Question for Mr. Lusk

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

First off, welcome aboard and I apologize for not getting to meet you at Guntersville, I hear I really missed out.

I was wondering if you could clarify a few things for me?

Could you state what some of the criteria are for a lake or pond that could benefit from a selective harvest initiative?

Perhaps some of the things that the pro's assess before implementing such action?

[Daiwa]

Was there a post before yours LBH?

[SPEEDBEAD.]

First off, welcome aboard and I apologize for not getting to meet you at Guntersville, I hear I really missed out.

I was wondering if you could clarify a few things for me?

Could you state what some of the criteria are for a lake or pond that could benefit from a selective harvest initiative?

Perhaps some of the things that the pro's assess before implementing such action?

I believe his general statement was, "Take out as many as you think you need, and then double that number."

[roadwarrior]

Mr. Lusk was relating a conversation with Ray Scott, " After you harvest all the bass you think need to be removed, take out twice as many more!"  As I recall, no bass should be taken from the pond for three years. The key is "balance" and this must be monitored over time.

8-)

[SPEEDBEAD.]

Thank you for the clarification Kent.  

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Yea, I would never follow advice someone was giving to a specific person about a specific body and apply it to my lake, heck, I wouldn't attempt anything without proper state guidance.

This issue touches many threads and although we all may know what we think is right, we are not professionals.  I was hoping, as Mr Lusk is indeed the master of professionals regarding the subject, if we could get some input about the things they look at when assessing the status and population health of a lake.

If we use these criteria to assess the lakes we fish, we can OFFER OUR FINDINGS to the appropriate state office(s) if we feel there is a need or an issue with a particular body of water.

We are the grass roots, the eyes and ears.  These are OUR treasures to protect.

[WRB]

Lets hope that mr. Lusk replies to your inquiry.

Not being a biologist, we as anglers can eleuate the health of the lake or pond by the size of the bass and population of the fishery.

The first thing a biologist would do is access both those issues by electro shocking survey and evaulating the forgage base. Bass are usually the last fish added into a new pond or reservior, the forage base should be established first, then the predators are added into the mix, based on population density by acre feet of water and available structure, cover and prey.

Over population of year classes of bass can be very detrimental to the health of a small lake or large pond. Selective harvest and or slot limits are generally based on year class distribution. What type of prey is abundant or sparse and the dominate year class of the bass in the lake or pond.

If you are catching bass with big heads and skinny bodies, the lake or pond is over populated. If the bass appear healthy with several year classes are being caught routinely, then the lake or pond is more than like in good condition. Over harvesting bass by fishing pressure alone is possible on smaller lakes and ponds with heavy fishing pressure. Larger reseverviors, say over 10,000 acres, fishing pressure alone has minimal impact on the bass population ability to sustain a healthy level. Water fluctuations, severe drought and dease have a much greater impact on bass populations than sport fishing harvest.

WRB

[Bob Lusk]

Greetings fellas...home from a whirlwind trip and TV appearance on RFD-TV sponsored by Purina Mills. Dr. Mark Griffin, Ray Scott and I spent an hour last night talking about pond management.

One thing nearest and dearest to our hearts is "harvest" of a pond. Since I'm new on your forum, I would like to thank you for the chance to toss my thoughts into your ring.

First, to understand a harvest initiative, we must understand "balance." (Before I go far, I want you all to know that fisheries management is based on a handful of scientific principles surrounded by lots of common sense and art.)

Balance, literally, is when a fishery has the proper habitat and its fishery reflects what it needs by providing a variety of species of fish in a variety of sizes...and all size classes are in good body condition. In fisheries management, we watch "relative weight" (Wr or Rw) very closely. For example, if you catch a 14" largemouth bass, it Wr should be close to 100. Here's what that means, literally. In order for a bass to grow to 14 inches of length, it had to weigh at least 1 lb, 7 oz. Here's a chart of Wr for bass, so you can see where I am going. A 12 inch bass should weigh 12 oz. A 16 should weigh 2 lb, 4 oz. An 18" bass should weigh 3 lb, 4 oz and so on. Plot the length and weight on an x-y graph and you will see a distinct curve.

