Bigger Bass???

[Okeechobee_Cracker]

Ive heard that bigger bass are more predictable than smaller ones..............whys that?

[roadwarrior]

I don't really know what you mean.

If you are predicting that big bass will be harder to catch than small bass, I would agree that they are more predictable!

[Okeechobee_Cracker]

I forget where I heard it.........but I rememebr some saying that.....im gonna go look through my magazines   and try and see who it was that said that

[Okeechobee_Cracker]

I looked around the internet and came across it............Doug Hannon actually was the one that said it ........it is on his sight ........heres the copy and paste...........

Doug, what do you attribute to your success in catching so many record bass? Is it style and technique, the lures used, scouting the area, weather and water conditions? What would you say was the greatest single contributor to your success?

My success with big fish is definitely multi-faceted and a result of putting many things together. Like so many others, I picked up on these things one-at-time and gradually added to my methodology. The first thing I tried to do was learn everything I could about big fish, and it took quite a while before the knowledge became complete enough to effectively employ into stategies. A little knowledge can be limiting, if you allow it to be. I found that big fish follow simpler rules and were actually more predictable than the small fish, which were still learning how to be effective predators. I tried to find everything a bass needs for the whole season, from abundant food, to spawning areas, to deep winter quarters in the smallest possible area. I called these complete units "smart terretories". I simplified my lure selection and even used a lot of live bait. All in all, I tried to be a good observer and sensitive to everything going on around me. The most important thing has to be that you need to reverse your role. We see the names of lures like Hawg Hunter, Terminator, Bass Assassin, etc. This is the wrong idea, because you need to realize that, while your objective is as a hunter, you are doing so fooling the bass into thinking you are the prey. You must learn to take the submissive, not the aggressive role, and play the victim, not the bully role. This will win you big dividends when it comes to big bass.

I read the whole thing but he never really gave us examples....like for instants he said bigger fish follow simpler rules....but never expain what those rule where...maby I should take this one up with Doug.....

[Okeechobee_Cracker]

I gave Doug a PM

[OcBassman63]

 Now theres some food for thought. Thanx for the insite. Let us know what Doug says.

[Lane]

Bigger bass are OLDER bass, and much like people become set in their ways. They will also

fiercely defend their territory from intruders! Doug will probably agree, but that is an excellent

question for the Bass Professor!

[Catt]

Big bass are controlled by certain environmental factors

1. Reproduce effectively

2. Feed efficiently (maximize food intake and minimize energy output)

3. Prosper during extreme seasonal changes

4. Achieve good growth rates by domination of the warmer areas of the lake during the colder seasons.

This is a quote from Doug's book Big Bass Magic; I believe these to be rules that big bass must follow to survive.

[bassmasta7]

I think he explains it a little more in his book. He says that they are more predictable because of when they feed and I think it was also their location. Actually, I think it might have been on one of his videos on his website where he goes into more detail on the subject. If you watch those two minute videos, I think one of them explains this. But i definitely remember seeing Doug Hannon somewhere saying that big bass are more predictable then smaller ones. (good question to ask him)

[Catt]

If you apply these 4 environmental factors to your fishing you will increase your odds of catching big bass.

All bass must reproduce period

Big bass live in the same world as their smaller bothers, but they (big bass) are more dominant and aggressive. They also eat the most and are first to respond to feeding opportunities.

Keep in mind the prime structure and locations may not be the most obvious

[Okeechobee_Cracker]

Keep in mind the prime structure and locations may not be the most obvious

Why is that?

[Randall]

Big bass are not the most aggressive or the ones who eat the most. They are the most efficient. As they become older they become even more efficient at what they do. This is how they reach trophy size. They feed under optimum conditions and don't waste energy chasing around bait or swimming long distances to find or catch food. They develop a home range that fills all their needs and live in it without waste of energy. They live on the best structure in the area and the best areas that fill all of their needs. To me this is the same as Doug's "smart territories".  Once I read this in Doug's answer above I realized that he just didn't claim to be a big bass expert but knew what he was talking about. They even move around in a predictable manner taking the best routes from place to place. They even feed on the type of forage that gives them the biggest meal for the least amount of effort. Most of these rules have applied to almost every fish over eight pounds I have ever caught and I have caught hundreds of fish over eight pounds. They apply to every fish over ten I have caught. All these things do not apply to every one pounder or even six pounder I have caught. This is why big bass are more predictable.  

[Catt]

How do big bass keep the prime structures or spawning locations if they are not the most aggressive?  

How do big bass attain the weight if they don't out eat the smaller bass?

[Mattlures]

Randall is absoluty corect. Being more predictable does not = easier to catch. If you were to fish virgin waters then the biggest bass would be th easiest fish to catch because in theory they are easyer to predict. In the real world the older a bass becomes the more times it has been caught and released. They learn to aviod danger. They adapt. In Hannon's book he says by nature bass are shallow water fish. This may be true but put some pressure on a lake and the fish, especialy the older ones will become deep water fish who rarley come in shallow. This is what happens out here in Cali. the water is very clear and the fish especialy the bigger ones become very spooky when they are in shallow. This is why night time can be so efective for big bass. Angler mystakes are muted by the darkness. Big fish have adapted. they know the best places and times to feed and will often reside in the best structure. This however does not make them easier to catch. Small fish are stupid and reckless. They mey be less predictable because they have not learned how to be eficient but they they make many mystakes and dont have as much fear of anglers as the big ones do.

[Mattlures]

Randall said eficient not agresive. There is a huge diference.

[Catt]

Matt that's contradictory to your statements about Weakley's 25.1 bass in the other tread where you and some one else state that same bass was caught 4 or 5 times.

