Temperature Trends

[thetr20one]

Simple! Fish in all weather conditions. Cold raining,sleeting snowing, heavy wind ,bluebird days, hellish stormy days, ya got to be comfortable in all situations. Get good  set of raingear and you can fish in any weather!!!!!!

[Catt]

WRB not trying to start anything but aint that contradictory

Water temperature controls nearly every aspect of their lives

As long as the temperature is within the basses comfort zone, the DO levels are good, the PH is OK and food supply is there, the optimum temperature isn't a primary factor

I'll refer back to Ken Cook's answer

For much of the year, temperature really isn't that important. Bass can tolerate high and low temperatures pretty well. I only pay attention to my thermometer when it's very hot above 85 degrees or very cold which anything below 50 is. But if it's between 55 degrees and 85 degrees, temperature really doesn't affect bass behavior all that much.

Food is what really dominates the lives of bass; in the spring and fall, the "grocery store" is usually close to the shoreline and around cover like aquatic grass, rocks and docks. Small fish, crawfish, frogs and other creatures are most abundant and most active in shallow water, so that's where the bass will be. Oxygen is a limiting factor all fish need it to survive.

Ken Cook

[HesterIsGod]

Hester, your bass in river current observation is very neat. And I'll venture a guess as to what could be happening there: Heat challenged stream trout, (not at all uncommon in the many marginal streams and seasons throughout the country), approaching an upper temperature limit suffer oxygen stress and will move into stronger current in order to increase their oxygen uptake efficiency. They do this through what's called ram-jet ventilation, in which water can flow freely over the gills, rather than the trout having to pump it through. Thus, heat stressed trout move out of pools and into riffles. I've seen this myself in hot summers on marginal streams. I've never seen such a thing in bass, but, it's not unlikely. Bass can't go into too fast water because they aren't built for it. Just as different trout species have different capabilities in current: browns hold below the rainbows which can nose right up into the whitewater.

That is a very good estimate at what is happening in my situation but unfortunately it is incorrect. The lake that I fish is not and was never stocked with trout.

I think, and I may be wrong, that these bass that are in the current make short runs there during the day to feed on the buffet of forage options that the creek yields. After they feed they go back to the nearby current break and rest there conservering energy and are pretty inactive. It seems pretty logical that the bass could just ambush the prey from the current break. However, I have read in many places that the "ambush prey" theory is very inaccurate. The bass bodies are built much more for stalking and chasing down prey rather than bolting out and actually suprise ambushing prey. That is exactly why I believe that these bass move into the middle of the creek and eat whatever they can and then go back and remain in active, digesting food.

[WRB]

WRB: Thank you for adding I know very little about Bass Bio, I got the bug b/c when Glenn was asked for the most underutilized part of the site his answer was Bass Biology.

Bass however do not have schooling activity. They do sometimes exhibit traveling in groups, usually of the same size They do njot have organized shool activity: Like traveling and using organized escape patterns, reproducing in " school family " groups and oraganized feeding patterns, every bit of research I have read clearly states this

From the time the bass are fry, they school. Adult bass tend to group by size is true. Have you ever witnessed how smallmouth bass hunt in schools? or largemouth in wolf packs of 50 or more big bass from 7lb to 12 lbs.? I ounce watched a school of LMB cross lake Havasu, a distance of about 2 miles, that was about the size of a football field or several thousand bass. I also caught 18 bass that all weighed over 10 lbs., within 1 hour on a major lake point that were feeding on trout, I would  say those bass were a school. largemouth bass are predators, so technically they don't school to confuse other larger predators from preying on them, once they are big enough to feed on other prey. That could be what you are interpreted as bass don't school for defensive purposes but they do school to feed on other prey fish.

I was refering to Doug Hannon's statement on bass behavior, not always being in concert with my experience, as noted. Bass apparently don't school in Florida's smaller lakes, other than staging for pre-spawn. They school where I fish however.

WRB

[Guest muddy]

Bass are sunfish and they do not school. They do not have the same gentic makeup as their group member and again 3 important things that schools od: Oranized patterns of protection/escape, mating withing family groups and organized feeding. Florida or other wise, Oraganized feeding includes co operation among school members, bass do follow food source but they feed as individuals,there is no organiztion or srtuctured feeding.

  I am curious is it documented anywhere that yoiu caught 18 , 10 lb bass in one hour, that must have set the bassing world on it's ear!!

[Catt]

Come up to Toledo Bend any time after April and I'll show y'all schooling bass by the thousands.

