Concerned about a public pond

[JCrzy4Bass]

Hey guys,

I live in Northern Virginia around the Woodbridge area.  I have this public pond that I love to fish and started fishing in June of last year.  There are some nice sized 2-4lb fish in this pond and I think mama may be even bigger.  Anyway, here's my situation...

Last fall around November I noticed two to five otters inhabiting the shorelines and making a huge stick pile by the d**n area.  I also noticed them diving under the water continuously and sometimes coming up with not only sticks, but fish.  Not sure of how many bass they consume here.

I did some reading and found that adult otters can eat up to 21 and a half pounds of fish a day.  I haven't seen these guys in the pond since probably early January between icings.  So I think they may have left as I also read that they move between 5-47 miles in search of other bodies of water after getting their fill in the previous spot.

My question is if I see these guys again what can be done as far as my part to contact the right person to see if they can possibly move them or rid them to another area?  I don't want the population in this small 2 acre pond to suffer (it's actually a little smaller than 2 acres).

The other thing is it had to have been someones property in the past since there are houses in the area, but locals all fish it now and there are no "no trespassing" signs or "no fishing" signs in the area.  Who do you think would be in charge of the pond and be my main contact?

Would I call the fishery dept for my state and see if there is any re-stocking they can do?  Or will they not focus their efforts on a small public pond?  Also do you think they could do a sampling to find out what the current population looks like if someone asked?

I doubt they'd do all this work, but this is one of my favorite after work spots to go when I'm in a crunch for time and it's a great place to see other wild life and fish for multiple species like bullhead catfish, black crappie, and big blue gill.  Any ideas?

[jrhennecke]

I'd call your local wildlife agency.  If nothing else they should know who owns the pond.

[JCrzy4Bass]

Apparently according to the game and fish website they are not a "nuisance" and they say this about them:

Beaver

The main complaint about beaver is their ability to destroy ornamental trees, usually in the yards of stream or lakeside houses. The only way to discourage a beaver is by wrapping trees in chicken wire or other heavy metal sheeting or wire. The tree must be wrapped to a height of 4 feet to be effective against a full grown beaver.

If this does not solve the problem, you can contact your local game warden for a permit to have the beaver trapped and euthanized. Moving beavers to other areas is not permitted under Virginia code. Moving them usually only relocates the problem to another area where the same problems then occur.

In other words looks like I'm sol. I may call the closest place or game warden I can find but I bet he'll tell me sorry can't do anything

Although I did find this:

http://www.dgif.state.va.us/wildlife/nuisance/trappers/index.asp?fips=153

Apparently there are trappers for my county who will trap beavers according to the chart. However it says landowners can call, so since it's public I wonder if they will still do it. I doubt it...

My thing is there is a whole area of wetlands right down the road, so maybe they could bring them there?  Just this one dang on statement kinda messes it all up:

"Moving beavers to other areas is not permitted under Virginia code"

That sucks.  Maybe I can still see if someone can get a sampling of the pond...

[fishizzle]

I hear they make a nice jacket ;D

[Kevin Guidry]

Beavers or Otters??????????

[Raul]

What do beavers have to do with otters ? they ain 't the same.

[BIG M]

if it's beavers then say thankyou and get ready to wear out the fish around the lodge and other fresh cover put in the water.

if it's otters kiss you pond and all the bass good bye, they will clean it out.

[garry77]

If it's beavers they aren't eating fish so no worries.If it's otters consult the help of an old smelly trapper(if it's legal in VA.)

[Marty]

I'd contact your local DNR office. They probably won't do much, but they'll also probably be happy to answer any questions you have.

[HesterIsGod]

I fish a local public pond that had 3 muskrats doing similiar things to your pond. They only eat small fish, however, like bluegill. Started noticing less bluegill. Also, They kept putting sticks at the outflow of a creek that left the pond. One local guy actually shot two with a bow one day. Not too sure if it was legal but it worked and the bluegill population bounced back quickly.

If the ottors are hurting your ponds fish population that in return hurts all the fisherman who fish it and in turn the community. Take the situation into your own hands, dont just let it happen. Trap them if you can at first since that is legal, and if that method doesnt work just shoot them one night. I wont talk if you dont

[beechnut]

Just put the three S's to work..Shoot, Shovel, and Shutup

BP

[Paul Roberts]

For the record:

Beavers and muskrats both are rodents and both are herbivores. They do not eat fish. Beavers eat the cambium layer of certain trees and shrubs. 'Rats especially love cattail roots. Both make mound nests where material is available. Otherwise they dig burrows at waterline.

Otters are carnivores that specialize on fish. They are threatened or endangered over most of their range. It would be a serious legal offense to disturb them in any way. In fact, I highly doubt there are otters in VA, but I'd check that out.

Bass are ubiquitous, otters threatened to endangered everywhere. Beavers and 'rats won't bother the bass.

[Rayraff]

1# Invest in a small .22

2# Pick a quiet day and shoot them

3# Make a nice fur coat

[HesterIsGod]

For the record:

Beavers and muskrats both are rodents and both are herbivores. They do not eat fish. Beavers eat the cambium layer of certain trees and shrubs. 'Rats especially love cattail roots. Both make mound nests where material is available. Otherwise they dig burrows at waterline.

From the Chesapeake bay programs' field guide study of muskrats,

"Muskrats feed mostly on the rhizomes of marsh plants, but will also eat fish, frogs, insects and shellfish."

From nature works,

"The muskrat eats aquatic vegetation like cattails, sedges, rushes, water lilies and pond weeds. In some areas it also eats clams, mussels, snails, crayfish, small fish and frogs."