Use these "standard" weights as your comparison. Here's what typically happens in a well planned, well built and well stocked pond. The habitat is right, the proper numbers of forage fish are stocked, bass are added at the right time and we do the basic management practices. Bass grow, fast. Two inch fingerlings stocked the first year are well over 10 inches by the second year (south of the Mason-Dixon line). North of that line, LMB may make 8". By the end of the second year, our bass are pushing beyond an average of 14" long. The third year, bass are spawning (exceptions are in the north). By the end of the third year, we see young bass pushing that 8 inch mark. All this time, the food chain has continued to expand as the bass grow. But, at some point, normally in the third year, bass growth rates begin to slow down. That's our first hint that it's time to change. Up until now, we have practiced catch and release. Good management. As good managers, we are logging our catches, keeping good records of lengths and weights and plotting them on our little graph. Sometime in the third year, you will see the largest fish still growing exceptionally well, but those in the middle sizes seem to be leveling off. Soon, instead of seeing water teeming with little baitfish, we see mostly large baitfish. That's another sign...bass are beginning to get to the point where they are overeating their food chain.

Watch the bass. By the end of the fourth year, you are seeing bass who have obviously leveled off and some are actually in the 85 percentile Wr. That means these fish are healthy, but have lost weight. When you begin to see a dominant size class of fish that is losing weight, it's time to initiate a harvest program.

What typically happens, especially in ponds and small lakes, the larger bass continue to grow. The reason is simple...they have all they can eat. Keep in mind a 5 pound bass prefers a big meal. And if we have lots of young bass growing into the 10-12" class, our big bass have all they can eat.

It's those middle bass that put a kink in the food chain. While the largest bass continue to gain weight, those middle size fish are losing ground.

Those are the fish to harvest. As anglers, you can weigh and measure some bass, as long as you handle them properly. Look at the thread on handling...it's good. If you truly want to figure out when it's time for a harvest regime, weigh and measure some bass. The fish will tell you.

Do I believe in Catch and Release? Absolutely, especially in larger, heavily fished public lakes. In ponds and lakes with low fishing pressure, catch and release becomes fatal.

Here's a point to drive this home. A bass grows its fastest during its earliest months and years. Proportionately, bass double their weight about every few hours, then every few days and then every few months of their first two years. If a bass has limited competition and all the food they can eat, they grow exceptionally fast. If a bass spends much time at all without adequate food, their growth potential is limited. Essentially, that means if a bass doesn't grow as fast as possible its first three or four years, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance to reach its maximum potential. In my opinion, that's a big reason some of the best Florida strain bass top out at 13 or 14 pounds...because they sat at 10-14 inches for too long.

If that's the case, we need to harvest some of the excess bass in that clogged up slot.

Here's a summary..."balanced" means there's enough food to go around. "Unbalanced" means that a particular size class of fish has stopped growing, usually because that size class is overcrowded and underfed.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.....this fisheries management is fun. While we all truly want to protect the resource, part of that protection is to harvest the bounty, so nature can replace it.

[jrhennecke]

Excellent post and information Mr. Lusk.  Look forward to learning more from you.

[Glenn]

Outstanding post Bob!  I FINALLY understand the mechanics/science behind slot limits.  Well done!

btw - Have you stuck your finger down a fish's throat lately?  

[CJ]

WOW! Thank you for the outstanding post Bob!

CJ

[jiggerpole]

Good Info, and thanks alot. I have one question for you please. I have been heading a management plan for a 48 acre lake that was bass crowded. Mostly spotted bass. The water quality is great and P.H. It is fertilized and the population of brim are of all sizes now. We recently stocked treadfin shad last year. In the past three years we have harvested at least 3500 bass per year or more. (All Bass) The average weights were about 10 ounces. This is the first year the 3 to 4 inch brim class has been abundent. we still catch huge bluegill and shell cracker in the pound to sometimes two pound range. (There are no mid-size bass.) I changed my stradegy this season to the harvest of all spotted bas and the release of largemouths. Do you think this is on track? the bass that we are catching are in great condition and I have never seen so much bait fish in this lake before. Thanks in advance.

