Finding them PT 2

[MattStrykul]

Sweet thread Muddy, but I think we should have a thread full of information about finding bass and forage..I thought it'd be nice if it had its own seperate thread.

~Matt Strykul

[Catt]

Ok tell us how you do it  

[MattStrykul]

The reason I made this thread is to find out how I'm not very good at finding them

[mayassa]

Just look for some shade. Fish dont like to be in the sun it get hot, and structure of course!

[Ky_Lake_Dude]

Just look for some shade. Fish dont like to be in the sun it get hot, and structure of course!

I have to disagree because believe it or not the largemouth bass is not a true bass it is a member of the sunfish family

[tyrius.]

The reason I made this thread is to find out how I'm not very good at finding them

Without knowing what types of water you fish and where you are this question is impossible to answer.

[MattStrykul]

This thread is not just for me, I mean finding fish in general. I'm sorry if I made this sound like I was just asking for help, I meant for this to be a place for everyone to chime in on how they like to locate bass.

Anyhow, I just got my new bassmaster magazine and in the Refresher for fishing the fall article, Hank Parker says "Don't be too concerned about fishing until you locate the bait". How do you guys do this? Do you use your graphs, see them on top, both? How do you locate them on your graphs? They say to use your graphs and also look for birds. Anyone have anything else?

[tyrius.]

I try to determine the predominate food source for each pond that I fish.  I just went tonight where the pond is relatively new and very well kept up around the edges.  I only see a couple of frogs and never see any signs of crawdads.  Tied on a bluegill patterned crankbait and dove it down to the weeds.  Caught 5 fish in an hour (two nice ones and three dinks).  

Now I fish from shore in small lakes/ponds so I don't have access to any electronics.  I try and figure out the depth of cover by feel alone.

[Catt]

Sometimes the best fishing you can do is just using your graph, no rods.   The more you graph things you know, the more you learn to decipher.

Such as: take your boat to the launch ramp, what does cement ramps look like on your graph. Look at the thickness of the bottom line on the graph, is it real thin or wide, what do rock dams look like on the graph.

What does Hydrilla or other vegetation look like on your screen?

When you parallel a bridge in passing, how long does it take the bridge piling to show up on screen as you pass them, and what do they look like extending up on screen?  Trees, brush?

Learn what the graph is showing you by going to areas you know what's down there.

What does muddy bottoms graph like.    

Learning these simple things can make you an excellent tracker by using the graph to take guess work out of potentially good areas.

Hookem

Matt

[Matt Fly]

Good post Tommy,

  I was thinking some of those same things.

Matt

[Fish Chris]

this is how I find them;

Say I'm starting on a new lake. I start hopping from one likely point, or hump, or layed down tree to the next. I throw an 8" Hud, or sometimes a loud, obnoxious wakebait (MS Slammer) maybe 3 to 8 times at each spot, always watching closely behind my lure as it comes into view. It doesn't matter if I stick one or not. If their is a big fish there, their is a good chance it will follow my lure, and give itself away in the process.

That becomes "spot #1" on the map in my head. And I continue on. After making my way around a lot of the lake (or, if its a small lake, the whole lake) I will go back through my list of spots where I saw good fish, and fish them again.

The next trip to that previously new lake, I will hit all of the spots I saw fish at before, plus try to hit less obvious spots that I might have missed, or bypassed before.

After I have fished a lake several times, I get to where I only fish spots that I know have held big bass on previous trips, and I rarely waste time on spots that haven't shown me anything. This means I will often fish fewer spots, more times throughout the day.

I've often said, just let me find a big bass, and the battle is 3/4's over. I will go back.... and back... and back.... until that fish slips up and makes a mistake ;-) Their is NO such thing as an uncatchable bass..... Their are just some highly conditioned bass which are MUCH tougher to catch than others.... and these are usually the largest ones :-)

Peace,

Fish

PS, I just love the "hunting and stalking" aspect of trophy bass fishing :-)

[slomoe]

great post fishchris.  

[Matt Fly]

   A new lake is rarely a mistake that happens.   Very few jump in and hook the boat and just take off, destination unknown.     First you make that decision of where to go.   In short, we obviously have electronic info infront of us to help find some facts out about a new lake we may want to give a try.    

