The Spawn; how long does it go on for?

[lknbassman]

Wondering if you guys have any input on this as to how long the cycle goes on? What actually drives it? Lunar phases, water temperature, or does it just go on for a certain number of weeks typically and then as some move out, more move up and spawn well into the Summer?

The spawn is most definately on right now here on Lake Norman in NC and the bass are all over the beds. I'm wondering how long they stick around and when fish generally start their post spawn migration patterns and begin to inhabit their Summer time locations? I know they will reverse their routes; Beds > mid creek structure/cover > deeper water Summer time location just as they were in Winter before warmer water started showing up and the days got longer.

Anyone got anything valuable to add on this topic? Would love to hear from you on this. I've not heard one significant data point so far that I'd consider credible. Nothing so far points to how long the cycle actually is and what dictates a shift in patterns. I have instead heard a crap load of mumbo jumbo that's less than half baked scientifically or based on anything other than what some guy heard at the boat ramp yesterday...

Let's hear from you guys who follow fish migration and take this as seriously as the rest of us who do. What's your take on the spawn cycle?  Thanks for your input, looking forward to reading your interpretation of what takes place this time of year.

[CJ]

Well...coming from a ledge fisherman, TOO LONG!

Really it would vary from year to year. But it can go on as long as 2-3 months around here.

I feel it's a combination. Photoperiod has something to do with "when". Water temps help dictate and moon phase (full) has been known around here to set it off.

Regardless, bass will remain shallow until surface temps rise to around 78.

[Catt]

On Toledo Bend the spawn will last 3-4 months  

[RoLo]

In Florida, the spawning season will often last 5 months (Mid-Dec to mid-May).

Since it lasts nearly half-the-year, the spawning season hosts a broad range of water temperatures.

But as CJ stated, the spawn apparently hinges on 'photoperiod', similar to the vegetable kingdom.

Perhaps a cold-blooded animal is halfway to a vegetable

Roger

[lknbassman]

So guys, with a spawn as long as you may normally see in say FL or TX, are you sight fishing almost exclusively during those periods and fish migration is not as much of a factor?  If not sight fishing are you working to pick fish off that are moving in to spawn or moving out after they have spawned?

What puts particular patterns in to your minds during those periods or does one particular pattern become the dominant one other than sight fishing?

[Catt]

I very rarely bed fish not that I'm against it but on Toledo Bend the bass are so far back in the buck brush, button brush, willows & cypress trees you can't get to the beds.  

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Lake X makes it easier to learn the spawn.  With such clear water, observation is readily available.  

This yr, we are going to back off the obvious and spend some good time looking for the ones you can't see, the deeper, bigger breeders.

(at least that's the plan,lol, it can be tough with hundreds of catchable fish in plain sight)

[Guest muddy]

I'm 57, usually a couple of hours and I'm shot

[Catt]

I'm 57, usually a couple of minutes and I'm shot

Fixed it for you

[Paul Roberts]

OK, ready for more head-scratching??? If I could figure out how to access more emoticons I'd pop in a devil face.

Anyway, as with most things in nature, the spawn is complicated (sorry!). But there are some known things: Basic needs that must be met. I'm defining the spawn as females actually dropping eggs. Males may dig nests prematurely, only to abort when conditions fail -Don't be fooled!

First, background context:

It's the "successful" spawns that set the limits of the bell curve (duration of spawn is one of these). There are always exceptions in nature, but the successful pass it on (and we anglers could get mighty bored targeting exceptions the tails on the curve).

One of the main limitations (called selective pressures by evolutionary biologists) is young of the year (YOY) reaching sufficient size to survive the coming winter. Thus timing and duration of the spawn is important if your genes are to be passed on. In the north, this particular selective pressure is intense. Less so in the south where winter survival pressure is much relaxed. Years vary too, as you can imagine. But, in the end, there is generally a bell curve distribution, corralling the majority of bass into a spawning window. Some individuals try to push the envelope of course. Most fail, especially in the north.

Selective pressures explains site fidelity too, whereby bass tend to return to the same places to spawn every year. What works is...what works! The repeaters are repeatedly successful.