I forget, are bluegill small fish? :

[Guest muddy]

Those DEP guys have a habit of looking the otter way

[Sam]

To determine who owns the pond you will have to go to the Tax Assessors or Revenue Department's office in the jurisdiction the pond is situated and look up the addresses of the homes surrounding the pond. The clerks will be very helpful.  Just have the addresses of the surrounding homes or take a map with you to show the clerks where the pond is located so they can find the tax records.

The records will show you if the adjacent property owners own the pond.

They can also tell you if anyone individual owns the pond or if the pond belongs to the city, town or county.

After completing your reserch, contact the Animal Control office and speak with an officer or the director.  Do not speak with 1) the receptionist or 2) a secretary.  Speak with a person who has some authority.

Ask them what can be done to remove the animals, if anything.  Don't be surprised if they say "nothing" as they probably do not want to get involved.

The Virginia Department of Game and Inand Fisheries may tell you that you cannot touch or harm the animals.  They may tell you that it is not legal to trap and then release the animals at another location.  But call them and get their input, anyway. Be sure to speak to a Game Warden (or their new nomenclature, whatever it is) in the Richmond office or your local game warden that is assigned to your jurisdiction.

After doing all of your research, if the pond is owned by the adjacent property owners or an individual, you will have to contact them for permission to do anything to the animals.  Be ready to be "shot down" as most non-fishing types love all animals and do not want to harm them in any way.

So, the bottom line is that you may find it difficult for assistance at the state or local level and you may have to take circumstances into your  own hands.

Remember, you will need to double check the laws for discharging a firearm within the jurisdiction as once you pull that trigger the police or deputies will be on their way.

A bow and arrow may  be sufficient, but you have to be an excellent shot to get one with an arrow.

Trapping them would be nice but then getting near them to set the trap; retrieving the trap; and taking the critters to another location to release them is a major problem.

You can try to poision them but once again, can you harm the animals based on state and federal laws?

And should anyone see you doing anything preceived to be illegal the law enforcement officers will be on their way.

Let us know what you do, if anything, and the amount of jail time the judge gives you when you get caught. ;D

[Paul Roberts]

Hester, I never knew muskrats would eat fish. Neat! I'll adjust my record LOL

Regardless, fish certainly isn't a their usual food. I certainly wouldn't be too concerned about them, or beavers.

I have seen where 'rats can affect pond levels slightly by burrowing into the dam causing leaks.

I worked at a private duck preserve that maintained several ponds and the beavers would sometimes dam up the overflow. Man what a job to clear that out!

Several ponds I fish have beavers (all have muskrats), and the DOW has erected a chicken wire fence at the outlet, and around some of the trees around the pond. They've also fenced the area around the beaver dam so no one will disturb them.

I enjoy seeing them. Man, I'd LOVE to see otters.  

[Grey Wolf]

Well , are they beavers or otters ?

[JCrzy4Bass]

Ok I did some research. Don't know how common otters are in VA. But the things I'm seeing in this pond ARE INDEED otters. I looked at plenty of pictures and have seen these things up close. Definately not beavers.

This is also supported by the claim that I have literally seen them swim by the rail I fish from holding a fish in their mouth bringing it to shore. DANG IT!

I never shot a firearm... and if these things are endangered I'm definately not going to get involved. I may take sam's route and find out who owns this thing by going to the correct office and get a couple of my friends who fish the pond regularly to help me out and see if a "few" rather than just one can make something happen. Thanks for your suggestions guys.

More than likely I will just have to see this great pond die off. Or maybe I'll be lucky and the stupid things won't return. One thing is for sure they made a huge pile of sticks and wood over by one of the shoreline areas.

Also after thinking more about it. It makes sense that they are river otters because the occoquan river has a marina right across the street where they easily could have come from. Wetlands to the left of the marina directly, the river in front, and across the street... my pond. It all makes sense.

Also I found this one a nature website: Otters live in burrows on the bank of the water body, often under the roots of a tree.

The place they made that burrow is on under a trees root (big tree) sitting elevated above the pond on an elevated shoreline.

Also just found this direct from VDGIF:

River otters were nearly extirpated from Virginia during the mid-1900s. Reintroduction and natural reproduction have created hotspots in the state for seeing this very curious mammal. Early morning and late evening are the best times to see otters. ...

Now I'm screwed!

[Paul Roberts]

Wait and see. This pond may be fine. I certainly wouldn't write off a pond because of otters. They may end up specializing in certain size fish -likely the most abundant of a certain size. This would be a great question for DNR people working on their otter reintroduction project.

You know, you can expect ponds to vary over the years in bass populations anyway. Otters or not, your pond may end up with some poor hatch years, and poorer fishing down the road. It's pretty common to have waters become hot fisheries, then poor, then hot again. This is more than norm than otherwise.

I'd definitely report your otter sighting to the DNR. They will probably want to know about them, if they don't already.

If anything, one of the cool things about being anglers is the cool things we get to see that so many others don't.

[hunt4]

There are 2 ponds that are on our land along a small river. Ones about an acre and the other is about 4. Twice otters have cleaned them out. The otters will eat all the fish from the pond, then move on to another pond. This will give you time to think that they are gone, and let you restock it. Once you think everything is going good you will start to notice piles of scales lying back on the ground again. One of my friends sank a trap in his pond with a frozen  bass in it and caught two in a week. Hasnt had a problem since.

More than likely the fishing in your pond will have declined dramitically if these are indeed otters that you saw.

[HesterIsGod]

Hester, I never knew muskrats would eat fish. Neat! I'll adjust my record LOL

Regardless, fish certainly isn't a their usual food. I certainly wouldn't be too concerned about them, or beavers.

Yeah they prefer vegetation like cattails but this pond doesnt have very much if any so they choose small fish as a substitution to survive. I agree fish isn't their usual food and others should not be concerned about them in their ponds, I was merely using them as an example of how to handle the otter situation