Sounds to this dumb coonass like it didn't learn or adapt to well

[Randall]

How do big bass keep the prime structures or spawning locations if they are not the most aggressive?

How do big bass attain the weight if they don't out eat the smaller bass?

Its real hard for a 12 inch bass to push a 10 lb bass off any spot the 10lber decides it wants.  ;DThe 10lber can eat the 12 incher so I am sure it isn't going to get much competition. But I catch 10 pounders and barely keepers off the same spots so they use the same spots and areas. Just because a 10lber is there don't mean all the other fish have to leave the area but it might be smart for them to if they will fit in the mouth of a big fish. Big bass get big by eating smart. They don't expend the energy a smaller less experienced bass does to get the same amount of food. I am not saying that all big bass take in less food than a smaller bass. But they don't try to eat everything that comes by either.

[Randall]

Matt that's contradictory to your statements about Weakley's 25.1 bass in the other tread where you and some one else state that same bass was caught 4 or 5 times.

Sounds to this dumb coonass like it didn't learn or adapt to well

Doesn't sound contradictory to me. Think about how many times smaller bass were caught during this same time frame and how many were taken out of the lake while this one stayed living right off the end of a dock for years. Where it was tells me alot about that fish.

[Mattlures]

Catt, not contradictory at all. It actualy proves my point. That lake gets beat to death on a daily basis. Its one of are few lakes thats open every day. In the last(I think 7) years that bass has never been caught by sombody fishing for it. THE ONLY TIME that bass gets caught is when its spawning. It simply can not fight its natural urges to reproduce. That lake is small, around 80 acers and many of the best trophy hunters fish that lake constantly throwing every swimbait and regular bait and live bait that is legal and probably some illegal. Guys sneak in that lake at night and fish when its closed but yet that fish ONLY gets caught while spawning. Prety good example if you ask me  

[Catt]

It's real hard for a 12 inch bass to push a 10 lb bass off any spot the 10lber decides it wants

The 10lber can eat the 12 incher so I am sure it isn't going to get much competition

By definition that's aggression

A 10 pound bass must eat a certain amount to sustain that weight other wise it will start losing weight. I've seen 10 pound bass swim some distance chasing a Spinner Bait and Rat-L-Trap; ever over taking and passing smaller bass in the process.

[Catt]

THE ONLY TIME that bass gets caught is when its spawning

There it is! Your basic environmental factors used to your advantage to catch big bass.

Big bass has to follow these simple environmental rules, it can't change them, thus making it predictable.

[Mattlures]

Catt... Yup they are predictable theyr are just so much smarter and harder to fool than the little ones.

Also on your other question, Agresive behavior doest always mean agresive feeding. A big bass will diminate what ever peice of realestate it wants to simply by its presance. Small bass instictivly know to give the big bass its space.  You have seen big bass chase. Yes they will at times but this is not the norm. there are always exceptions. Big bass are eficient. they rarley waist energy chasing prey. They can accelerate very fast and overtake prey if they want to but they usualy only choose to if its worth the efort. Out here the biggest bass will make a short burst and nail a trout or even follow behind the school of trout but I have never seen a gaint crashing throught a school of 2in shad. Sure I have seen 6lbers doing it but not 15lbers. Its just not worth the efort. This is why swimbaits are soo efective on monster bass. Fish them slow and they become and easy big meal that worth a big basses time. Jigs, live crayfish, same thing. If you ever read "In pursuite of giant bass" by Bill Murphy one of his favorite techniques was to stitch big worms. It could take him 10 minutes to work his worm back to the boat.

[Randall]

It's real hard for a 12 inch bass to push a 10 lb bass off any spot the 10lber decides it wants

The 10lber can eat the 12 incher so I am sure it isn't going to get much competition

By definition that's aggression

A 10 pound bass must eat a certain amount to sustain that weight other wise it will start losing weight. I've seen 10 pound bass swim some distance chasing a Spinner Bait and Rat-L-Trap; ever over taking and passing smaller bass in the process.

I would personally call it aggression if the ten pounder were to start after the little fish forcing it from the area not the little fish trying to push the ten pounder off the spot. But if thats what you call it fine with me. As to what a big fish needs to sustain growth it would probably surprise you to know that out of one meal on average 15% goes to movement of the fish, 14% goes to digestion, 20% goes to waste, and 7% goes to metabolic process and the rest goes to growth. I got this info from a Ralph Manns article somewhere. More of a meal goes to growth than anything else. So all a fish has to do is eat to grow. Also, a big portion of fish have empty stomachs. Fish just don't have to eat as often or as much as most people think to grow. It can take as long as one week for a fish in 50 degree water to digest one meal. In fifty degree water they can eat one time and not eat for a week.

[Catt]

I think misunderstandings occur during discussions when some one mentions rules; there is no stone tablet on which one might find a set of rule. There are generalizations like big bass feed efficiently (maximize food intake and minimize energy output). This does not mean it is abnormal for a big bass to chase and strike a Rat-L-Trap ripped through a hydrilla flat.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

If I ever catch one, I'll let y'all know! lol

In our lake, we catch what I am assuming are the larger (but maybe not the echelon) class and they are predictable to the point of where they are certain times of the year. There's ALOT of food in our lake, catching them is another story. We don't employ "MONSTERS ONLY" techniques so I guess my opinion is only worth so much here.

I always assume ,however, that many times, the 5 or 6 pounder I am swinging around as I dance on the deck, may very well have just been pushed off her spot by an 8  that I might have met 4 or 5 yrs ago when she was a healthy 4 but may never see again. Who knows.