NEED LEGAL INFO!

[spotaholic]

A little more information....In the state of GA. where I live a private pond is not under state regulations or limits. The have a definition of what a private pond that reads something like this: totally enclosed by a land owner and not feed by a public creek or river. Now isn't that interesting. I have several private ponds and one is owned by a DNR agent and he has always told me to take as many smaller bass as I can out because his pond is over crowded and there is not that much bait. So I take them out and he gives them away to a needy family.  Am I unethical because I do that? Catch and realese is great but there is nothing wrong with keeping fish when you obey the law, permission from the owner and fish is consumed. IMO

The moral of the story is know your state regulations. They differ from state to state and maybe even county to county.

[Guest avid]

dude,

You are SO BUSTED.

I hate to get on my high horse, but how the he&l can you publish an online fishing magazine and not know the laws of your state?

If I were you, I would go to the judge, and with my most sincere tone,

1.  apologize

2.  admit there is no excuse for not knowing the bag limits.

3.  tell him you recongnize that as someone who has an internet outdoor magazine that you have a special obligation to know, and promote compliance with all fish and game laws.

4.  Read and understand EVERY SECTION of the law that pertains to ANYTHING you write about on your website.

5.  Inform the judge that you have done so, and demonstrate your remorse and re-education by publishing the section pertaining to private lakes on your website. with a complete public apology and ADMISSION that ignorance is in-excusable.

6.  Promise to never make such an error again, and let the judge know that you will use your website to promote legal and ethical sporting activities.

good luck with the judge dude,

but you screwed up big time.  Take it like a man.

[Catt]

dude,

You are SO BUSTED.

I hate to get on my high horse, but how the he&l can you publish an online fishing magazine and not know the laws of your state?

If I were you, I would go to the judge, and with my most sincere tone,

1. apologize

2. admit there is no excuse for not knowing the bag limits.

3. tell him you recongnize that as someone who has an internet outdoor magazine that you have a special obligation to know, and promote compliance with all fish and game laws.

4. Read and understand EVERY SECTION of the law that pertains to ANYTHING you write about on your website.

5. Inform the judge that you have done so, and demonstrate your remorse and re-education by publishing the section pertaining to private lakes on your website. with a complete public apology and ADMISSION that ignorance is in-excusable.

6. Promise to never make such an error again, and let the judge know that you will use your website to promote legal and ethical sporting activities.

good luck with the judge dude,

but you screwed up big time. Take it like a man.

[Crankin Fun Times]

I wish they would fine you $1,000 for every fish that wasn't legal.

Poaching is a crime, it's the same thing as if your friends had went out and shot 100 deer.

I have had a lot of days where i go out and catch 30 fish, but every one of them goes back into the water, so that other people have the chance to go out and have a great fishing day. > > > > > > >

[Guest SkyChimp]

In Illinois, as with most states, water belongs to the state. It took very little research to find this. Hence, all state law would apply to the waters of Illinois whether on private or public land. The below is directly from Illinois Reparian Rights.

Doctrine of riparian rights:

     "Riparian rights are a form of real property, a part of land law. The rights are appurtenant to the land; that is, they are attached to it in the sense that a person who purchases or inherits riparian land automatically acquires the water right."... "Under this doctrine, the law gives equal rights to the use of water to owners of land which borders upon or touches a stream or watercourse. A riparian right to the use of water exists whether the use is made or not; hence, a riparian owner can initiate a use at any time and insist that his rights be accommodated with other uses or that a share of the water be allotted to him. The nature of the right is usufructuary - the riparian does not own the water, but owns only the right to use it on his riparian land and to have it flow to his land so that it may be used. Developed in the humid climates of England and the eastern US, riparian law seems to be based upon an unspoken premise that if rights to use are restricted to those persons that have access to the water through the ownership of the banks, and if those persons will restrict their demands on the water to reasonable uses, there will be enough for all.

I don't think this doctrine applies in this case.   This is a case of a privately owned pond, not a public lake, river or stream.   Riparian rights apply when a landowner owns land adjacent to a public body of water or waterway.  In this case, we are dealing with a privately owned pond surrounded by the landowner's property.  He owns the water.  If this were not the case, then the establishment of a pond on private property would cause the pond's ownership to revert to the state - essentially constituting a confiscation of property without compensation.  

I think the issue here is that a landowner does not own the wildlife on his property.   Even though the landowner owns the pond, he does not own the native gamefish contained therein, the bag limits to which are subject to state regulation.

[cart7t]

Here's where I see the problem.

There are creel limits which are daily limits set when you're on the water fishing and possession limits.  Possession limits are the total number of said fish you have in your possession, whether on the boat or in your freezer.

In this case, these guys have already surpassed the states possesion limit and the possesion limit doesn't differentiate between where you caught the fish.  Since there's no way of knowing exactly WHERE all those fish were caught, private lake or not, you must include them in the individual fishermans overall possession, which it appears, surpasses the total.

I won't get into the disgusting display of meat shots, especially those, but there are better tasting and easier fish to catch than a bass.