How the Spawn is Controlled:

There is undoubtedly an endogenous (internal) rhythm at work, set the previous year. The actual timing is then mitigated by local conditions. As I presently understand it, from the scientific literature, and my own observations:

-Stabilized temps >60 for egg survival. The scientific literature says that bass eggs suffer high mortality below  60F. Thus temps need to be above that if a female is to be successful. Now I'm assuming this is the "hatchery northern largemouth" (used in lab studies and stocked all over), and thus this number may not apply to surviving (and now rare) pure native strains in pockets throughout the native range, or for the Florida subspecies, although, in general, floridanus has even higher temperature requirements overall. Or possibly for some locally adapted strains of originally stocked bass I'm personally not aware of any.

Temperature stabilization at appropriate temperature is a big factor in why spawning in deep bodies of water occurs later than in shallow ones, as deep waters take longer to warm. Large water bodies with several basin depths have a much longer duration of spawning as different areas heat at different rates. Huge reservoirs heat unequally too with the shallower upper areas going first, and the deeper colder lower lake coming on later. Why do late spawned YOY survive in these waters? Because massive water bodies cool slower in the fall too.

Anglers mention bass spawning in water colder than 60. There are a number of possible reasons:

1) They are seeing premature bedding of males, with no females involved Not actual spawning.

2) A cold spell that likely kills a lot of eggs.

3) Females pushing the envelope. Males are always ready to oblige.

4) A population (possibly native) that has adapted to a specific environment that was able to support a shift in egg survival temp.

-Long daylength It's been found in the lab that sudden short days can stop the spawn, then long days can re-start it. LMB in tropical waters (well south of their native range) spawn repeatedly all summer and suffer in size because of this they burn out.

-A friend sent me some research articles from hatcheries last year that indicated that the vast majority of spawning occurs during the daylight hours, likely due to important visual cues. These papers also indicated that virtually all spawning occurred in the late afternoon and evening.  An artifact of the hatchery environment? Maybe it's just a low light requirement, (as Muddy had me wondering in another post). This is something I'll be watching for this year.

-Sufficient food for fat stores to turn into eggs With enough food females may even develop more eggs and spawn more than once in a given year.

-Water clarity s an issue with most species because visual cues are important in the mating sequence. This is likely true with bass but I haven't seen much on this, (beyond interesting color changes in females). Events that bring high turbidity (suspended solids) can affect nest success, by suffocating eggs. Supposedly, in very clear water, bass are more apt to spawn deeper.

-Proper substrate: Silt and mud will suffocate eggs, so bass seek clean bottoms and clear water, and one of the male's duties is to fan silt off the eggs. Gravel seems to be preferred but in some waters success has been met on wood, or cattail root clusters.

-Water levels Receding water can stop the spawn; rising water can start it, after above criteria are met. This must be ingrained as dropping water can leave eggs stranded. Thus in many reservoirs, bass may spawn deeper than those in many natural lakes. As you can imagine water levels are also a big deal in rivers, since they can fluctuate so much. Waves can fall into this water level category I suppose: Large natural lakes exposed to wind and developing heavy waves on shorelines that destroy eggs will select out bass that spawn too shallow. In my ponds it tends to be 1 to 5 feet, with the majority on the shallow side of this. If the bass are spawning deeper in my ponds, I guess I wouldn't know if I can't see 'em.

-Moon influence appears, at this point, to be angler's lore. I cannot find anything consistent, much less definitive. Angler catch data I'm not convinced is a good sampling method for assessing spawn behavior. Bias is likely high too; I know it has been for me.

There may be a synchronization effect on spawn timing, with the full or new moon, when the other conditions are met. I've certainly seen intense spawning behavior under full moons, and was once sold on the idea. But I've been observing (and recording data) on spawning behavior the last couple seasons and am less enchanted about the moon. Last year the spawns in my ponds did not follow the moon, in fact if you just looked at that year, you'd say the full moon inhibited the spawn! Will be at it again this year, and next...

-Dense populations of nest raiders, notably sunfish, have been known to inhibit spawning in largemouths. What's interesting is that this is not always just an abandonment of the beds by male bass, but that the bass don't even attempt to spawn, when populations of small sunfish are too high.

