Sight fishing yes or no

[Fish Chris]

out here on the left coast, it's FAR more common to have lakes with too many small fish, and not very many big ones. Apparently "over-recruitment" is much more of a problem than not enough recruitment. From this standpoint, it should be obvious that sight fishing is not impacting recruitment "as much as it needs to be" to create a higher quality fishery. Oh sure, their are lots of other factors involved, with another one of the big ones being "Selective harvest of smaller fish" and the strict C/R of the big ones.

Interestingly, we have lakes which get sight fished so heavily it's crazy..... yet still have really big numbers (probably too many in some situations) and we have a few lakes that because of low visibility, get little sight fishing pressure whatsoever..... and those lakes don't seem to hold any higher numbers of fish, than the clear water lakes ???

And another odd thing..... the lake near me with the "lowest" recruitement (San Pablo Dam Res) is also typically so murky, it gets practically no sight fishing pressure either. Again, I sure love the places with fewer, but larger bass :-)

Peace,

Fish

PS, Hey LBH, last year when that big one spewed all of those eggs, while you were stressing about it, you might have actually helped to keep the recruitment a tiny bit lower, and the quality a tiny bit better ! Most importantly, because you released her, you might catch her again this year when she is even bigger ! :-)

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Well, If she chooses the same real estate, I'll know where to watch her or the next 3+ lbr that takes her place!

[Zel]

Pennsylvania is considered a trout state. Almost all resources and monies are put into trout. But the state is very protective of the bass, most probably because they don't wish to spend money on the fish, but do realize the huge income bass fishing brings into the state. Protecting the bass during the spawn ensures a continuous replenishment without state expenses. In the past you couldn't even fish for bass during the closed season (spawn), and if the warden caught you fishing with a bass type bait during the closed season, they could fine you. After years and years of study on the matter of bass and the spawning process, the state Fish and Boat commission changed the rule several years ago. You now can fish for bass during the closed season (spawn), but you have to immediately release the fish. You can't even measure the fish, and that is why there are no bass tournaments allowed during the closed season, (even paper tournaments where the weight of the fish is derived from length are not allowed). Therefore, since experts have determined that releasing bass immediately back into the water during the spawn has negligible affect on the spawning process, I fish for bass during the spawn, and I enjoy sight fishing during the spawn. The spawn only lasts about 2 3 weeks where I live.

[senile1]

I think that is a good point, Zel.  Immediate release is a very good idea.  Of course, if you stick a fish that you know is close to your personal best, you're going to want to weigh it and take a picture.  I still think if you keep it in water until you weigh it and shoot the picture, and then release the fish, you minimize any possible problems.  Not to bash tournaments, but I do think that taking the fish off the bed and keeping them in your livewell all day will result in losing the eggs at that nest.  Is that necessarily a bad thing?  It depends on the individual fishery.  As I stated in an earlier post, I think you have to consider other possible detrimental situations at each particular lake, before you choose to sight fish.  

[Siebert Outdoors]

How come sight fishing is automatically considered bed fishing?  I sight fish every once in awhile in the summer and fall.  If the fish are cruising you guys are missing out on some fun.  Nothing is cooler when a fish darts out of the tall weeds grabs your lure then swims back into the weeds.  you witness the whole thing.  Or pitching docks and a fish slowly swims out toward your senko and you watch his mouth open and gills flare.  Then shiz'am  your bait is gone.  This one is one of my favorites to do.

Clear water you can see deep fish do this too.  You may witness this at 10-15 ft or more. Depends on the lake.

[Zel]

What do we think? What do we know?

I will reply on what I know and I know there were about 2000 less eggs in my lake this year because I hooked that fish.

Well LBH, not to pick on you (well maybe just a little) but here's something I think I know if you're talking about that 223 (or so) acre lake you recently posted about, it can only handle on average about 4,000 to 4,500 average size bass (average = 2 lbs). So if those 2,000 eggs hatched and survived, along with millions of others (2,000 females x 2,000 eggs each = 4,000,000), the lunkers that would come out of that lake would be about 4 inches long. I wouldn't let those 2,000 lost eggs bother me too much if I were you.