[bigdog]

To the people involved. Admit your guilt, take your medicine and learn from your mistake.

That being said. As far as the members here before we start throwing people under the bus...don't we all make mistakes. Let me explain... If the speed limit is 40 and we go over the speed limit it is a crime. Many of us including myself go well over the speed limit. I don't see people blasting people about that. Many clubs allow you to cull a dead fish is that ethical to let a fish back in the water that we know will dye or is already dead just because we have a bigger fish. When I joined this Website I thought we we about ,teaching and exposeing that great things about fishing. IMO we failed on this one. I think we would have served this situation alot better by explaining ethical fishing practices instead of saying that we are disgusted and offended. I am not saying I agree with taking fish over the limit and I don't, there is a price to pay but we as so called ethical fisherman need to live up to the standard and educate proper fishing ethics. I have a feeling we blew it on this one. I am sure I will gets some crap about this but that what makes this place so great. I can have a voice.

+1 :-[

[Kimbro]

I'm not going to get into my beliefs but they parallel most that have already been posted.  If your man has already been fined then he shouldn't be able to be fined again for the same thing, it's called double jeopardy in the legal system.  Now if they are looking at charging him with something else than he could be up a creek without a paddle.  

[Guest avid]

Unless you already admitted guilt, tell them to prove it was just those two guys fishing. Maybe those fish included the guy taking the pictures and another guy in the bathroom or something. Then you're only 1 over the limit.  

Very clever.  Maybe you misread the title of this website.  It is NOT the "ulitmate resource for poachers, liars, game law violators, and trespassers".    

[NJfishinGuy]

disgusting. really disgusting. no sympathy here!!!! jesus you people cant just buy some food.....

[WLDCRZYWMN]

:'( Thanks a lot guys. I'd take it like a man if I were one. The (very) old guy who owns the land had been the only one fishing it for years. He told these two guys they could take what ever they wanted because the one put a roof on his house a couple years ago. The lake is over populated. They only fished for a couple hours and said they threw a whole bunch of real small ones back. I don't want to sound arrogant or hateful BUT You know, seems to me that if I dug a lake on my property, paid for baby fish to put in it and a few years down the road wanted to catch a whole bunch to have, say, a family reunion, the state law shouldn't apply to my lake or my fish that I purchased. Just my opinion. I understand AND FOLLOW state laws pertaining to any other body of water. BUT I SWEAR TO GOD WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT PERSONALLY OWNED & STOCKED BODIES OF WATER WERE GOVERNED BY STATE LAW. I am so sorry for ticking everyone off. Definitely not my intention. I've spoken to many people here who didn't know they couldn't take as many fish as they wanted from their very own lakes. Years ago, in Groveland, a private township, there were no real limits set because we, as homeowners, paid dues to stock the lakes each year. Just a few years ago, we had to set limits because of outsiders making their way to our lakes. Yes we were ticked because WE paid for the fish for OUR use, not everyone else's. We would never dream of stealing - or poaching - fish, as someone stated. Can I please get an 'AMEN' from someone ANYONE who feels the same way about their own lake? I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. And I KNOW there can't possibly be only perfect, non-self-righteous people in this sportsmen's forum

[grimlin]

WLDCRZYWMN,I think you are honest,just learn from what happen and don't let it happen again.Hopefully the guys that fished the pond learned a lesson too.

It takes alot of guts to admit you didn't know and now you'll change that(hopefully).

Takes even more guts to come on this forum and admit this infront of some of the hardest core bass fishers here...lol

Time to move on and learn from this.People make mistakes. :-/

I know i learned something...it got me checking into private pond regulations and rules now.

[roadwarrior]

Mistakes were made and apparently very well documented (by you). I HIGHLY recommend that your friends contact an attorney to represent them. A case like this lends itself to becoming "an example" for others and maximum penalties are a very real possibility. Since by your own admission, all accused parties are "guilty as charged," your best course of action is to plead for mercy and enlist a lawyer to help make the best deal possible for them.

Your friends need to hire an attorney.

[Deb]

SAD, Very SAD! SQUIRRELS, no I think not. Squirrels are at least fun to watch! In the last 15 mo I've caught more than 500 bass myself. In the last 15 mo I've released every single one! You wanted "cheap" food for your party, now go spend thousands on an attorney! Maybe next time you'll serve cheese and crackers or nuts! We all have to eat, but not all of us feel as you do. Nothing wrong with differences of opinion. You asked for ours! No, this isn't a guy girl thing either. As one of the more vocal females on the site, the guys plainly tell it like it is, and it so happens this time, I agree!

As far as how we would feel if it were our property, that's not the circumstances. I think even if it were, we would have been managing it to where the scenerio would not be the same. Yes, fisheries and wildlife must be managed, but not like this. No, we're not sympathic to your situation, if you had been in an accident or going off to war, diagnosed with an illness, lost a loved one, or even just having a tough time, the responses would be much different. This is an AWESOME site with some of the greatest people I've never met but the support is definately here, IF it is deserved!

