When to fish...?

[RobbyZ5001]

How do you know when you should be targeting the bottom with heavier t-rigs, c-rigs, jigs, etc. . How do you know when to target the middle or high water column? Do you use experimenting primarily, or sonar primarily?

[FD.]

I start the day with 4-5 baits to try, from top to bottom.   Frog, Pop R, shallow crank, rattle trap and jig.  Unless I am on fish, I will work through the water column several times a hour.

[RobbyZ5001]

Alright I guess this is a stupid question.  

[roadwarrior]

Simple answer:

In low light, fish topwater or high in the water column with shallow running crankbaits, jerkbaits or spinnerbaits.

Throw a Rat-L-Trap to see if the fish are focused primarily on baitfish.

Otherwise, fish the bottom with soft plastics.

8-)

[bassmedic46]

No such thing as a stupid question.

[RobbyZ5001]

I am looking for how you guys figure out what the best way to fish for them is. This could be seeing crayfish activity at the boat dock, or shad activity. This could be seeing suspended fish on the fish finder. I have spent a few days on the boat JUST fishing a jig. Dragging it very slowly, hopping, popping it, and swimming it. I don't think it is as cut as dry your saying either RW (although it may be a start).

[Brian_Reeves]

Fishing the bottem and fishing for suspended fish are targeted the same way for me.  I'll get around them with a jig, t-rig, or carolina rig...depending on the area.  I don't worry about fish that aren't close to cover or that I cannot target as they are often a waste of time anyway.

I carry 2-3 poles, since I fish out of a canoe.  I wish I could use more, but simplicitiy is golden.  Now I'm not shorting myself on a good and wide variety of tackle...just fewer poles.  I break down a bank line or an area where I know there is underwater structure.  I take a quick note of whether it is grassy, full of timber or brush, rocky, or has steep banklines etc.  Depending on what I come up with dictates my lures as far as what kind of lure/rig, what colors and weights and all that jazz.  That is for my saturation lures (carolina rig, texas rig, jig, drop shot, trick stick, fluke...anything I wanna keep in the strike zone for a long time).  These are almost always dark, natural colors.

I'll also use this first anylasis to pick out my coverage lures...crankbaits, spinnerbaits, jerkbaits etc.  These lures are always somekind of horizontally retrieved, subsurface lure that I can cover water in between heavy cover or structure.  I also work the outer edges of cover and structure with these lures.  These lures will almost always be white or "sunfish" colored because that's my preference.

As far as my 3rd pole...I make the decision to have a topwater on it when I'm on the water.  If the decision is no, I'll almost ALWAYS have either a fluke, fat ika, trick stick, or * on it.  Reason for that is obvious.  These lures ROCK!

[Paul Roberts]

Fish High or Low?

Not a stupid question at all. But, there really aren't pat answers. I'll try to offer some generalities, as I understand them, that hopefully will help you make decisions when fishing.

Bass relate to structure/cover so they are usually somewhat close to one or the other. In general, actively hunting bass are above bottom. Unless they are keying on crayfish, bass tend to be piscivorous and are oriented to food above them. People catch bass on bottom often because bass, being mostly shallow water fish (usually <15ft in most waters), prefer to stay below the level in which they can be seen from the surface, which puts them relatively close to the bottom. Slow bottom presentations can be very attractive to bass, and trigger strikes as they drag or bang bottom. This doesn't necessarily mean the bass were "on bottom".

In general, resting bass (called neutral/negative) tend to be on bottom, usually near or in cover. These fish are often catchable if you can find and get to them. Some bottom caught bass are these guys. (Of course, ithere are always exceptions -In some waters, (usually deep, clear, heavily fished waters) bass may suspend away from bottom when resting.

Bass almost always relate to cover objects, and more than one diver has described bass as "acting as though the top of the cover (especially weeds and wood) is the "bottom". Not the actual bottom!

