Why dont they have 2 records for Largemouth bass? N & S?

[Del from philly]

always wondered why they clump together the record for largemouth bass.

i mean, they should have a record northern strain and a record southern strain,

am i right? everything i have seen didnt clarify.....

i mean, why not let people around my way go for the northern record instead of being put out of the race by people from cali and florida?

any yankees feel my pain?

[JCrzy4Bass]

I honestly think it would be way too hard to regulate. Guys sending in pictures from different states claiming it's one strain of that particular fish, etc when it's another. I mean I don't work at the state department for inland fisheries here, but I'm sure with all the paperwork and pictures these guys get and stuff theyd on't do a very thorough job looking stuff over for such minor details.

I mean I know there are some of you guys who could tell the difference between every strain as soon as you see it, but not everyone can. That's just one of my small beliefs. But as you pointed out, I do think if they had a good way of implementing it, it would be a lot better. The more records out there to chase the more purpose there is for these hawg hunters and so forth.

[Del from philly]

I honestly think it would be way too hard to regulate. Guys sending in pictures from different states claiming it's one strain of that particular fish, etc when it's another. I mean I don't work at the state department for inland fisheries here, but I'm sure with all the paperwork and pictures these guys get and stuff theyd on't do a very thorough job looking stuff over for such minor details.

I mean I know there are some of you guys who could tell the difference between every strain as soon as you see it, but not everyone can. That's just one of my small beliefs. But as you pointed out, I do think if they had a good way of implementing it, it would be a lot better. The more records out there to chase the more purpose there is for these hawg hunters and so forth.

maybe they could put it in zones? i mean, a guy in PA isnt going to be able to catch a florida strain bass...

the record already depends on a lot of trust, probably too much

i mean, people could do that with the state records now, they could bring in a florida bass......

it could work, but your right,. it would be more than tough,

[tntitans21399]

Why have 2 records?  You have a state record you can aim for.  

Then the you would have to split it in North East, South East, South West, North West, then you have some lakes and rivers that are in different states and that would be a lot of work for the agencies, and unnecessary waste of money.

[Del from philly]

Why have 2 records? You have a state record you can aim for.

your probably from the south....

just joking, but i guess your right, it would just be nice to be able to go for a world record....

i mean, technicly, the biggest state record in the ne is probably the world record northern strain LM

i guess i look at these monsters that weigh in at 15 lbs and it angers me.....i feel like its cheating when it is clearly not

im a sore loser,,,......AND EXTREMELY JELOUSE!!!!

[tntitans21399]

Just think the world record was in GA for the longest time, I think 50+ years (don't remember actually years), and now it is in CA, so the south doesn't have the world record Largemouth, the west does.  We do still the record Smallmouth.  But if your in another country you don't have either record.

[JCrzy4Bass]

maybe they could put it in zones? i mean, a guy in PA isnt going to be able to catch a florida strain bass...

the record already depends on a lot of trust, probably too much

i mean, people could do that with the state records now, they could bring in a florida bass......

it could work, but your right,. it would be more than tough,

Not a bad idea. I mean the only area it would present a problem is lakes or river systems where there are multiple strains. Like down here in Va we have Briery Creek Lake. In the 80s or 90s they stocked Florida Strain Bass in the lake. Now not alot is known about whether or not this particular strain has survived up to the current times however fish of that strain have been pulled out over the years. And what has happend is that strain had bred with the Northern Strain and created a new strain of aggressive bass which is currently in here. Don't ask me the name as I have no clue. This is all from what I have read and heard about from locals and people that fish this particular lake.

Now whether they have a name for this particular strain or if it is just a genetic difference in this one particular strain thus not creating a new one, I'm not sure.

But it is my belief if they do it for this one strain they are going to have to come out with new regulations for each particular strain of bass or new "records" so to speak and supply information on which strains are found in which lakes.

Then we run into the problem of certain people catching these fish and misinterpreting them for a different starin as stated before. It's just a lot of work. But I do believe it could work if implemented correctly. Good idea overall.

[roadwarrior]

Just think the world record was in GA for the longest time, I think 50+ years (don't remember actually years), and now it is in CA, so the south doesn't have the world record Largemouth, the west does. We do still the record Smallmouth. But if your in another country you don't have either record.

George Perry still holds THE World Record (6/02/32).  The California bass was caught illegally (California State Regulations) and does not qualify for recognition by the IGFA.

8-)

[Matt Fly]

As mentioned, there are too many variables to identify to ensure that the fish being submitted did actually come from within the zones as you mentioned.

If you make special rules for Bass and WR's, then the next step would be for us hunters in the south to ask for WR zones for our smaller deer in the south, compared to the northern horses ya'll grow.