How I find fish on lakes I have very little or no experience on.      I find all published info on said lake.     Can be local paper, state fishing reports, local lake caster news/ADs paper.  forum questions, and I like to have a topo map to familarize my self with some of the points of interest as info comes in.    What are the lake records?   What are the stocking reports over the years.    When was lake built,    Any vegitation?   timbers, rivers feeding in?  creeks?    If possible, I'll drive around and area surveying the dry land for miles around lakes.   What you see above, will be what is below the water.    THe same dry creek that runs a few miles away is the same one that is now under water for years.    What kind of timber is in the creek bottoms of the dry creeks.   Chances are, those same types of trees if above water can be identified by sight, and I shouldn't need a map to see that a creek channel under the water is over there.    Learning simple things, although they seem hard is really not if you want to really learn.     Know that if the lake has some flats, it should be full of mesquite trees like the surrounding land has also displayed.     I'd like to find out if this lake has striper, hybids in it also.    That tells me that there is a good gizzard shad population, and possibley some threadfin also.     I also have theory on some lakes and that depends on the lake layout, that if striper and hybrids are present, that some lakes fish better shallow for LMB.    NO proof other than productive days versus non productive days in shallow shoreline over deeper areas mainlake.       Now you can start to apply seasonal movements with current weather patterns.     Knowing the wind has been out of the east for 4 days straight helps me look at certain points instead of them all.     Fall is coming and yet the temps have been in the high 80's to low 90's and the lake should be close to turning over, so fishing might be tough the next couple of weeks, or the lake has turned and the fish are making the seasonal push to feed up, and most of the shad population is no longer on the main lake areas, they have pushed up the major creek arms.      I also found out through some old magazines that Birch Creek produces more big bass than any other area on this lake.    

                 I'm still not on the water.  

Any one ask LBH, Hawg_Hunter, and Triton 21 how they approached lake Fork for the first time for the first Annual lake Fork get together?  

Would I go to the trouble for a lake that I just want to fish to say I did.   Not as much.   But if theres some money to be had or a big she pig I'm after, I'll learn what I can before going.    

The rest of the equation is the time of the year and what phase of seasnal movements the bass are currently in.    knowing that fall means changing weather and patterns will change as the weather does.    And that could be very Rapidly.

Example   Harris Chain or Toho in Florida.    I have seen the canals that connect the lakes.    Do these lakes have creeks like we have in Texas?    Do bass relate to these canals in the fall to chase shad like they do in our creeks in the lakes in Texas?     Coming from Texas, I would be looking for rivers and creeks that shad normally migrate into just prior to the water temps dropping.     Knowing these little pieces of info before hand will help you decide on a starting point.

Know thy seasonal patterns, know thy bait fish, and you should be able to find a starting place.

I'd go back and look at some of Raul's post in 2006, some great bass biology, and very good points from a Dr. of Vetinary.

Hookem

Matt

           

[Raul]

How do I find them ?  :-?

Difficult to explain in words something that tells me where I can find the fish, not a sixth sense but something like that.

Ok, here 's the deal, I 've been fishing for bass for the past 27 years, and a completely different world from the stocked rainbows I used to fish for in the pay to fish lakes and ponds around Mexico City when I was a kid, stocked trout can be extremely stupid if you know what I mean. When we moved to where I live now there is no trout, bass rules supreme as THE gamefish here. At the beginning my success was marginal, I caught them when they were in the mood to strike an in-line spinner or a Rapala Minnow, which I have to say are the least of the times. Bass can also be very stupid if the conditions are right which is not often the case, also, I admit that I just didn 't have the experience nor the gear to fish for bass.

As years went by and after getting skunked most of the times I began not only to purchase gear better suited for bass but also gained experience as to where to find them,

First thing I learned: ROCKS attracts bass ! why ? from a biological standpoint there 's an entire microcosmos that takes place at the rocks, algae grows on rocks, algae feeds tiny crustaceans & insects, small fish, tadpoles & crawfish, which in the next step of the food chain feed level 1 & 2 predators and bass is a predator which includes it 's own offspring in it 's diet. Also, rocks give predatory fish like bass the opportunity to have a place where to ambush it 's prey and privide those littles creatures with shelter in the cracks and crevices.

