need help fightin the biguns!!!

[FatBoy]

I need some advice BAD!!!  I catch a lot of 1-2 lb bass around here, but when I do hook into a 2+ lb fish my percentage of getting the fish in is bad.  I lost a 4+ lber this morning.  Here's the story...

I was fishing from the bank in a small pond.  Senko, 4/0 Gammy EWG, yozuri hybrid ultrasoft #6, St. Croix MF 6'6" rod, shimano stradic reel.  Made a cast to an isolated clump of weeds about 20 yd to my left and 8 ft off the bank.  Saw the line move and set the hook.  Fish on!  It immediately dove into the weeds I cast to, but I kept steady pressure and she came free pretty quick.  The fish made a run for deeper water and I just kept steady pressure.  Turned around and made a jump and I got my first look...this fish was long and fat!  That's when the adrenaline started pumping and I started praying.  

After that she made a run toward me.  I steered her around some weeds and she kept running down the bank toward me and into the shore.  So I HAVE to take in line to keep some pressure on her.  Well, the result is that she's now at my feet in 1 fow and I only have about 8 ft of line out.  But she wasn't done fighting by a long shot.  She ran right and left in front of me three or four times trying to turn for the deeper water.  I knew I couldn't just haul her onto the bank at this point, so I just tried to keep the line tight without horsing her.  Then she turns away from me and gives a big head shake and....nothing.  Broke the line just above the knot.  I was so mad and shaking so bad I just paced up and down the bank muttering to myself for the next five minutes.  

What could/should I have done?  Maybe my drag was set too tight?  In this kind of situation and given the line I was using, should this fish have taken drag?

Gimme some advice, please!!!

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

float tube, jon boat, canoe, ....get one!!  that's my advice

Get off the bank to fish that deeper structure and you'll have a better shot at hooking and keeping, bigger fish.

[=Matt 5.0=]

I'm suprised that the Yo Zuri line snapped. I was out with LBH one morning, and I got hung up on a submerged tree. I ended up pulling part of the tree out of the water and the line/knot never failed....strange.

[Taliesin]

With the information presented, I am inclined to say the drag was too tight. With that line (11.9# test right?) I would have the drag set at 3-4# of pressure. When the reel finally feels 3-4# of pressure, the line out there is getting a lot more than that.

The other possibility is that a previous fish or hang-up put a nick in the line.

Always re-tie after every fish and hang-up.

EDIT: With Matt 5.0's input, the other possibility became the most likely prospect.

[FatBoy]

float tube, jon boat, canoe, ....get one!!  that's my advice

Get off the bank to fish that deeper structure and you'll have a better shot at hooking and keeping, bigger fish.

Yeah, I've got the little bass hunter.  But sometimes when I've only got an hour or two to fish, beating the bank is the only way to go.  

The other possibility is that a previous fish or hang-up put a nick in the line.

Always re-tie after every fish and hang-up.

That could have been the problem.  I'm pretty sure I tied a good knot.  But I was fishing around a lot of these weeds and lilies.  

[roadwarrior]

Set your drag with a scale or put 2 1/2 lbs of weight in a plastic grocery bag. Tie the bag to the end of your line. GENTLY lift the bag with your rod and set your drag at the point where it begins to release. (This is a little light, about 21% of line strength, but it will work just fine).

Once you are hooked-up, maintain your rod position between 10:00 and 12:00 so that the rod fights the fish. Reel when you can, maitaining CONSTANT pressure. IPC for a Stradic 2500 is 33", you should be able to keep up with a fish running straight at you, reel faster!

When you have the fish in shallow water, walk backwards and pull the fish on to the bank, but DO NOT lift the fish with your rod.

[David P]

FatBoy, I have the same problems as you when fishing from shore or docks. Just yesterday I hooked a 4-5lb bass from a dock. The railing was above my waist, so right there I had a problem.. Not to mention, my new stradic I wasn't used to the drag, and had it way too tight, none the less, fish snapped the 8lb Pline CX right when I got it to the dock.

I think it's one of the biggest disadvantages of not fishing from a boat.

Last saturday, I caught 2 4lbers and several more 2-3lb bass, didn't lose ONE, and my partner lost only ONE which was 6-7lbs, but the line broke at his knot!