But you better bring plenty top water baits and a strong trolling motor  

[WRB]

Bass are sunfish and they do not school. They do not have the same gentic makeup as their group member and again 3 important things that schools od: Oranized patterns of protection/escape, mating withing family groups and organized feeding. Florida or other wise, Oraganized feeding includes co operation among school members, bass do follow food source but they feed as individuals,there is no organiztion or srtuctured feeding.

I am curious is it documented anywhere that yoiu caught 18 , 10 lb bass in one hour, that must have set the bassing world on it's ear!!

Not a common achievement;  Matt Nueman had a very similar day at lake Casitas in 2005, catching a similar number of big bass off one point within a short time period and I believe Matt did have bass fishing magazines publish his catch as he is a pro and needs the publicity. Lets agree that bass travel in large groups at times, you call them what you want, they a schools of bass to me.

WRB

[Guest muddy]

Thats cool the question was: was your 18 X10lb catch in one hour ever recorded anywhere? Fishing off a deep point thats one fish every 3.3 minutes thats some fast fishing!

[WRB]

Thats cool the question was: was your 18 X10lb catch in one hour ever recorded anywhere? Fishing off a deep point thats one fish every 3.3 minutes thats some fast fishing!

Your point is? How long do you think it takes to catch hook and land big bass? You obviously have never caught big bass or several big bass during a feeding freenzy or you wouldn't ask the question. The longest time I have ever played a bass is about 2 minutes, usually about 1 minute. The people I wanted to know about the catch knew, plus my partner let a few more know. When you are trying to catch world record size bass the last thing you want is more boat traffic. Instead of questioning if I caught those bass, which is well known fact in the big bass circles, you should of ask where, when and on what lure.

WRB

[Guest muddy]

I asked the question I wanted to. That means you had to catch 18 , ten pound bass in 18 consrcutive cast, That is Amazing. My point is that is a hefty claim, and if a guy told me he hit a 700 foot home run I would ask him if it was documented also. I did it in a polite fashion and that is the question i asked, thanks for you answer. I realizse that is is possible to fight a fish to the boat in 3 minutes of that size but you still need time to take it off, check rig, recast and retieve and wiegh them

[CJ]

WRB,

I wanna know where? When? What Lure and presentation? Month? Time of day? Weather and sky conditions? Water depth? What bottom contour? Was there current envolved? Structure? How they were relating to the structure? Cover? How were they relating to the cover? Water temp? And since we're on the subject, water temp trend?

Seriously!!! I'm not doubting or calling you out. I really wanna know!!!

[WRB]

WRB not trying to start anything but aint that contradictory

Water temperature controls nearly every aspect of their lives

As long as the temperature is within the basses comfort zone, the DO levels are good, the PH is OK and food supply is there, the optimum temperature isn't a primary factor

I'll refer back to Ken Cook's answer

For much of the year, temperature really isn't that important. Bass can tolerate high and low temperatures pretty well. I only pay attention to my thermometer when it's very hot above 85 degrees or very cold which anything below 50 is. But if it's between 55 degrees and 85 degrees, temperature really doesn't affect bass behavior all that much.

Food is what really dominates the lives of bass; in the spring and fall, the "grocery store" is usually close to the shoreline and around cover like aquatic grass, rocks and docks. Small fish, crawfish, frogs and other creatures are most abundant and most active in shallow water, so that's where the bass will be. Oxygen is a limiting factor all fish need it to survive.

Ken Cook

I agree with Cook's statement. Except where I fish the shoreline is generally pounded by weekend fisherman and knowledgeable bass fisherman out west tend to fish more outside structure where the bstter size bass locate in deeper water just above the thermocline during the warm water periods. The bass tend to move up towards the shore at night when the boat traffic is off the water. Deep water offers the bass a sancturary, baitfish like threadfin shad and planted trout. Crawdads during the day tend to hide in deep rocky cover and move up at night and threadfin shad tend to move to wood cover at night, so the foloow thier food source. Lakes without fishing pressure could be different, just don't get the opportunity to fish private lakes often enough to know the patterns.

You may be reading into something that isn't there; if the water temperature is confortable for the bass, then it isn't a factor. The bass have located where they want to be and not forced to locate elsewhere due to water temperature issues. If the water temperature wasn't confortable, the bass won't be there. Hope that helps to clarify the statement.

I don't mind discussing the temperature issues, having a debate, everyone has a right to there opinions and hopefully the information can be helpful to readers. I have no time for and will not respond to personal attacks.

WRB

[CJ]

WRB, I'm not one to attack anyone personally. I think you took me wrong. I was serious. Sounded like a great day! Anyway let's forget I asked.