[WLDCRZYWMN]

"As far as how we would feel if it were our property, that's not the circumstances."

But that was my question for all of you.

I have appologized profusely and admitted fault. I wasn't asking for more attacks.

[Gatorbassman]

WLDCRZYWMN, Welcome to the site. As you have found out the hard way, many of us are very passionate about the largemouth bass.

That's a tough lesson to learn for your friend. Chalk it up as one of those lessons and move on. It will probably hit him in the wallet only because he didn't do any research about the limit before going out. Had he attempted to look into the limits and couldn't find the info then he might have a defense. I am sorry about his situation, but stuff like that happens to many of us and then we move on.

[Deb]

Ky law plainly states "Statewide size and creel limits apply to ALL Kentucky waters, public and private."  therefore, if i wanted to keep the fish, I would either abide by the laws or risk prosecution.  Just like speeding, shoplifting, arson, or any other law.  I as a resident of Ky have a few choices, live by the laws, break the laws, or move to somewhere where the laws more suit my beliefs.  

It doesn't matter if you think I say something because there's men around.  I speak my mind.  Men or not!  Couldn't care less if they or anyone else like it.  Just like your opinion is yours, mine is mine.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I've never needed a man to tell me what to think or say.  

I honestly didn't mean to offend you or do you bodily harm.  No more than you meant to offend members here or on the web.  I'm sure you have learned and thank goodness, given time and life, we all learn and go forward.  Perfect no, we weren't meant to be.  But I do believe you put the past behind you and go forward.  Hopefully learning every step of the way.  I may be late in replying to the original post and didn't mean to drag this on and on.  Honestly, I didn't check the original post date.  Didn't see that it mattered, it must still be on members minds or it wouldn't be up top being still talked about.  Hope you have a great day and things go better from now on.  Now for me, it's time to go fishing............

[NJfishinGuy]

i think you gotto realize that just because your didnt know the limit laws for this lake, we all think its disgusting to kill that many bass regardless of law. if it was 1 or 2 over and you didn't know maybe we wouldn't hate so much but its bothers everyone on here to see someone massacre like that.

bucket brigade!!!  uhg

[WLDCRZYWMN]

The 'black eye' thing was just a figure of speech. I just figured I stepped on your toes by posting in this forum. Don't seem to be many women in here. Felt like a bad vibe...like the ones I got when entering AOL chat rooms 15 years ago...girls can be nasty..here in Illinois a lot of women are just that - NASTY! I only have a few girlfriends. Most talk S*** behind your back or try to go after another girl's man, or think you're after theirs etc. I was raised a tomboy...in the mud...on private lakes....where I caught as many fish, frogs & turtles that I wanted. I started working for this magazine 10 years ago from home. When I'm not working, I do enjoy camping and fishing, but never had the need for that many fish. We had just moved, money was tight. Would never purposely want to break the law or steal fish by fishing public waters. had permission to take as many as we wanted. Shoulda had a potluck instead. fine. Maybe you coulda brought the grits! Grits are hard to come by here....but they sure are good!  I didn't meant to get off on the wrong foot. Just needed advice for them...not me. You know, Deb, you are a well-spoken woman. We just started a WOW section (Women's Outdoor World) in our magazine. Perhaps you'd like to send in some articles or photos? We think more women should get involved & be introduced to the great outdoors. Feel free to send them to beckyaso @ insightbb.com  Anyone else can too. ASO is a free magazine so your submissions must be of your own free will and without compensation I'm afraid. I barely scrape by myself....but for a divorced mama of 2 starting all over, it pays the bills! Thanks for all the input everyone!

[Deb]

No problems here, you didn't step on my toes.  I love this site.  I've been fishing local ladies tourneys for 12+yrs now.  This site and the wonderful folks here are teaching me a lot.  There is some very useful information, some goofiness, some sadness, a lot of laughs and some great friendships to be had.  All one has to do is take advantage of it as it's available.

I've had my share of troubles also.  That was my point.  I've been divorced, been a single mom, watched my child die, given up a nursing career I loved (due to surgery) but yet somehow, thru all of my troubles and screwups, I am able to live.  To be happy!  Fishing helps keep me sane.  I certainly wasn't trying to be judgemental.  Outspoken, yep I'm definately that!  But I'm a whole lot more.  I'm passionate about my beliefs.  Too passionate sometimes.  Family, friends, fishing, faith.  I'm usually more than happy to put my .02 worth in.  Gets me in trouble sometimes.

Thanks for the invite to write.  Sounds very interesting!  Haven't a clue what I'd write about.  Money doesn't mean a lot to me, as long as the bills get paid and there's money for gas in the boat.  I'm fairly content (dont ask the ex  )  As many of the guys here will attest, I have thousands of pictures!  Let me know what you're interested in....

As for the grits........you can keep 'em.  I'd rather have rocks !!!But let me know, I'll be glad to send you some (grits not rocks)  Personally, I'll keep oatmeal! :                  deb

[kybassangler]

Need to get the fishing pamphlet the state puts out some waters have different sizes and limits. Its confusing but its the law.