Boats make getting a fish in your hands 100 times easier.

[roadwarrior]

Same advice:

Set your drag at no more 25% of the breaking strength of your line, as long as it is within the specifications of your rod. (This does NOT apply to high test braid).

[Taliesin]

Same advice:

Set your drag at no more 25% of the breaking strength of your line, as long as it is within the specifications of your rod. (This does NOT apply to high test braid).

Good point about the braid. With braid I usually set my drag at about 50% of the breaking strength of similar diameter mono.

IE: 40# test braid is the diameter of 10# test mono, so I will set my drag at about 5#. This may seem really low, but it prevents damage to reels, rods, and lures.

This is usually about 33% of the breaking strength of the biggest line the reel reccomends.

IE: That 40# test braid will go on a reel designed for 10 to 16# test mono. 5/16 = 31.25%

[Valascus]

I fish from the bank a lot. I use 8Lb Gamma Copolymer line. The line has a breaking strength of between 12-14 lbs (I think...). I have my drag set to almost precisely 33% of 12lb breaking strength, so about 4lbs. The place I fish the most has very very steep banks. To make matters worse, the whole bank I fish has about a foot and a half of weeds from the bank in the water as well as a lot of trees and stumps. Since the bank is so steep and the weeds are so thick, I cannot walk backwards and get the fish to the bank, so my only chance is to wear the fish out a bit and keep it out of the weeds and away from stumps. The way I have always fought fish here is as follows:

1) I make darn sure I get a quick, strong hookset on the fish. This makes me worry less about the fish coming unbuttoned due to the hookset.

2) I keep tension on the line at all times and keep my rod at anywhere between the 10 to 2 'o' clock position depending on the direction the fish is trying to go. I allow the fish to peel a little drag to get it to a little deeper and more open water away from the weedy and stumpy bank. This allows me to fight the fish without having to worry about losing it to the weeds or stumps. If the fish goes straight for the weeds or stumps, I will try to guide it to a more open spot in the weeds by either walking further up or down the bank to a more open position. Once I get the fish to the more open area I'll let the fish have peel a bit of drag and fight it in the more open water.

3) Once the fish is tired enough to take a short break from fighting and thrashing about, I use this window to get the fish to the bank as quickly as possible, before it gets it's second wind. If the fish decides the fight is back on midway through trying to get the fish in, I'll let it have it's line and repat the fighting process until it gets tired again.

4) Here is the crucial part! Once I get the fish to the bank, I will run my hand a little bit up the pole until I can reach the line itself. Instead of hoisting the fish out of the water with the pole, I grab the line itself and support as much of it as possible. KEEP THE LINE FROM SWINGING A LOT IF POSSIBLE. Most of the time when I lose a fish, it is because the line snaps while swinging back and forth. Once I have the line, I gently lift the fish up to lip it.

Most of the time, this works. Two weeks ago I got a fiesty 3 lber on (that is a good quality fish for Busch Wildlife). I fought him just like that and was able to land him successfuly. However, once I got him out of the water and over dry land, the fish jerked pretty hard and broke the line about a foot above the knot. But the method still got him in before he broke the line. I also caught two catfish that were in the 3 to 4 lb range that day that were both landed that way without the line breaking. So, I must be doing something right.

[Cajun1977]

sounds like drag and line issues  sometimes you get em sometimes you dont  ,just cause your in a boat  it wont help if your drag and line are not working properly

[RoLo]

Losing a fish is one thing, but line-breakage is quite another thing.

I would reiterate what Roadwarrior has written.

After that, there is really no way a fish can break the line,

unless it was frayed or nicked (typically "before" the battle).

A good habit is to periodically run your fingers over the last few feet of line.

Frays and nicks are usually easy to feel (time to cut and retie).

Roger

[FatBoy]

Thanks for all the tips everybody.  I am definitely going to use RW's method to set my drag.  And I'll be paying more attention to nicks.  It was an expensive lesson (emotionally at least).  But hopefully it's a lesson I only have to learn once.

[islandbass]

Great advice given so far, but sometimes we get impatient. From what you described, she still had a lot of spunk. I would have played her longer.  If the drag were not set too tightly, another possibility is when she was in the shallow water, still full of energy, she could have gotten your line beaten up, abraided at some point in time during the fight.