[Bob Lusk]

Yes, I think you are right on, if larger largemouth bass is your goal. Here's what happens. When a lake is seriously overcrowded with bass, 90% of the fish are the same size and the sunfish are large and old. As you harvest your overcrowded bass, several things happen. First, the sunfish and threadfin shad numbers begin to increase...temporarily. Then, you see a burst of growth of bass. They may jump from 10 inches to 12. Don't let that fool you into changing to catch and release. You're not done. If the lake has been home to slow growth bass for several years, you want to remove as many of those fish as you can. Their growth potential is limited. Don't worry, though...the lake won't let you remove too many too fast. It's the law of supply and demand.

As "balance" begins to occur, you will see Wr begin to rise. Weigh and measure your caught bass, as many as you are willing to collect data on. The more you weigh and measure, the sooner you will see the effects of your management plan.

The fish will tell you.

Here's an example. The very first lake I managed was a 50 acre jewel along the Texas/Mexico border in 1983. The first time I saw the lake was dusk one day in late May that year. We drove up to the shores, sat still and watched 10" bass chase dragonflies. Literally. They jumped out of the water hoping they could catch a dragonfly. I bet I saw 150 bass do that in an hour before dark.

The next day, we sampled the lake. Nothing but bass and they were seriously underweight.

So, we stocked 1500 adult bluegill, fertilized the lake, started a feeding program for the bluegill and the guys started taking out bass. They ate bass every way they could...ceviche, bass kabobs, fried bass, bass enchiladas. Two years and 3,000 bass removed later, they were catching a few bass over two pounds. Then two and half years later, they were catching a couple of four pounders. By the end of the fourth year, the new lake record was 8 pounds.

With spotted bass, remember that they won't grow nearly as large as a largemouth bass. So, if your goals involve growing bigger largemouth, keep harvesting the spotted bass and seriously underweight largemouth bass. It will work....

And Glenn....I usually disgorge a bass' lunch when I want YOU to see it.

Have a great day, all. I have a date to show some fish to 140 first graders in my hometown in two hours. Gotta go.

[Guest muddy]

Mr.Lusk: thank you for a very good explanation that has the science to back the post I am keeping this one. We are trying to get some fellas around to get the state to change from a 15 inch limit, at my favorite lake to a slot, this points us in the right direction.

[roadwarrior]

That be Bob!

Thank you.

8-)

[Tokyo Tony]

Very informative thread, thank you. I understand a lot more about bass management now, and now slot limits make sense to me  

[Catt]

Merci Beau Coup  

[flechero]

Tremendous info, Bob, thanks for taking the time to post all of it!    You answered several questions that I have about my home lakes.

[WRB]

Bob, you mentioned a relative weight to length chart to determine healthy verse under feed bass, was it posted?

The other questions are; do you evalute FLMB strain differently from NLMB strians? If not why?

You are from Texas, are you associated with the Share a Lunker program? Are you familar with the Share a Lunker program's genetic engineering (DNA gene splicing) to improve FLMB growth potential? or lower water temperature survivability to increase their range of distribution?

It has been my experience that NLMB rarely exceed a length to girth ratio of 85%, where FLMB normally exceed that ratio where abundant prey is available in California impoundments. Florida, the natural range for FLMB, the bass have apparently poor young adult size (1 1/2 to 3lbs) forage availble and don't achieve the same growth rates the FLMB bass do in CA and TX. Califronia FLMB have grown over 20 lbs in lakes without planted trout (lake Hodges for example), however those lakes have good populations of mid size prey fish, threadfin shad, sunfish and crawfish available, no larger bait fish however.

WRB

[Cory20]

Thank you very much Bob Lusk.  

[jrhennecke]

Maybe Mr. Lusk could get his own section like The Professor's Corner.

[roadwarrior]

** MODERATOR NOTE **

A few posts were deleted as a correction was made.

-Kent  a.k.a. roadwarrior

Global Moderator

[Guest muddy]

Never mind a sticky, Mr.Lusk could fill an e library up!

[senile1]

Great thread.  Thanks for the great information, Bob Lusk.  I just added this to my favorites.

[Guest muddy]

Mr.Lusk: can you steer me to some of your work, or some other links so ican figure out the slot issue a little more. I find this very interesting