Back to the subject at hand:

I feel, temp and it's trend has everything to do with bass activity and positioning in the water column, cover, and structure.

Why do you think bass often suspend on sunny days in the winter and prespawn?

[WRB]

WRB,

I wanna know where? When? What Lure and presentation? Month? Time of day? Weather and sky conditions? Water depth? What bottom contour? Was there current envolved? Structure? How they were relating to the structure? Cover? How were they relating to the cover? Water temp? And since we're on the subject, water temp trend?

Seriously!!! I'm not doubting or calling you out. I really wanna know!!!

Lake Castiac, May 1991 around 9:30A. I was tutoring a local pro tournament bass fishing freind in his boat how to fish jigs so he could catch a kicker once in awhile. I had a box of jigs and decided to take along a spare rod rigged with a customized Scrouinger jig as a backup.

We had jig fished fo 3 hours and were running up the lake to another location when I noticed 3 or 4 blue herons standing on a point trying to catch fish and a lot big splashes near them. We stopped and I made a cast toward the splashes and got into a non stop bite until I broke off the only Scrounger I had. I offered Gary to take the rod, but he refused and was happy to help net bass, release them and keep count.

The point has a saddle where the bass had pushed up a school of trout and trapped them. The surface water temperature was about 72 degrees and a month past post spawn. The point is surrounded by 150+ deep water. Light wind with high overcast, mild May weather conditions.

The original Scroungers had small 3/0 hook and I modified it with a long shank 6/0 worm hook tied to the cut off original hook. I was using a prototype rainbow trout sluggo on a 1/2 oz Scrounger head. This lure was a secret at the time.

WRB

[Guest muddy]

Do you think that the for the Northern Strain of LMB this is because of their reproductive biology? I read somewhere for the Northern Strain, the females eggs have to get to a low temp in the winter in order to be fertile, someone help me out here if I read that wrong!! If they need to heat up for reproduiction, one of the stronger insticts perhaps this is why they suispend in the warmth of the sun, prespawn.

[Paul Roberts]

Paul, in my experience post cold front conditions have little to do with the sudden drop in air temperature, the water temp remains for practical terms the same than before the front, but the weather pattern associated to the passing of the cold front ( cloudless bluebird skies ) have a great impact, it 's the light penetration increase which causes the fish to either go deeper or bury into cover, it 's not that de fish develop a severe case of shutmouthitis, it 's just that most anglers continue to fish the same places at the same depth and the fish ain 't around there no more, in other words, instead of adapting their baits, presentations and locations they continue to fish when the fish aren 't there.

It 's a common mistake, they fish "the history" instead of fishing "the conditions". If the greatest bug is the light penetration then fish deeper or fish the conditions where the light penetration bug has less effect, like windblown areas or where there 's muddy water n 'such.

Raul, Excellent. Very much along my lines of thinking on cold fronts, at this point.

Hester,

I didn't mean there were trout in your water. I meant that the bass might be behaving similar to heat compromised trout, and taking advantage of ram-jetting. Just a thought.

Schooling:

As I understand it, bass don't school, in the strict sense. They commonly hunt in what are termed "aggregations" -like-size groups of 3 to ??? that are loosely coordinated. This is the most common hunting method used by bass -stalking and cornering prey in loosely coordinated aggregates. It is the way young bass hunt as soon as they start hunting as fry. In most waters, aggregates contain mostly smaller bass because this develops so early in life. As bass get older their groups get smaller by natural attrition. In most waters really big bass are virtually loners, in large part because there are so few of them. But, in some waters, notably in CA, I could see aggregates of big bass being larger.

Another reason for large numbers of bass being together -especially big ones: In many waters bass winter in large groups (I've often read about this for large reservoirs, and I see it myself here in my small waters too). This is why I believe groups of early-spring females are seen together, and females are the biggest bass in the pond. Every spring I see rather tight groups of females, as described earlier.

Technically (from a fish behavioral scientist's definition), none of these grouped behaviors seen in the black basses are considered "schooling".

Hey Muddy, go to bed! I'm signing out.

[Paul Roberts]

Muddy, there are anglers that have proposed the idea that female bass actually regulate the development of their eggs behaviorally -by moving to colder or warmer water. Rich Zaleski was a proponent of this at one time. I've tried to run tis down, through the scientific literature and through knowledgeable anglers. I'm sure there are fish reproductive physiologists out there that could speak to it, but I haven't found anything or anyone as yet.

It does appear that temperature is the final "straw" that brings female bass to the beds, so the idea is at least reasonable.

Ok, goodnight.

