of low DO. There are literally thousands of books out there on ecosystems of the water and its inhabitants on this earth.

Waterfall aeration: Aeration efficiency is a function of the number of steps in the cascade, not the height of the waterfall. The more steps, the better the aeration effect. This means that the very pretty "high" waterfalls where water drops from a great height over a single ledge directly into the pond is the least effective aerator.

The presence of a waterfall in no way means that you have well aerated water.  Also note that a river or stream is but a waterfall with many steps. The wider and shallower the river, the greater the aeration occuring from mixing. However, there are many factors affecting the presence of DO in an ecosystem.

[tyrius.]

I don't know about Gar, but in my experience where there is carp there are not bass.

This could jsut be me though.

The pond I fish the most has lots of carp.  I see them breaching the surface all the time right around where I'm catching bass.  I also caught a nice sized carp right in the middle of catching bass in the same spot.  Thought I had a HUGE bass that time, but it was just a carp.

But that is pond fishing though so being on a lake may make a difference.

[Ellesar]

http://www.saveourwetlands.org/garfish.htm

That link talks some about the relationship between the two. From what I'm reading, not a whole lot of research has been done on this. But one thing that seems fairly consistent is that they both compete for many of the same food sources, like sun fish and shad. So it would seem logical that if a gar population in an area has gotten the edge over the bass population, the gar population would likely continue to dominate because they would get a large share of the available forage. And since a gar will eat a young bass, if a gar population gets ahead of a bass population, the bass population should stand to suffer more predation which would lead to fewer fish.

Perhaps, and this is just my speculation, this is a localized scenario and doesn't happen everywhere. In some areas the gar get ahead and in others the bass do. And there are likely some areas where they co-exist due to the abundance of other bait fish that are easier to capture than going after each other.

I can say, from observation, that the bass and gar on Lake Guntersville seem to co-exist more readily than they do in the TN river.

I think the DO angle gives the gar the ability to exist where bass don't, but that doesn't mean that they don't live in areas habitated by bass. And I think what we are witnessing is what happens when they are both sharingthe ecosystem.

[SuskyDude]

And just what the heck are the carp doing anyway? Are they chasing shad? I assume they are competing for the same food source or they are trying out for Sea World because they seem to like jumping completely out of the water a lot on Beaver Lake.

quote]

Those carp are chasing eachother, not shad. They are spawning.

[jb_adams]

Too bad I can't get a DO meter on my Lowrance electronics much like the water temp.  If I could also track DO levels, I'd take note of the readings where I catch bass and where I don't catch bass.

Problem is, the surface could have low DO and the subsurface over 30ft below could have higher oxygen content.  Seems to be the case on my lake anyway.  Most bass now are suspended deep or near deeper water.  You don't find them over 100ft deep rock bluffs, and you won't find them in 80ft deep coves but you will find them suspended about 20-30ft or sometimes 10ft over structure at the mouth of a cut off the main cove that is 50-80ft deep.

[BackofHisSkeeter]

Habitat - They inhabit sluggish, sometimes poorly oxygenated water, backwaters and oxbows of medium-to-large rivers and lakes. Longnose gars as well as other gar species are able to tolerate poor water quality by breathing air through its air bladder. They usually are found near vegetation and occasionally in brackish waters.

Feeding Habits - Young fish mainly feed on zooplankton while larger ones feed on small fishes, frogs and crustaceans. They feed by stalking their prey or lying in wait for it to come within striking distance

Little is known about the biology of this huge fish. Alligator gar are usually found in slow sluggish waters, although running water seems to be necessary for spawning. They appear to spawn in the spring beginning sometime in May. Eggs are deposited in shallow water. Young fish may consume insects. Adults feed primarily on fish, but will also take waterfowl. This species is able to tolerate greater salinities that other gar species and feeds heavily on marine catfish when they are available.

                   

I cannot post my sources, since I have not posted at least 10 normal posts, one was tpwd and the other was from the florida conservation dot org

[flippincrazy]

I don't know why the carp are there, but in my experience the bass are still there.