I am shorebound myself and I have fished from docks and caught bass in the 3-5 lb range on my medium light rig and even my ul rig. Every time, it was patience and letting the rod and line do the work for me (as much as I didn't want to be, fearing the loss of the fish) has been my key to landing them.

Sorry you lost her.  

[George Welcome]

4-pound fish - 6-pound line: around the weeds and snap.

[T-rig]

4-pound fish - 6-pound line: around the weeds and snap.

Exactly! Braid is the answer!

[dodgeguy]

use 10 pound at least.6 pound is for open water fishing.

[Guest avid]

4-pound fish - 6-pound line: around the weeds and snap.

Exactly.  And even if the line doesn't break a big bass can wrap any line around a thick weed stem and get the slack he needs to shake the hook.

I have lost several VERY large bass this way.

George, for typical weedy, shallow Florida conditions.  Assuming stout takle and strong line,  when a big one (8 lbs or better) is hooked, how do you GENERALLY advise they should be brought in.

thanks

avid

[Gorgebassman]

I have lost many a fish due to the drag on my spinning reels so I started back reeling instead of trusting the drag. I would say my catch rate has gone way up since than matter of fact I cant remember the last time I lost a fish (knock on wood). You might give it a try.

[mattm]

RW,

    If I understand you correctly I need to set my drag at 3.75lbs since I fish mostly 15lb P-line CXX?

Thanks,

Matt

[roadwarrior]

Matt,

That is correct: 15 X .25 = 3.75. That is about the maximum "safe" setting for your LINE.

HOWEVER, you must also consider the strength of your rod. The power rating, taper and

bend are major considerations. The weight at the end of your line must not cause the rod to

bend past it's maximum capacity or it will break! I suggest no more than 75% of that maximum so that you leave some margin for an exceptionally strong hook-set, fish surge or hang-up.

I think you will find that 3 lbs is about the maximum drag you will want even for a Heavy Power rod.

Let's say your rod is rated for line strength of 17 lbs.

17 lbs X .75 = 12.75 lbs (75% of maximum rod strength)

12.75  X .25 =   3.1875  (recommended maximum drag setting)

[mattm]

[Matt,

That is correct:  15 X .25 = 3.75. That is about the maximum "safe" setting for your LINE.  

HOWEVER, you must also consider the strength of your rod. The power rating, taper and

bend are major considerations. The weight at the end of your line must not cause the rod to  

bend past it's maximum capacity or it will break! I suggest no more than 75% of that maximum so that you leave some margin for an exceptionally strong hook-set, fish surge or hang-up.

I think you will find that 3 lbs is about the maximum drag you will want even for a Heavy Power rod.

Let's say your rod is rated for line strength of 17 lbs.

17 lbs X .75 = 12.75 lbs (75% of maximum rod strength)

12.75  X .25 =   3.1875  (recommended maximum drag setting)

/quote]

Wow....that is some good information right there. I just got confused b/c you told Fat Boy to set it at 2.5 even though 25% of 6 is 1.5. I often wondered if I was setting my drag right.  I've never lost a fish to line breakage unless soemthing crazy happened(buried deep in the weeds, me grabbing the line etc.).  However it is great to have something to check it by.  I've always thought i might have it too tight though b/c i've never had a bass rip drag.  I could of just been lucky this whole time.  Stuff like this is why I love this site.

[FatBoy]

Well, actually mattm, RW recommended the 2.5 lb on the drag because the yozuri hybrid ultrasoft #6 test to about 11 lb.

[wismallie]

First I'd suggest some heavier line then I would forget the advice about the drag. Tighten the drag down and learn how to back reel.

[roadwarrior]

I think lighter lines (thinner diameter) produces more bites. There are certainly situations where heavy line or braid may be the best choice, but regardless of the line you choose, setting a proper drag will reduce break-offs.

Backreeling is an option that works very well for a number of fishermen when fighting big fish. I don't think setting a proper drag and choosing to backreel are mutually exclusive. I is very simple to adjust the drag to a correct setting which comes in handy in a lot of situations. This has no impact on fighting the fish and incorporating the backreel technique in the fight.