I know that ROCKS attract bass so if the lake has a rock covered dam the first place I would try would be the dam. I normally catch fish at boulder covered dams, the more irregular rock coverage the better. Rock accumulations on the lake also attract bass, if the lake has such accumulations and I can see them or find them with my depthfinder you bet I 'll be there casting my baits.

Second thing I learned: CURRENT attracts bass ! current in my case is not that easy to find, where I live rivers and creeks only carry water during the rainy season and they become bone dry once the rainy season is over, but that doesn 't mean I can 't take advantage of it when it happens. Those tiny insects & crustaceans that feed on algae are not strong enough to swim against the current, they drift in the current and become easy prey for fish like minnows and bluegills, where the food is the fish will be and it applies to bass, if it 's food source is there they will be there.

If the lake is spilling at the spillway or the valves are open .... guess where I will be ? casting my baits on the other side of the dam ? .... NOPE, I will be in the close vecinity of the spillway or valves casting my baits because I know the fish will be there.

Third thing I learned: WIND attracts bass !, it 's similar to what happens with current but as an opposite, wind drifts all them itsy bitsy forms of life to where it 's blowing which will attract it 's predators which will attract bass.

Fourth thing I learned: CHANGES attract bass ! muddy water to clear water, small rocks to big rocks, a sudden change in the slope, shadow to bright sunlight, one type of weed to another type of weed all those changes draw bass to them.

When I go to a new lake I don 't tie the first thing that pops into my mind, when I go to a new lake I look at it, look at the terrain, it 's contour, it 's vegetation, the composition of the soil; what I see tells me a story, it 's a matter of knowing how to read the story and look for those things I learned through time in a completely different place, I know that bass are bass here and in China what lures them in my home lake also lures them in any other lake; I know where I 'm going to find them.  

Add to that my experience of 35 years as a fish hobbyst, plus what I learned about anatomy & physiology, etology at vet school and I know with what and how I can catch them.

For instance, how do I find a river channel ? in my neck of the woods certain trees only grow naturally in certain places, willows in my neck of the woods only grow where the soil is moist year round, that only happens at the river & creek channels. I can identify a willow even if it died decades ago, I know that the channel is at or very near the main, river channel bed means rocks mixed with sand, river channel also means a sudden change in depth, if the spillway or the valves are open the channel being the deepest part in that area serves as a current creator.

[Guest muddy]

WOW NOW HERES STUFF I CAN USE FOR nATURAL LAKES TOO.Hey Chris; if you do find a big bass, do you switch up on baits or do you keep throwin the one that got it's attention in the first place?

[Catt]

Big bass are controlled by certain environmental factors; you must understand their basic environmental needs.

To add to those listed above here are a few more  

Reproduce effectively: most bass spawn in fairly predictable places with the following criteria:

A solid bottom: Bass avoid soft, muck bottoms; instead they prefer to spawn on hard sandy bottoms, gravel or rocky banks, large boulders or even a fallen log or lily pad root.

Shallow water: The fertilization and hatching process requires the warmth provided by sunlight penetration which is the fish migrate into shallow water (with the exception of deep, clear western reservoirs). Bass will bed generally in a foot to 6 feet of water, but former Classic champion Guido Hibdon says he has seen Lake of the Ozarks large mouths in water so shallow their backs were sunburned their back and fins were actually hard and dried out.

Protected coves: When possible, bass will bed in water that is sheltered somewhat from the elements like in a cove or pockets.

Feed efficiently: Big bass feed more aggressively, but they also feed more efficiently (maximize food intake and minimize energy output). They also eat the most and are first to respond to feeding opportunities.

Prosper during extreme seasonal changes: Big bass live such a simple live that it goes straight over most anglers' heads. They are located on prime structures that contain specific elements that include a good sized feeding flat. That flat would ideally be heavily weeded, with a number of weed types and open pockets 4 to 8 feet deep. Other kinds of cover like trees, stumps, brush or rocks are also beneficial. Deep water down to 17 feet or more as near as possible and better yet, if there were a source of inflowing water, like a creek.  

[Matt Fly]

BassResource at its best.      You got FishChris way out on the left coast, Raul soak'in the heat up down in Mexico, and Catt down on the bayou, adding some of his spice to the recipe.