[RoLo]

This thread was slowly beginning to take shape, but then when I returned last night I noticed that it grew a couple pages

and the continuity had gotten a little ragged.

PAUL,

Early-on you mentioned that bass are "sunfish" which might explain their fondness for shallow water, sunlight and heat.

You were onto something then. But now you're saying just the opposite, that bass are not affected by the cold air in a cold front,

but move to avoid the sunlight. Never forget, bright sunlight without an arctic front will not create the same negative fishing conditions associated with a cold front, you need that cold air.

I've decided to skim over a few key points that have gotten skewed or obscured.

1) Sunlight does not bother the eyes of bass, that's why Nature didn't supply them with eyelids. When bass go underneath a dock, they're not hiding from sunlight, they using the shade to conceal their broad outline (ambush). Bass, especially large bass prefer the bright midday sun for optimal visibility.

2) Althouth sunfish do not actually pursue sunlight or heat, they enjoy the solar gain and bright light a warm-front will bring to them.

Again, sunny middays are deemed the best time of day to boat a trophy bass.

3) Water doesn't cool off as fast as air, but that doesn't mean it doesn't change the temperature of water (air's the only thing that does)

Cold-fronts are accompanied by stiff winds that drive the cold air temperatures into the water surface via wave action. Due to the greater weight of the chilled surface water it promptly trickles down until it reaches its depth of equilibrium (equal water density). The process is quickly repeated, the new surface layer is chilled, then trickles down to its equilibrium depth.

Bass ensconced in very deep water (rare in Florida) may not be affected for a day or two, and if it's just a minor cold-front, they won't be affected at all

4) To say that "a bass is a bass" no matter where you are is invalid. As you would expect, the optimal temperature range for Florida-strain bass (75 to 85) is about 10 deg higher than the optimal range for a northern-strain bass (65 to 75).

This differential is the cause of many arguments.

5) Given adequate oxygen, Bass feel no discomfort in any water temperature, therfore they never have to relocate on the basis of water temperature. I seriously doubt that bass would even have a clue as to which direction to swim. The direction to warm water and cold water is a moving target, and it changes according to a host of interactive variables.

6) More important than the static temperature value is the direction of temperature change, which will determine the disposition of bass.

This is one more reason why it's not logical for bass to seek a given temperature, which would be analogous to chasing it's own tail.

.

7)Technically, largemouth bass are not schooling fish such as crappies and walleyes. But they do gravitate to the same foodshelves, jump coves and staging areas, so they're commonly found in loose "aggregations". Typically, the smaller the bass the larger the school, and the larger the bass the smaller the school. This is population dynamics and is based on simple math. With each passing year, the population of the year-class diminishes. In fact, the very largest bass in the lake will often be a solitary fish (last of the Mohicans) or may belong to a small pod of 2 or 3 bass representing all that's left of that year-class.

Roger

[WRB]

4. Bass is a bass. The statement is valid, you can't compare a FLMB to a NLMB they are as different as a spotted bass and smallmouth bass.

Someday we will have separate records for each; FLMB are a different specie.

Having had the opportunity to bass fish in nearly every state and country that has bass populations for over a 40 year period, IMO bass are bass where ever you go, that is to say northern LMB behave the same in Arkansas as they do in Arizona. I have caught LMB in lakes north of Lake Of The Woods in Ontario Canada, that the locals didn't know they were in that lake. Once fishing for smallmouth, came across a secondary cove with a weed bed that looked like largemouth water and they were there, spawning in July. That is the furthest north that I have caught a NLMB.

continued...

in regards to perfered water temperature, that is dependant on the environment or lake classification where the specific "bass" (FLMB, NLMB, SM or Spotted) is located. Within their natural range you may be able to state a prefered summer or warm water range. The winter range is simply the warmest the bass can find with good DO levels and and prey. The pre-spawn, spawn cycle are definately tied to water temperature. If LMB spawn too early in cool water, less than 60 degrees, the eggs take to long to hatch; about 12 days, for the male bass to protect from eggg eaters, too warm; above 70 degrees, the bass must compete with bluegill (bream) for spawning sites and protect the eggs that only take 2 days to hacth. Both too cool and too warm of water relates to low spawn recruitment. The warm water or summer periods is open to available prey, confort zone/water temperature/sanctuary, prey sources are abundant. The fall transition again tied to cooling water temperatures and climate.

To state the FLMB prefer 75 to 85 degrees doesn't take into account for FLMB transplanted into the northern LMB southern range; California and Texas for prime examples. California reserviors that have a good FLMB population rarely have surface water temperatures that exceed 80 degrees and the bass go deeper during the warm water period to seek the thermocline where the water is closer to 70 degrees. I don't know what Amistad, Falcon, Fork and the other Texas lakes core water temperature are, or where the FLMB prefer to locate during the warm water period. The pre-spawn and spawn are very similar to CA.