[senile1]

How come sight fishing is automatically considered bed fishing?  I sight fish every once in awhile in the summer and fall.  If the fish are cruising you guys are missing out on some fun.  Nothing is cooler when a fish darts out of the tall weeds grabs your lure then swims back into the weeds.  you witness the whole thing.  Or pitching docks and a fish slowly swims out toward your senko and you watch his mouth open and gills flare.  Then shiz'am  your bait is gone.  This one is one of my favorites to do.

Clear water you can see deep fish do this too.  You may witness this at 10-15 ft or more. Depends on the lake.

While I agree with you, GMAN, the original post referred to sight fishing specifically during the spawn and during tournaments.

Fish-fighting-illini stated:

I've got a question about the impact of tournament sight fishing during spawning on the overall Bass population.

[TravisLovett]

Personally, I dont think bed fishing really hurts the bass population in a tournament or not.  Though it does do a little amount of damage to the amount of eggs that are available to hatch its kind of like hitting a steel door with a hammer.  You may put a mark on the door, or a scatch, but that door is still gonna work and stay up there.  Catch and realese I think are more important and have A LOT more to do with the bass population.  Not only then are you not allowing that bass to breed this year, your not allowing it to ever breed.  Thats kind of like taking the hinges off the steel door mentioned earlier, without its hinges being there first for it to attach, its just gonna fall.

[Guest avid]

I have alot of respect for Florida fish and wildlife.  If They say it's ok, then it's ok.

[Catt]

That's cool Bud

Did you meet Roger? Who was you guide?

[justfishin]

Maryland has closed bedding areas for awhile now on the Lower Potomac in certain areas such as Nanjamoy and on the Upper Chesapeake Bay around certain areas around Havre Degrace. I would like to see all our lakes have a least one or two areas closed to fishing during the spawn. I don't fish for bedding bass but, I used to. I have caught some hogs doing this in the past but, its like shooting a buck swimming across the river to me ( which is illegal by the way in MD). Its too easy. I just don't do it. If you want to fish for spawner's I won't bash you for it. Thats your choice. I just don't do it myself anymore.

[Bud]

                  Did you meet Roger? Who was you guide?                    

Don't mean to steal the thread.  If the Mod want to deleate it.    Yes I met Roger the first day we was their.  I don't remember the guide name.  He really love to hunt and fish.  Great guy.  

senile1  That should have read 11 POUNDS 8 OZ

[Chris]

I'll give you a few examples.

Lake Jessup in Florida years ago the state changed the normal direction that the St. Johns River flowed through the lake. The lake filled up with muck because the river current wasn't there to clean it out. This made the lake shallow with very few areas for good spawning because of the soft bottom. The lake that was known by locals years ago as a good bass lake but now it became over run by rough fish, gators, and panfish.

There is a lake by my house that gets fished a lot with tournaments 3 days out of the week most of the year. This lake because it is river fed the water is mostly stained so you can't see bedfish. This lake has tons of shad and a hard bottom with great spawning areas. From the impact of the amount of tournaments and people keeping fish day after day you can see a real decline in fish populations. The state just restocked this lake this winter.

There is another lake I know of that at one time was a great bass lake with mostly clear water with great cover and good populations of baitfish. The state stocked this lake with an outrageous amount of musky. Now if you catch one keeper bass your doing good.

There is a park that I know of that is clear water and fished a lot. This lake has everything right as far as cover, populations, spawning areas, hard bottom, and food source. This lake gets hammered by site fishermen for years and you can still catch good numbers of fish in many different year classes.

In many of the lakes I have fished in the south because of the extended growing season, good cover, good food source, tannic to clear water, good depth, good spawning areas, good numbers of different year classes, I don't find much of an impact on fishing for spawning fish and in many cases fishermen are properly managing what they keep.