-Where I've lived (NY and CO) the initiation of the gills spawn is the sign that the late bass have finished. But those bluegill colonies are prime feeding areas for post-spawn bass, notably large females. Don't miss fishing just outside those gill colonies.

[Guest muddy]

I'm 57, usually a couple of minutes and I'm shot

Fixed it for you

HeY,HEY: MY NAME ENDS IN A VOWEL>>>>COUPLE OF HOURS, UNLESS SOMEONE IS WITH ME

[Catt]

I still don't think that fishermen and even biologists really do understand the whole spawning rite, admits Ken Cook, a former Oklahoma fisheries biologist and winner of the 1991 BASS Masters Classic. There haven't been any real definitive studies done on it.

[lknbassman]

Paul, good insight on your write up.  I agree with the bream spawn being a hot time to fish for bass as it's "payback time" for the bass nest raiders.  I fish a Brian's Bees prop bait around that time and catch a bunch of fish but it's too early for that to happen right now as it's only about 65 degrees on average surface temp.

That being said, I trying to figure out how to catch fish that are not on the beds as I'm not a proponent of bed fishing, I say leave em alone and let em make more bass for us to catch in future years but that's me and everyone does thier own thing so it is what it is.

I've gone back out into the mid creek areas and fished points, docks, and the right contour lines but am getting a lot of followers and few bites.  With the spawn on in full swing on Lake Norman, I'm trying to figure out how to pick off the ones coming in and the others that are done and moving back out.  The only fish I'm seeing with any regularity are those on the beds and I'm not messing with them.  The lake has enough issues with stripers, gar, no grass, clear water, a ton of bream, etc for me to get in there and mess it up for them even more.  

Any ideas on how to catch em away from the beds during this time or is it just that grey area time wise when you either bed fish or you don't fish?  I'll be out there throwin regardless but I'd like to boat more like I did during the intense pre spawn sub 60 degree bite that we had going on a few weeks ago.  Jerkbaits, worms, and jigs on points crushed previous catch numbers this year but now it's hard to buy a bite if you are not aggrivating one on the beds to bite.  

The big females are in there, I've seen them and they are HUGE.  The males look like yearling bass next to some of these sows.

Thanks for any input on techniques to think about as I wait for the bream spawn to begin and the true Summer patterns to emerge.

[Paul Roberts]

You know, I just haven't seen the post-spawn blues, so often talked about. The females seem to come out of the spawn hungry! But they seem less willing to chase. Slower horizontal presentations seem to work best for me, but not necessarily "slower" in triggering. I use a jig-n-pig, and tubes. I tend to start by fishing a falling bait, near some prominant isolated cover on the spawning banks (but beyond the bedded males). I also try swimming these too, in smooth glides and falls, especially where there isn't a lot of prominent cover pieces to collect fish. I also try shaking a jig, or hopping it, sometimes even ripping it. Just be sure to allow time for the slower big females to catch it or so they know they can catch it. I fish worms too: smaller straight tails in brighter conditions, swimming tails (swum) for lower light conditions, and a wacky-rigged stick-worm for prominent isolated cover pieces that likely have fish.

Maybe it's just a location thing. The post spawn females I know, (in my small waters), remain around the spawning banks. I don't fish for spawners, either males or bedded females, but I do fish just beyond the locked males, as that's where I find the females. If you are looking deep you may be missing most of them. But maybe this is appropriate in your waters my waters are mostly quite shallow.

Another option, if you are fishing a large reservoir, (although you likely already know about this), is to move down lake to the deeper sections for the remaining pre-spawners, or way up lake for the first bluegill spawn. If not, I'd say that avoiding the spawning areas may simply be putting you beyond the majority of bass. Again, I too avoid fishing to bedded males and females, but the rest are fair game, and the spawning banks remain the key location, at least in my waters.

I know the bluegill spawn bite you are talking about! It's a real gift. I locate 'gill colonies, then fish just beyond them. This seems to attract females, and I catch a lot of big ones at this time.

[CJ]

Thats a good write Paul Roberts.

CJ