WRB

[Paul Roberts]

PAUL,

Early-on you mentioned that bass are "sunfish" which might explain their fondness for shallow water, sunlight and heat. You were onto something then. But now you're saying just the opposite, that bass are not affected by the cold air in a cold front, but move to avoid the sunlight. Never forget, bright sunlight without an arctic front will not create the same negative fishing conditions associated with a cold front, you need that cold air.

Roger,

I'm being cursory with cold fronts here in this thread, even though it is certainly relevant, for several reasons:

I've got more observing to do, and because there is so little out there in the scientific literature that offers anything definitive even in terms of observations. I've read the accounts of divers and telemetry studies, and the results are so inclusive. Angler's observations and discussions I'm a bit skeptical of simply because angling is not always a very good sampling method in terms of fish behavior, and I'll clarify, in one way, shortly. Further, and interestingly, this seems to be an angler's issue, and not of interest to icthyologists of any sort, as far as I've discovered. Doesn't mean that it's invalid, but that is interesting. Maybe I'm just overlooking appropriate research.

The observations you mention where bass were observed with heads buried in vegetation and tail up following a severe cold front would be the most definitive, or better, most intriguing observation going. But I need some real verification on this, from the horse's mouth so to speak. Who did this, when, and what were their records like. No reflection on you, please. I have great respect for your knowledge and thinking skills they are quite apparent. This observation would be huge, if it indeed was the way it was portrayed by the writer.

I fully realize the seeming contradiction, but I'm not ready to go into it here. Believe me, cold fronts are on my mind, and I've some ideas about how it works, but I need more observations to wrap it up or discard it.

As to my agreement with Raul: I don't believe that sunlight is the entire answer -at a physiological level. I do believe though that that brilliant sun so greatly affects angling effectiveness that it obscures possible behaviors in the bass. Thus, I agree with Raul , very much, from an angler's perspective, but there is likely more to it from physiological/behavioral and ecological perspectives.

Very likely, a sufficiently COLD front could put bass down in a physiological manner, as was described in that lone IF article. But, how would an angler (without optics or diving) know given the following:

Start a thread asking, How do I deal with cold fronts? I'll save us the time and summarize:

-Fish deep

-Fish heavy cover

-Fish slower

-Use light tackle

-Down-size

What do all these things have in common?

These all are answers that would fit (like a glove) how to present to spooky bass under bright sun. Admittedly, though, with the possible exception of heavily stained or muddy water.

Where I am in Colorado, I am blessed with very consistent weather patterns: clear nights and brilliant sun in the morning giving way to overcast every afternoon. The response by the bass to lures is almost a 180.

Every morning I'm fishing under brilliant blue skies, and in my shallow waters I can see how the bass respond to my presentations. Here's what happens on EVERY cast: The lure flies through the air and the bass (and sunfish) bolt! So I cast VERY high to avoid this. Then the lure, and line too(!), land on the water they bolt! The line cutting the water on the retrieve causes them to bolt (only in clear water). Interestingly, I've devised ways of catching at least some of these fish they are catchable if you could get a lure near them.

Now, what might one do? Here are some good answers:

-Fish deep

-Fish heavy cover

-Fish slower

-Use light tackle

-Down-size

I have to wonder, if what is deemed post cold front behavior (in a lot of cases) could be largely explained by the above? Thus, my agreement with Raul.

Here's where I agree with you, but it's a matter of degrees (no pun intended). The magnitude of the cold front, of course, is a real issue a front that can actually affect the thermal mass of summer water, APPRECIABLY. Unfortunately I have virtually no good data on this, nor have I seen any.

What would really help is if I could get some guys to start taking some temps for me in specific instances. I've attempted to get on-line anglers to do some observing in the past but it hasn't amounted to much, so I'm reticent to ask. First, you might ask, Who the hell are you anyway some kind of crackpot? Second, it's time away from fishing but not a lot. But I'll put it out there anyway:

I could use temperature profiles in mid-summer (surface temps 78F or higher) from surface to bottom every time you go. If we're lucky we'll hit some post-frontal days (LOL), and see what happens to the temps and how far they penetrate. If you're game, shoot me a PM and we'll arrange something.

Your specific points and my responses:

1) Sunlight does not bother the eyes of bass, that's why Nature didn't supply them with eyelids. When bass go underneath a dock, they're not hiding from sunlight, they using the shade to conceal their broad outline (ambush). Bass, especially large bass prefer the bright midday sun for optimal visibility.