I know that the easy way out is to point fingers at the tournament fishermen and say you the tournament fishermen is the reason for the decline of good populations of fish in your lake. I know of many people that feel that they should keep their catch every day they fish. When they fish everyday the numbers add up and can clean out a lake quick. Most of these people are not tournament fishermen. Speaking for myself I have only caught and kept a handful of bass total in my entire life. One is on my wall the others where hooked deep and was not going to make it so I kept them. I catch a ton of fish and I fish more days than most average people now could you imagine how much of an impact I could have on a lake if I kept fish? To me there isn't much of a difference between keeping a fish when they are spawning and keeping a fish during the rest of the year. The outcome is the same the fish will never spawn again. Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with people keeping fish but when you have limits that are large and people that are good fishermen that fish everyday and they keep them what do you expect. I also don't have a problem with guys keeping a trophy but when they are on their 10th trophy on the wall and all of them are the same size what's the point when you can get a fiberglass mount. The number one concern with a tournament guy is the welfare of the fish and welfare of the fishery at least it should be. There is always a bad apple in a group that don't go the extra mile to take care of their catch so that the fish has the best chance to live after the release. Bass fishing has been good to me so I am one of the guys that goes the extra mile. When you take a trophy out of a lake or off a bed you still have the many years that the bass has spawned already to consider. You still have offspring of that bass that still carry the genes to grow big still in that lake. In many cases you just made room for the next big dog to take the wheel. It is like hunting deer most guys wait for a buck to mature before they take it. If we didn't have a hunting season then the amount of big bucks would be slim because of high populations and food competition. With bass it is kinda the same deal. Fishing for spawning fish is fun and when you are careful with the fish and turn it loose the bass will continue to spawn in most cases. If you are worried about a tournament fishermen taking the fish for a ride and that they never make it back to the bed bass don't all spawn at the same time. Bass also spawn in places that are hard to find so it would be hard to catch up all the spawners.

[senile1]

                  Did you meet Roger? Who was you guide?                    

Don't mean to steal the thread.  If the Mod want to deleate it.    Yes I met Roger the first day we was their.  I don't remember the guide name.  He really love to hunt and fish.  Great guy.  

senile1  That should have read 11 POUNDS 8 OZ

 I knew what you meant, Bud.  I just had to give you a hard time.  

[wvubassfan]

All I know is that I never fish for bedding smallies in the streams. I have never really fished for them on the lakes either durring this time. I do fish for them like this for the greenies, but I release them immediately. I don't know if it has any effects it just does not seem right or sporting.

[Bass Smacker]

 I love it. Can't wait till spring. Some people frown on it buo well like Chris said no harm comes of it.

I do see LBH piont. I'd feel bad to :'(. But not that bad. 8-)

   

 

[Lane]

Each lake or body of water is different. Up north the spawning season is MUCH shorter than

down south. A good scientific study is ONLY relevant to the body of water that the study is

conducted on. Within a state or geographical area, lakes are in different stages of aging.

I agree with other posters, recreational fishermen usually harvest the larger fish for trophy

skin mounts.

Lakes or bodies of water that recieve a lot of pressure benefit the most from reduced creel limits

or size, and or slots. Pressure does not necessarily mean angler pressure. Pressure from other

fish such as sand bass or striped bass must be factored in as well. There is little scientific evidence

down south to suggest that sight fishing has a definate impact on the fishery. I have reviewed

studies conducted on northern bodies of water, and in some cases it has improved the quality

of the fishery to have a, "closed spawning season". There is no one size fits all answer to the question.

[fish-fighting-illini]

Never thought this post would go this far. Made for great reading.

Do remember though it was about bed fishing during spawning and high volume ( possibly tny's ) NON catch and release. IE the fish being taken possibly very far away from its bed.

Just catch and release at the bed is a whole different matter.

Why couldn't tny's have a radio system where someone catches a spawner and has to radio in to have a - right then and their weigh in?