Some of BassResource finest cooking at its best.    

mattstrykul,

Hope this helped you out.

Matt

[Catt]

Raul

When I go to a new lake I don't tie the first thing that pops into my mind, when I go to a new lake I look at it, look at the terrain, it's contour, it's vegetation, the composition of the soil; what I see tells me a story, it's a matter of knowing how to read the story and look for those things I learned through time in a completely different place, I know that bass are bass here and in China what lures them in my home lake also lures them in any other lake; I know where I'm going to find them.

Matt

If possible, I'll drive around and area surveying the dry land for miles around lakes.   What you see above, will be what is below the water.    The same dry creek that runs a few miles away is the same one that is now under water for years.    What kind of timber is in the creek bottoms of the dry creeks?   Chances are, those same types of trees if above water can be identified by sight, and I shouldn't need a map to see that a creek channel under the water is over there.    Learning simple things, although they seem hard is really not if you want to really learn.

This is step 1 in finding them; look at this computer generated photo of Toledo Bend, what do you see?

This is what I see:

The contour of the lakes bottom is extremely hilly meaning lots of depth changes

There are numerous creeks running into the lake meaning lots of fresh water run off

Creeks are highways bass us to travel from one area to the next

Creek running through hilly country means numerous drop offs

There are numerous roads meaning lots of roadbed which again are bass highways

Starting to get a picture?

[Raul]

Toledo bend looks from the pic similar to Zimapán here in Merry Ole Mexico. Perhaps the only difference between TB and Zima could be that TB is built and floods a hilly terrain, Zima is built on a series of canyons, steep sloping banks, lots of chunk rock of different sizes, landslides, vertical solid rock walls, smalles stone structures ( hills ) covered by water which act like huge humps.

I grew up in bass fishing fishing a several lakes ( La Laborcita, Otates, Duarte, Ojo de Agua de los Reyes ) a few miles from home, the City of Leon was originally established on a valley and it 's surrounded by mountains, it 's in those mountains where the lakes are located, those lakes share the same characteristic, the dam was built between two mountains and has a feeder creek entering the lake on the upper side, the terrain is in practical terms the same for all of them, so is the terrain composition, unlike Zimapán ( chunk rock ) these lakes have solid sedimentary rock but the contour is similar. That 's the main reason why the boulder covered dam is more productive than the rest of the bank.

I see tons of points and coves in that pic of TB, I 'm pretty sure I can find the fish there.  

[Matt Fly]

Tommy,

           If somebody told me to hit win blown points on T Bend, I'd need two weeks vacation and a bionic arm.

Wheres Rolo, we had west Coast, Central, Mexico and now looking for east coast input.

Matt

[Raul]

Anybody wanna see my everyday lake ?:

They don 't call it "La Sauceda" ( Willow Lake would be the translation ) for nothing:

[MattStrykul]

BassResource at its best.      You got FishChris way out on the left coast, Raul soak'in the heat up down in Mexico, and Catt down on the bayou, adding some of his spice to the recipe.

Some of BassResource finest cooking at its best.

mattstrykul,

Hope this helped you out.

Matt

Yeah it definetly helped. I really just wanted this to be an informative post for everyone, and it is turning out well.

[Catt]

What's fascinating is everyone asks How do y'all find em but when we have outstanding anglers like Matt, Fish Chris, & Raul explains how to no one comments or asks questions.

Either they all totally understand it or it when straight over their heads

[surfer]

What's fascinating is everyone asks How do y'all find em but when we have outstanding anglers like Matt, Fish Chris, & Raul explains how to no one comments or asks questions.

Either they all totally understand it or it when straight over their heads

I will coment. Thanks all for sharing. You have answered 10 times more questions than I could have thought to ask.  

[roadwarrior]

What's fascinating is everyone asks “How do y'all find em” but when we have outstanding anglers like Matt, Fish Chris, & Raul explains how to no one comments or asks questions.

Either they all totally understand it or it when straight over their heads

I think the posts have been somewhat overwhelming and totally comprehensive. We have to get out on the water and try to experiment with an overload of information. With this fundamental format, almost everyone can "kick it up a notch".

Next on the agenda, let's address fishing a river, current and brown fish.