Not ever state is created equally.    northern states also have ice shanty's and we don't get that luxury in Texas.

We don't have pond Ice hockey either.     We don't get to snow ski and such.    If we want to participate in those endeavors, we must travel.  

I'm gonna say leave it as is.   Its the holy grail of most freshwater records, the change that now would only water down its true bench mark.

matt

     

[Del from philly]

As mentioned, there are too many variables to identify to ensure that the fish being submitted did actually come from within the zones as you mentioned.

If you make special rules for Bass and WR's, then the next step would be for us hunters in the south to ask for WR zones for our smaller deer in the south, compared to the northern horses ya'll grow.

Not ever state is created equally. northern states also have ice shanty's and we don't get that luxury in Texas.

We don't have pond Ice hockey either. We don't get to snow ski and such. If we want to participate in those endeavors, we must travel.

I'm gonna say leave it as is. Its the holy grail of most freshwater records, the change that now would only water down its true bench mark.

matt

     

GREAT STUFF!

I just feel like a 10 LB bass in Pa would be a big deal, and in cali or florida or texas it would be nothing...

just seems strange they dont identify the difference....

also, what if somebody caught a 18 lb fish in Pa??? nobody would care??? might not be possible, but ya never know

to me, that would be bigger than catching a 22lber in florida anyday....

[Paul Roberts]

Excellent question -holy moly!

Excellent responses too. I agree, without expensive genetic testing, maintaining meaningful "official" records would be impossible.

But, this does not mean that magazines, and angler webpages couldn't offer meaningful recognition of angler catches, for boasting (not my thing) and better, for the information.

This might be done on a regional (like IF does it), or better, a state by state basis. I think states with a known history of Florida strain bass stocking could be highlighted in red, as well.

The largest northern subspecies largemouth ever caught was a 15+ freak taken in MA. Otherwise all others seem to peak out in the 11lb range. An accurately weighed 6lb northern largemouth is a rare fish in the majority of lakes and ponds throughout the country. Maybe an 8 in the south, although again I think floridanus states should be noted.

BassMaster magazine's Lunker Club only recognizes bass over 10lbs! This entirely precludes entry for the majority of anglers across the country. I also think it sets an unreachable bar and set of expectations for anglers around the country.

I have to say I'm tired of hearing about 10lb bass here in the north. Every kid has a story of such mythical beasts seen, lost, or caught by a buddy. I don't mind the sharing of the dream; It's the unrealistic proportions of that dream that bothers me. Not that there aren't 8 and even 10lb bass in the north, but not in the frequency I hear of them. I think a lot of this has to do with the unreal expectations set up by the media (magazines and TV bassin').

Excellent topic.

[jwo1124]

I didn't read everyone individual posts, so forgive me if someone already entioned this, but, why don;t you just focus on your State's record largemouth bass. That is truly the only fair way to do it seeing how bass have a longer feeding/growing season down south, not to mention guys can fish for thm more often than the northern guys due to ice over. You;d be suprised to think that Northern Bass cant get that big...The Massachusetts State Record for a Largemouth Bass is 15.8 lbs. caught in 1975 out of Sampson Pond in Carver, MA by Walter Bolonis. Got that straight from the mass.gov/wildlife web site.

Imagine a 15 lb. Lunker swimming around in your local pond!!!!!      

[Del from philly]

im really not even talking about myself. im no record chaser.

i just feel liek these huge bass get all the credit.

They should put more emphasis on the strain. It would nice to know what the world record northern strain bass would be. Does anyone have any idea?

Your right though, you could just concentrate on state records....i just dont see why we clump 2 seperate strains together when their is such a difference in size and wieight.

Im basicly a sore loser from the north!

[Paul Roberts]

Johnnydel, your NOT a "loser", and that's the real point here. The magazines that tout only floridanus subspecies bass, and those that get sucked into the myth, are the real losers. And by "losers" I don't mean the derogatory sense of the word here. It's a lost perception of what a 3, 4, or 6lb bass means in most waters.

[senile1]

I like it as is.  Every region has its advantages.  If you want to catch hefty northern Pike and Muskies, living in the North is to your advantage.

[JCrzy4Bass]

Johnnydel, your NOT a "loser", and that's the real point here. The magazines that tout only floridanus subspecies bass, and those that get sucked into the myth, are the real losers. And by "losers" I don't mean the derogatory sense of the word here. It's a lost perception of what a 3, 4, or 6lb bass means in most waters.

Great point Paul. I had a friend three months ago move down to Florida. Never caught anything over 2.5lbs here in Northern Virginia. First week in Florida she reeled in and landed an 8lber on her local pond down the road from her house. Since then she's reeled in some over 5lbs as well. Here in Va that is like almost a once in a lifetime fish unless you fish a few select lakes in the southwest region of the state on the border of NC. It's all perception based.