Did I just hi-jack my own thread?

[Rattlinrogue]

I like to sight fish,but I let the fish go immediately so I don't think much if any harm occurs.As for tourney fishing,someone said it depends on the body of water,and I agree.I don't really know if it hurts or not,but IMO BASS fished impoundments are big enough to withstand any harm that might occur(and FLW too).On a small 300 acre lake like I fish often,I'm not so sure.

[Tpayneful]

"In Pursuit Of Giant Bass" by Bill Murphy he frowns upon sight fishing for bedding fish.  Doug Hannon sayes basically the same thing in "Big Bass Magic".

I was surprised that B.A.S.S. had 3 major tournaments during the spawn and they were all about sight fishing for spawning fish.  In the early 90's B.A.S.S. aplauded states that closed lakes or spawning areas to prevent bed fishing.

I like to bed fish but do feel a little guilty about it.  :'(

[Mattlures]

I have another way to look at it. EVEN THE ANTI BED GUYS WILL AGREE!!!!!

Ok Here is one way that I look at it.  On any given lake were I live there are always a meat hunter or two out fishing for bass. For the most part they only catch the smaler ones so they are actualy helping. Durring the spawn however they at least have a chance at big fish and it would suck if one of them caught a big female and killed her. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO by me going around and catching as many of the big fish as I can, I AM PROTECTING THEM. Seriously once one of those big mammas has been caught the odds of getting her again become verry low. She will most likely be very spooky and wait until night to finish. I have seen this with my own eyes after I have released a big bed fish. I have seen other boats stay on the same spot for hours and give up because I edjucated that fish.

I also generaly dont release them right away because of this. I will put them in the well and take them to a photo spot and take some pics and if I am in the mood I might even bring them into the dock and report the fish. I am verry careful with them and handle them as little as I can then I will drive them back to where I caught them and release them. I have even checked them for a couple days. They are soo spooky I just catch them leaving when I get within sight.

[roadwarrior]

Excellent point Mattlures.

In the highly pressured waters of California, and especially on those lakes with World Class potential, you have provided a service to the fishing community. You have described a scenario that makes perfect sense to me. Now that I understand what you guys are really doing, I'm glad you are on those spawning beds in those particular situations.

[Fish Chris]

Hey RW, in the first part of your response, I was thinking you really did agree with Matt's post.... But in the second half, I sense a bit of sarcasm ?

Yes Matt, I remember a couple of occasions when I was on one of my favorite trophy lakes at the same time as a couple of the "meat hunters" you mentioned. I remember finding a big fish locked on, then feeling additional pressure to C/R that fish, to greatly decrease the chances of the meat hunter catching and killing her, right behind me.

Anyway, I'm sure their are at least a few big bass swimming around out there right now, that had I not C/R'd her from a bed, would have been caught and killed later ! No doubt about it.... once they have been stuck, they get WAY, WAY tougher to catch again ! There has been a lot of speculation as to how good a fishes memory is, but at the very least, being caught and released just once from a bed, makes a big momma bass way tougher to catch (way more cautious) for the rest of that Spring spawning season !

Peace,

Fish

[Alpster]

New Jersey observes a catch and release only season during the spawn. As long as you practice imediate catch & release, there is no scientific evidence that catching a spawning bass will adversly affect the general bass population. JMHO

Ronnie

[Fish Chris]

just to reiterate, I think we all should really look deeper into what exactly it means to "adversely affect" the bass fishery. As I have pointed out, reducing the levels of bass recruitement can be a GOOD thing.... especially out here in Cali. And I DON'T mean to say that "once in a while" it's a good thing..... I mean "more often than not" !

We have FAR more places, out here in Cali, with "too many" small bass..... than we do, places with not enough bass to begin with (of course for us, that has a lot to do with the introduction of Spotted bass, but that's a whole other can of worms).... and "reverse Selective Harvest" too..... But I digress....

Fish