AGREED.

2) Althouth sunfish do not actually pursue sunlight or heat, they enjoy the solar gain and bright light a warm-front will bring to them.

AGREE WITH SECOND PART.

Again, sunny middays are deemed the best time of day to boat a trophy bass.

I'VE READ THAT FROM DOUG HANNON'S BOOK.

3) Water doesn't cool off as fast as air, but that doesn't mean it doesn't change the temperature of water (air's the only thing that does)

Cold-fronts are accompanied by stiff winds that drive the cold air temperatures into the water surface via wave action. Due to the greater weight of the chilled surface water it promptly trickles down until it reaches its depth of equilibrium (equal water density). The process is quickly repeated, the new surface layer is chilled, then trickles down to its equilibrium depth.

Bass ensconced in very deep water (rare in Florida) may not be affected for a day or two, and if it's just a minor cold-front, they won't be affected at all

I BELIEVE YOU. BUT I NEED TO SEE IT MORE DEFINITIVELY FOR MYSELF, AND I NEED NUMBERS.

4) To say that "a bass is a bass" no matter where you are is invalid. As you would expect, the optimal temperature range for Florida-strain bass (75 to 85) is about 10 deg higher than the optimal range for a northern-strain bass (65 to 75).

This differential is the cause of many arguments.

GUILTY OF BIAS. I UNDERSTAND THIS, BUT HAVE NEVER SO MUCH AS SEEN A FLORIDA LARGEMOUTH. I'M WORKING WITH NORTHERNS AND TAKE POSSIBLE FLORIDANUS INFO INTO ACCOUNT -A SUBSET. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT OTHER DIFFERENCES/SIMILARITIES APPEAR. ONE THING I'VE READ IS THAT FLORIDANUS' RESPOND MUCH MORE NEGATIVELY TO COLD FRONTS THAN NORTHERNS, WHICH MAY REPRESENT MY NIT-PICKING OVER THE INTENSITY OF A GIVEN FRONT.

5) Given adequate oxygen, Bass feel no discomfort in any water temperature, therfore they never have to relocate on the basis of water temperature.

I DON'T AGREE. FISH ARE KNOWN TO MOVE TO SEEK TEMPERATURE, AND I CAN SEE BOTH VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL MOVEMENTS BEING A PART OF THIS IN A BASSES LIFE.

I seriously doubt that bass would even have a clue as to which direction to swim. The direction to warm water and cold water is a moving target, and it changes according to a host of interactive variables.

PHYSIOLOGISTS HAVE DISCOVERED, AT A NEURAL AND BEHAVIORAL LEVEL, HOW BASS AVOID DISCOMFORT.

6) More important than the static temperature value is the direction of temperature change, which will determine the disposition of bass.

AGREED.

This is one more reason why it's not logical for bass to seek a given temperature, which would be analogous to chasing it's own tail.

NICE ANALOGY BUT I DON'T AGREE. AGAIN, MOVEMENTS MAY NOT BE LONG, (BUT CAN BE), BUT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF MOVING TOWARD AND WAY FROM HEAT.

7)Technically, largemouth bass are not schooling fish such as crappies and walleyes.

AGREED.

But they do gravitate to the same foodshelves, jump coves and staging areas, so they're commonly found in loose "aggregations".

AGGREGATION IS MORE THAN JUST HAPPENSTANCE, IT CAN BE COORDINATED, BUT MORE LOOSELY THAN WHAT'S DEEMED TRUE SCHOOLING, AND DEVELOPS FROM THE VERY BEGININGS OF A BASS' HUNTING.

Typically, the smaller the bass the larger the school, and the larger the bass the smaller the school. This is population dynamics and is based on simple math. With each passing year, the population of the year-class diminishes. In fact, the very largest bass in the lake will often be a solitary fish (last of the Mohicans) or may belong to a small pod of 2 or 3 bass representing all that's left of that year-class.

WRB, good stuff!

[CJ]

I may be getting to technical but it looks like you guys can handle it.

If a "bass is a bass" then I got a few questions.

1. Why do they spawn in different waves that stretch out over a two month period?

2. Why is it often that bass are caught at various depths on the same day? Expample: I've caught a 5 lb. 7 oz. bass two years ago on a chug bug in 4 ft. of water in July. The same day I caught another 5lb. 1 oz. bass 20 ft. deep on a jig.

3.Why do some tend to suspend while others hug the bottom?