In Va, a 5-6 lb fish is a hog. I don't care who you are and what you've caught. At least around the Northern Va parts. These catches only come few and far between.

Most importantly be proud of any catch you make regardless of size. You got that fish to bite, you were able to manipulate the bait in a way that triggered that fish to believe it was a real living thing or a dying thing. It was your skill, and yes maybe sometimes part luck that got that fish on your line. Enjoy each catch. Cause in these winter months and ice overs we have in the north and the DC area in Northern Va it sucks not being able to go out and reel one in.

I think the guys in the south in places like Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc aren't as humble or lose touch with the sport a little and forget that all it really is about is the fish on the end of the line and the fight you are given, where as the guy who pulls in a 2-3 lber in the northern states is extremely excited.

And let's face it we all brag about every great catch because we are fishermen, we are competitive and there wouldn't be anything to shoot for if we didn't have anything to beat or a previous catch that just wow'ed the heck out of us. We all brag! But not only that, we share our experiences, because each is a story that we all can enjoy and relate to.

And I just want to say I'm not turning this into a debate over who's better than who, everyone of us is on the same plane, other than the god gifted pros and semi pros who have worked their butts off for what they own and do on a daily basis... I wish I had what they did.  

So to end that particular statement I'd like to mention there are great guys on this forum that make absolutely incredible catches on a consistent basis that are as modest as I've ever met. And the great thing is they are always willing to share their experiences and knowledge with us.

And who knows, if we moved down there we'd get sick of 2-3 lbers too. All we would want is fish over 7-8 lbs. We'd think less of ourselves if we couldn't do that. It's based on region and the average available fish to be caught.

If you don't have 8-10 lbers in your region, spool up some light line in the 4-6 lb range take your light pole with a stiff action and go out there and catch em' that way. It's the closest thing we'll be able to get.

[powerman970]

Maybe they should have one world record per zip code that way we could all have one.  The bottom line is, if you want a shot at a record fish, then go to where the record fish are instead of asking for the rules to be changed so that your odds are better.  I live in the south and I could make the same argument as you, but instead, if I want to catch a record fish I'll get a plane ticket to California.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or start anything.  I just feel that one of the biggest problems with the world today is that everyone wants everything either dumbed down or made easier to suit them or their situation.  Think of it this way....Wherever that next record bass may be, most of the population is nowhere near it.

[Del from philly]

Johnnydel, your NOT a "loser", and that's the real point here. The magazines that tout only floridanus subspecies bass, and those that get sucked into the myth, are the real losers. And by "losers" I don't mean the derogatory sense of the word here. It's a lost perception of what a 3, 4, or 6lb bass means in most waters.

nice thought out responce, im glad i posted this topic....GREAT ANSWERS...funny how the opinions vary

Its just funny hearing people dismiss a 2lber like a dink. They actually call them dinks and everything...lol...

to me, if i get a 2lber in, it was a good day. If I get a 4 lber in, im happy for the season!

i have my pic of my 4.2 lb smallie right above my desk like its a world record....

Great point Paul. I had a friend three months ago move down to Florida. Never caught anything over 2.5lbs here in Northern Virginia. First week in Florida she reeled in and landed an 8lber on her local pond down the road from her house. Since then she's reeled in some over 5lbs as well. Here in Va that is like almost a once in a lifetime fish unless you fish a few select lakes in the southwest region of the state on the border of NC. It's all perception based.

In Va, a 5-6 lb fish is a hog. I don't care who you are and what you've caught. At least around the Northern Va parts. These catches only come few and far between.

Most importantly be proud of any catch you make regardless of size. You got that fish to bite, you were able to manipulate the bait in a way that triggered that fish to believe it was a real living thing or a dying thing. It was your skill, and yes maybe sometimes part luck that got that fish on your line. Enjoy each catch. Cause in these winter months and ice overs we have in the north and the DC area in Northern Va it sucks not being able to go out and reel one in.

I think the guys in the south in places like Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc aren't as humble or lose touch with the sport a little and forget that all it really is about is the fish on the end of the line and the fight you are given, where as the guy who pulls in a 2-3 lber in the northern states is extremely excited.

And let's face it we all brag about every great catch because we are fishermen, we are competitive and there wouldn't be anything to shoot for if we didn't have anything to beat or a previous catch that just wow'ed the heck out of us. We all brag! But not only that, we share our experiences, because each is a story that we all can enjoy and relate to.

And I just want to say I'm not turning this into a debate over who's better than who, everyone of us is on the same plane, other than the god gifted pros and semi pros who have worked their butts off for what they own and do on a daily basis... I wish I had what they did.