Understand and make use of "ambush points". "Ambush points" are something physical that obscures the falsity of the lure, makes the lure look as though it might escape, and/or offers a corral to contain the lure (making it appear catchable). Presentations up in the water column, in open water, are often more difficult to trigger strikes in. Easier to get follows, but without something to bang off of, hide behind, and appear to "corral/contain" the prey, it's tougher to trigger fish. Bass know when something is vulnerable -in fact that's what they are looking for when hunting. This is why topwaters can be so effective, if you can get them to come all the way to the surface (conditions dependent) -the surface film is a great "ambush point"-something that obscures the falseness inherent in lures and acts as a corral for bass to trap prey against. Cover, and the bottom, can act as ambush points too.

So, when fishing: First determine where your bass are, shallow or deep: by season, water clarity, sky conditions, surface conditions, and available cover. You do that by experimenting and experience.

When to switch or move? Think about targeting active bass first, then neutral bass. I tend to start shallow and work deeper and lower. It's easier to fish shallow, you can cover more water, and if there are active bass it's easier to catch 'em when they are high and chasing. If I fail I begin looking deeper (closer to bottom first, then move out deeper)

Some generalities, starting places:

Fish high in darker conditions, and lower in brighter conditions.

Fish cover first the top to see if they are there, then the deeper outside edges, then inside it if you have to.

Target Ambush Points regardless of where in the water column they are.

Hope this helps some.

[daviscw]

Nice post!

[Paul Roberts]

I am looking for how you guys figure out what the best way to fish for them is. This could be seeing crayfish activity at the boat dock, or shad activity. This could be seeing suspended fish on the fish finder. I have spent a few days on the boat JUST fishing a jig. Dragging it very slowly, hopping, popping it, and swimming it. I don't think it is as cut as dry your saying either RW (although it may be a start).

We look at each thing you mentioned and a whole lot more. There just isn't one answer to that question -we look at a million things. But the bass only tend to look at a few in each circumstance, and it won't likely be the same all over the lake. And you can expect it will change every hour, and with every change in conditions. Fishing is all about dealing with a huge amount of variables. It is impossible to understand it all, but you can over time learn to discern what's important, recognize these, and capitalize.

Decision making is key. What things to be thinking about, what decisions to make, come from experience, and a whole lot of reading helps enormously in knowing the pertinent questions to ask when you're on the water. To get to the answers you've got to ask good questions -very specific questions, then you test them. That's what everyone means when they say, "Find out what the fish want." The better your questions the quicker you'll get onto fish.

Bites tend to be pretty specific to an area or type of area, and there are often key spots within. From your seat in the boat, it can a pretty specific combination of variables: Calendar period, temperature, conditions (sky and water), line, lure, and retrieve. This list is a great set of headings to formulate questions from -in that order.

Look for active bass -provided conditions are adequate. To do so, choose a relatively fast technique to cover water (actual speed will vary with season, temperature, and conditions) such as a SB, buzzbait, crankbait, swimming jig, Carolina rig, etc... and go look for fish that will bite.

Get to know your lake. If you don't find active bass and you know the lake, or have good advice, get yourself into an area that you know holds fish and try different sub-locations within, at various speeds, and triggers (this is where the devil lies -in the details of the retrieve). Don't know what triggers are? I'll give you the starting point: Vary you're retrieve -there's LOTS of ways to do that.

Don't get down if you fail. We all do at times. But eventually these times will become more and more rare. Realize, that under almost every set of conditions there are fish to be caught, you just have to put together the right string of decisions. And that's no small task.

[Catt]

I start deep and stay deep; usually some where between their bed room and their kitchen

Here's a little known secret if you are seeing bass suspending at 15' simply move to structure located in 15'. Now you're fishing on the bottom!

[fishfordollars]

When I start I idle out from the ramp with my electronics on. As you reach deeper water you will usually begin seeing shad or fish showing up at a certain level. This is how I start my search. If I am seeing activity at 10-12' I will look for structure that has a bottom at that level and search from there. I will have to adjust as the day progresses but that is part of putting a viable pattern together. Good Luck.

[Paul Roberts]

Catt and fishfordollars offer really good advice for shad based reservoirs, or deep natural lakes with pelagic (open water) forage. Which brings up a really good point.