4. Why do some bass choose to stay shallow year around and some look for deep water?

I guess you mean biologically a "bass is a bass"? To me saying a bass is a bass is a shallow statement. On my home lake never are all of them doing the same thing.

[Paul Roberts]

CJ,

Yup, biologically speaking, which does say a lot. But, be glad you have all those options available to you! You'll see a lot of those options, and more, as you travel to new waters.

I'd love to address each of your points, but I'm running out of time here. This topic sure encompasses a lot of ground. Maybe I'll get a chance later on this evening, or others will pick it up.

I'm going to be out of town for a week, flying out tomorrow AM.

[RoLo]

Nice post Paul,

We all learn from everyone else, but what we do with that mountain of data has a way dividing us into different camps.

Every morning I'm fishing under brilliant blue skies, and in my shallow waters I can see how the bass respond to my presentations. Here's what happens on EVERY cast: The lure flies through the air and the bass (and sunfish) bolt! So I cast VERY high to avoid this. Then the lure, and line too(!), land on the water they bolt! The line cutting the water on the retrieve causes them to bolt (only in clear water). Interestingly, I've devised ways of catching at least some of these fish they are catchable if you could get a lure near them.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe that it's 'sunlight' per se that spooks bass. On the contrary,

I believe that bass welcome sunlight because it enhances their vision underwater.

Instinctively, bass probably sense that they too are more visible and tend to locate on the edge of shade

peering over sunlit water. If catching bass is more difficult in sunlit water,

that's testament to the fact that sunlight is a benefit to bass. Bass in clear sunlit water enjoy maximal vision

and will react to everything they see. We call that behavior spooky,

but bass call it the cat's meow (we're at a disadvantage, not bass).

Now, what might one do? Here are some good answers:

-Fish deep

-Fish heavy cover

-Fish slower

-Use light tackle

-Down-size

I agree with that entire list, and might only add the use of neutral colors, nothing gaudy.

But why are we toning down our delivery if sunlight is the culprit? Sunshine does not cause torpor or indifference,

oppositely solar gain enhances the activity of sunfish (all life). On the other hand,

a downtrend in water temperature can and will cause a downtrend in bass activity and bass disposition.

It is a matter of degrees, and a short-lived cold-front with a small temperature differential (difference in air temp and water temp)

will barely affect bass even in shallow water. Conversely, bass in deep water (rare in my parts) won't be affected at all by most cold-fronts,

save a prolonged cold-front with a sharp temperature disparity.

4) To say that "a bass is a bass" no matter where you are is invalid. As you would expect, the optimal temperature range for Florida-strain bass (75 to 85) is about 10 deg higher than the optimal range for a northern-strain bass (65 to 75).

This differential is the cause of many arguments.

GUILTY OF BIAS. I UNDERSTAND THIS, BUT HAVE NEVER SO MUCH AS SEEN A FLORIDA LARGEMOUTH. I'M WORKING WITH NORTHERNS AND TAKE POSSIBLE FLORIDANUS INFO INTO ACCOUNT -A SUBSET. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT OTHER DIFFERENCES/SIMILARITIES APPEAR. ONE THING I'VE READ IS THAT FLORIDANUS' RESPOND MUCH MORE NEGATIVELY TO COLD FRONTS THAN NORTHERNS, WHICH MAY REPRESENT MY NIT-PICKING OVER THE INTENSITY OF A GIVEN FRONT.

I was born in New Jersey and the lion's share of my bass fishing took place in Jersey, New York and Ontario.

I've also lived six years in Georgia and going on ten years in Florida.

Bottom line, I've been fortunate in being exposed to northern-strain, Florida-strain and intergrade bass.

Aside from the obvious difference in growth rate, there's a significant difference between the attitude and behavior

of northern-strain and Florida-strain bass, and it's not illusory, it's blatant.

5) Given adequate oxygen, Bass feel no discomfort in any water temperature, therfore they never have to relocate on the basis of water temperature.

I DON'T AGREE. FISH ARE KNOWN TO MOVE TO SEEK TEMPERATURE, AND I CAN SEE BOTH VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL MOVEMENTS BEING A PART OF THIS IN A BASSES LIFE

I'm not at all surprised, because I'm pretty much on my own upholding this premise.

But just as you're from Missouri on the ramifications of a cold-front, I've yet to be convinced that fish experience any discomfort

stemming from water temperature alone. Human beings are warm-blooded animals and need to maintain a body temperature

of 98.6 deg F otherwise die. To warn us that we're getting out of safe range our body will produce discomfort (too hot or too cold).

In stark contrast, bass have no body temperature to maintain, so there's no need for a warning system that causes discomfort.