So to end that particular statement I'd like to mention there are great guys on this forum that make absolutely incredible catches on a consistent basis that are as modest as I've ever met. And the great thing is they are always willing to share their experiences and knowledge with us.

And who knows, if we moved down there we'd get sick of 2-3 lbers too. All we would want is fish over 7-8 lbs. We'd think less of ourselves if we couldn't do that. It's based on region and the average available fish to be caught.

If you don't have 8-10 lbers in your region, spool up some light line in the 4-6 lb range take your light pole with a stiff action and go out there and catch em' that way. It's the closest thing we'll be able to get.

[JCrzy4Bass]

4.2 smallie is a pig in my neck of the woods too.  I only smallie fished four times last year and caught 8 or 9.  Learning trial.  However you should have seen my face glow when I pulled in my pb 1lb 13oz.  Lol, now I look at a bunch of the bigger ones and I'm like wow I got some work to do even in my area.  But I'm proud of the catch none the less.

[Paul Roberts]

Powerman, LOL a record per zip code! That's good. I might just have mine LOL!

My point isn't about world records, although admittedly that's what the original post mentioned. It's about the appropriate perception and recognition of big bass.

A glaring example is the BassMaster "Lunker Club" that only recognizes 10lb and up largemouths. In more than half the country, that's not even possible! What's up BassMaster?? You have readers all over the country, and some pretty proud anglers with their 6 or 7lb northern largemouths! (Is that akin to a 10lb florida?? I dunno what the number might be.)

Correct me if I'm wrong Johnnydel, but I think that was the gist of the thread?

[WRB]

There should be a record for each type of bass; Smallmouth, Spotted, nothern strain largemouth and Florida strain largemouth.

The differences between each bass is easy to identify. Spots have teeth on thier tongue, smallmouth have connected dorsal fins, northern strain LMB have 8 front dorsal spines and 58 pore lateral line scales, Florida strian have 9 front dorsal spines and 69 pore lateral line scales. The only issue becomes the Florida/nothern LMB intergrades. However all LMB with 59 lateral line scales or more should be classed as Florida strian, regardless if it's F1 to F3 generation or a Texas genetic engineered LMB.

The length and girth difference between FLMB and NLMB are substantial. NLMB rarely have a girth that exceeds 80% of the length and FLMB usually have a girth exceeding 90%. This means that a FLMB of the same length usually out weighs the NLMB. Example;

using the Length X length X girth / 1200 formula:

28" length, 80% = 22 1/2" girth (max), 28" with 90% (avg) 25 1/4"

The 28L X 22.5G = 14.7 lbs., max for NLMB

The 28L X 25.25 = 16.5 lbs., average for FLMB

however if you use 95% girth, 28L X 26.6G = 17.4 lbs

The maximum a NLMB could weigh is 16 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

The maximum a FLMB could weigh is 20 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

FLMB have been known to grow to a length of 32 inches (WR), nothern is around 29 inches. Two very different bass and they should have their own record status.

WRB

[Sam]

No, just won't work.

Take college football for example.

The BCS and AP rank teams from all over the country as to their strength and wins.

But when you look at the SEC and LSU and realize that they are so good it makes the northern teams from the Big 10 and Ohio State look bad in comparision.

Not to say there is anything wrong with the Big-10 and Ohio State. Saying that the southern teams and conferences are just better.

Southern fishing is just better.

End of subject.

Period.

[JCrzy4Bass]

Dang on! WRB knows his bass.

Sam, what you say about southern fishing definately being better is true (aside from smallies up north at Lake Erie). But that is different than talking about why or why certain fish should be seperated into strains. But I do give you the fact that the two are very hard to compare against each other (bass strains), and should be left as seperate entities... but that just helps the fact that they should be split up into different records.

And ps: I'm a BC fan... I beg to differ about those southern teams, but that's for another time lol.

[fishizzle]

Obviously the easiest way to solve the problem is introduce the florida bass to the north

If scientists can clone animals or grow someone another arm with stem cells, they certainly should be able to figure out how to make a Florida bass survive the winter in the north

Oh wait you still have a longer growing season

forget what I said

[WRB]

No, just won't work.

Take college football for example.

The BCS and AP rank teams from all over the country as to their strength and wins.

But when you look at the SEC and LSU and realize that they are so good it makes the northern teams from the Big 10 and Ohio State look bad in comparision.

Not to say there is anything wrong with the Big-10 and Ohio State. Saying that the southern teams and conferences are just better.

Southern fishing is just better.

End of subject.

Period.

Based on your logic we should have Western bass, more national championships in football and the biggest bass on the board are all from the west.

WRB