Different lake types with different prey types offer different requirements, and affect the way you begin to narrow your initial search.

In natural lakes, and ponds, sometimes bluegills will behave pelagically (but not in tight schools like pelagic prey species), and perch do too, and often tightly, (but perch tend to be bottom oriented rather than up in the water column -except at night and very low light). For the most part both these prey types are more cover oriented.

How deep you need to look (to get started in your search) depends on the lake type, water clarity (the murkier the shallower the fish are likely to be), and forage type.

Then you start to narrow your search further by divining where in the water column your bass are.

[Zel]

Robby are those finicky Pennsylvania bass driving you nutz?  No consistency among different lakes?  What works today doesn't work tomorrow, although nothing has changed?  They just don't seem to follow the normal fishing patterns?  

You have been given many good tips here by others.  

But what I have found to be key here in Pennsylvania is knowing the particular lake.  I fish Beltzville differently than Mauch Chunk, differently than Harveys, differently than Nockamixon, differently than Wallenpaupack, differently than Fairview, differently than Tobyhanna, differently than Raystown each one differently because I've gotten to know each lake.  It almost seems like the bass in those lakes don't communicate with each other, or know the rules of what they are supposed to be doing.  I know it sounds funny, and probably a little crazy, but I can almost smell when an area will produce fish in those lakes.  Sometimes things just don't seem right in the spot you are in, and other times you know every cast you have a good chance of getting one.

Personally, I don't care about any other factors other than structure, vegetation and wind.  The one thing I do consistently is work top to bottom.  The more aggressive fish will be on top and more finicky the deeper you go.  If they won't hit on top or mid region then it leads me to think they aren't interested in baitfish, and I go with dark natural colored plastics on the bottom.  And when seemingly nothing works, I go to deep water (20+) and look for fish near structure hanging just off the bottom with a jigging spoon, blade bait, jig, or carolina rig.  Deep water fish seem to be less affected by factors that put off fish in more shallower waters.

I don't know if any of this answers your question.  It's just my experience fishing some of the same lakes you fish.

[fishfordollars]

Robby...I will try to expand a little. Early or low light I tend to fish high in the water column and will stay there as long as I am getting quality bites. Generally the bites will taper off as the sun gets up and I will start moving down in the water column as the day progresses. First stop I will try some type of top water or a lure that I can keep high in the column. I will not move from an area without dropping down through all depths to check it out. Does this mean I spend a lot of time? No, I may be on a creek, ditch, drain, hump, or point that I can check with 10-15 cast. I generally have 8-12 rods rigged with different lures to cover each layer that I intend to fish. As I relocate I may start at the predetermined depth that I think will give me the best chance to connect with the fish. If I get bit great, if not, I will check defferent sections of the column to see if the fish are staging at a deeper or shallower level. It is a timing thing with different types of structure and cover. Fish on a bare point or hump, or creek bend will tend to move a lot quicker that an area that has cover to give the fish an ambush point or a sense of security. That is why you have to check it all. If you are on the water for a weekend and you find three or four spots that you caught fish on Saturday, fish them in reverse on Sunday. Instead of going and fishing the same spots at the same times again on Sunday turn them around and start with the last spot first. You many times will discover that the later spots from Saturday will be the most productive spots with the larger fish on them when they are fished early in the day. The only way to know is to try.

[Paul Roberts]

Really good stuff here.

You don't have to know a lake inside and out to find bass. Pick an area with the most diverse cover types, the more diverse and convoluted the better, preferably a shallow flat or cove (remember I'm a natural lake guy) with some deep water nearby. Or, as mentioned, a point, channel, or hump (if in a reservoir). If it's a good lake there will almost certainly be some bass in such a location. They may or may not be the biggest fish in the lake, but they'll teach you a lot.

Then get busy. Start whittling things down as mentioned above.

[RobbyZ5001]

Great stuff guys! I was beginning to think this thread would flop like my others.  

[bubbler]

the beat way to target or find whitch part of the water colom the bass are is to use a wacky worm. fish all depths and see where the fish seem to be biting.