While ice-fishing on Budd Lake, New Jersey a yellow perch jumped out of the basin we shaved in the ice to store our caught fish.

When I finally noticed the perch it was apparently dead and frozen to the ice. I had to kick the fish a couple times to break the frozen hold.

To my amazement, about the 10 minutes later that perch was swimming in the basin,

looking none the worse for wear.

           However, when water temperatures reach an extreme they're usually accompanied by other phenomenon.

For instance, even though bass in coldwater may feel no discomfort, frigid water temperatures reduce

their metabolism and digestion and depress their aggression, a time when a dead minnows may be more successful than a live minnow.

Torpor causes no discomfort, it's no more painful than slumber. At the opposite end of the spectrum is hot water,

and though it may not cause discomfort per se, warm water has a lower saturation point for dissolved oxygen.

In Florida at least, oxygen is usually not a problem in water under 90 degrees, in any case, oxygen-deprivation is a secondary stressor

exacerbated by warm water, but the warm water per se causes no discomfort.

I'm not aware of any ichthyological study confirming the migration of bass triggered solely by thermal discomfort

that was totally unrelated to other stressors such as oxygen-deprivation.

I have read the results of poorly conducted studies that would leave the reader with that impression,

but none that you couldn't easily poke holes in.

I'll close with a little something I've learned about 25 years ago,

and it's done a pretty decent job of keeping me out of trouble.

It's founded on water temperature trend, but gives the angler a clue as to the current direction of that trend.

POSITIVE

Air temperature greater than the water temperature, regardless of the value in degrees.

NEGATIVE

Air temperature lower than the water temperature, regardless of the value in degrees.

Roger

[FD.]

WOW!

Ok but I have some questions....

Florida strain LMB.  They live, for the most part, in lakes that average 6' deep at most.  There are only a few waters in Fl that have over 30' depth and those are reclaimed phosphate pits or the occasional sink hole/spring.  And the temperatures on the surface vary from (observed) low 60s to 90+.

1) How much temperature variance can you possibly have in 6'?

2) If they do not move laterally and only vertically in the water column, can they actually get relief?

3)  Is dissolved oxygen content not the most important factor affecting their location in the water column?

4)  What do they do when we have a 10* drop in surface water temperature in a 24 hour period. (sunshine showdown 08).

5)  How does the barometric pressure figure into the equation?  With a dramatic drop in air temperature cause by a severe cold front it is usually accompanied by a drop in the barometric pressure.  How does this affect fish location?

My ten largest fish in the last year all came out of 3-4 ft of water.  About 1 a month over 4 lbs with an 8.3 in August, 10 am, clear blue sky, 85* water temp.

Lee

[RoLo]

I may be getting to technical but it looks like you guys can handle it.

If a "bass is a bass" then I got a few questions.

1. Why do they spawn in different waves that stretch out over a two month period?

The spawning season in Florida can span a period entailing up to half a year (December through May, some years into June).

In my opinion, the spawn is not tied to water temperatures as most believe, but is tied to photoperiod similar to the vegetable kingdom.

2. Why is it often that bass are caught at various depths on the same day? Expample: I've caught a 5 lb. 7 oz. bass two years ago on a chug bug in 4 ft. of water in July. The same day I caught another 5lb. 1 oz. bass 20 ft. deep on a jig.

That's the best question of all, and one that fishermen prefer to ignore.

Maybe I've got it all wrong, but I don't think we should picture any lake with bass shuttling back-and-forth between shallow and deep water.

Instead, we should picture a lake with bass simultaneously found in all parts and all depths above the thermocline/oxycline.

The most catchable bass are those who happen to be located where current conditions are most suitable.

In due time, optimal fishing conditions visit every part of the lake. Alas, if all your bass came from the 6-foot contour line

that's sure to create the illusion that all bass migrated to the 6-foot depth line (well maybe...or maybe not)

3.Why do some tend to suspend while others hug the bottom?

Hey, nobody likes a wiseguy

As opposed to popular view, I think that the suspension phenomenon dovetails into my belief

that bass resist depth change. Bass have a swim bladder (not all fish do) and that would indicate that they were not designed for frequent or rapid depth change. If a bass lying 6 feet of water begins to punch out across the lake, he'll remain suspended until he rejoins the bottom in 6 ft of water.

Suspended bass are notoriously difficult to catch, and that may be largely due to their preoccupation.

4. Why do some bass choose to stay shallow year around and some look for deep water?

Some bass are just stupid I guess ;D

I don't know the answer, but it's a marvel of Mother Nature.

She has ways of gleaning maximal utilitization from every lake.

Roger