Who's better

[KYbass1276]

Mattlures you mentioned that mike long dominates tournaments in southern CAL but how well does he do throughout the rest of the country.  I don't know the guy and to be honest I have only heard of him once other than this but thats my fault I don't really keep track of the trophy hunting crowd so I'm not trying to say he isn't good but it isn't hard to dominate tourneys if your only fishing your homewaters.  Both guys you mentioned are fishing western waters and they are without a doubt good but they should be if thats the only areas there fishing.  I think overall KVD would be better not at trophy hunting obviously but at tournaments yes Definatly    

[5bass]

In my opinion,the better angler would be one who excels at trophy hunting and tournament fishing at the same time. Both take excellent skill to succeed. This is a really difficult subject to present a winning argument. Nobody is totally wrong,nobody is totally right.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

In my opinion,the better angler would be one who excels at trophy hunting and tournament fishing at the same time. Both take excellent skill to succeed. This is a really difficult subject to present a winning argument. Nobody is totally wrong,nobody is totally right.

Well said...I dont know that I would take a side on this one. Both are good at what they do, some are good at both.

WE ALL LIKE TO FISH, WE ARE ALL THE BEST.

Wayne

[Mattlures]

bassnut1276, Mike does not fish the national tournys. Not becuase he isnt good enough but because he doesnt want to. Fishing the big tours is not all that great. It seems to me like an almost miserable life. Constant travel and presures and obligations. Mike has young kids a wife and makes a good living. Yes he fishes southern Cal tournies but thses are not "club" T's these are W.O.N wich is the biggest tour out west and there are usualy at least 50 and usualy more boats per T. Aaron Martins, Dean Rojos, and I believ Kline and Yelas all fished the W.O.N. its not quite the FLW or BASS but its probably right under them. If you havent heard of him google him. The last #s I remember were, his biggest was caught in 06 at 21.5lbs #2 was 20+lbs and he had about 12 between 18-20lbs He catches so many big fish its unreal. Nobody even comes close.

He has all the major sponsors and has been on the cover of tons of Maggazines.

He does not get the same attention as the big T guy's because the media is controlled by the big tours. look at the TV coverage. ESPN, Bassmaster magazine FLW. They focuss on thier sport. Thats were the money is.

Next time you run into Rojas or Martins or Ish ask them about Mike L

Again I dont want anybody to think that I am putting down T guys. I am not I am simply defending the Hunters.

[Randall]

They are both the best at what they do. I do both but admit being better trophy hunter (if thats what you want to call it) than I am a tounament fishermen. I think I caught 15 to 20 fish (didnt really keep count) last year over ten pounds but I only won one tournament out of around twenty I fished. I placed high in most of the tournaments I fished but didn't win many. I also bombed in a couple trying to win with one or two huge fish I had found.  ;D Why? Because I like to fish for the bigger fish and dont like just going out and getting a limit unless its a limit of big fish when I fish for fun. My big fish mentality holds me back. If I think theres a way to catch a huge sack of big fish I go for it and it often hurts me in tounaments but sometimes I may win big though. I don't really mind since I just fish the tournaments for fun. I did fish with a guy a couple of years ago and he ran the trolling motor and I fished from the back of his boat. We tied a club record for the most five fish limits brought in and only once didnt bring in a limit in a season. I can fish for five fish limits but just don't like to as much. We were good fishing together and won the year end Classic. Although we won money I didnt have as much fun doing it so the next year I fished by myself and went back to fishing for big fish. From doing both I can tell you that the two are very different although they are also very much alike in alot of ways but that is another topic. There is just no way to decide who is better. IMHO everybody that thinks you have to throw a big bait all the time and go days without catching a fish to catch big fish knows very little about catching alot of big "Trophy" bass. For example, most of my big fish this year were caught on trickworms although I did get a couple on swimbaits or used swimbaits to find the fish. It doesn't surprise me as it did most people that KVDs big fish was caught on a jighead and worm. It also doesn't surprise me that KVD has only caught two fish over ten pounds. He fishes way to fast most of the time to catch many big fish over ten pounds. Catching big fish is all about knowing where and how they live and getting them to bite just like tournament fishing. The thing that is different is that big fish are different. They are harder to find and even tougher to get to bite. You have to fish for big fish and tournament fish in different ways and that makes it imposible to compare two fishermen doing two different things. I can't believe I got sucked into another one of these who is better posts. LOL.

[RoLo]

Nice post Randall, right-on!

Roger

[Mattlures]

Swimbaits are the #1 tool out here but Randal is absolutly correct. Mike L caught a 15lber on a 5in Senko and a 17lber on a jig(not spwaning and in deep water) this year. But he did get his 21.5 on a swimbait Yeah I wasnt going to get sucked into this one either but I just cant help sometimes!

[bassmasta7]

I was curious what a professional angler would say to this question so I went on Ish's forum and asked the question "Ish, I was wondering what your thoughts were on Mike Long and other anglers that only go after GIANT bass. How do you think anglers like Mike Long compare to regular tournament anglers like yourself? Do you think these hawg hunters are better than tournament anglers?" He will probably respond in a day or two.

[Fish Chris]

not that I believe you were speaking to me in particular..... But I do feel compelled to tell you, that although I would call myself a trophy bass hunter, nowadays, you must remember that I fished for "numbers" of smaller fish for many years, on every different class of lures, as well as live bait, in many different waters, from deep clear Cali lakes, to flooded timber lakes in Louisiana and Arkansas. The fact is, I find numbers of smaller fish to be much easier, and after a certain point, somewhat boring, compared to giant bass. I had basically gotten to a point where I could go out and catch a bunch of small bass, "and still feel skunked".

Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that if I did fish tournies, I would be a national champion or something crazy like that, but I do believe that if I had put the same amount of time and effort into tournies as I have chasing big bass, I would be at least as successful at tournies, as I have been at trophy hunting....... However successful that is.

In any case, I'm the guy who will fish for anything that bites my hook ! 29 Crappie today for about 50 lbs. Sturgeon, Stripers, Catfish, Halibut, Lepard Sharks, Bat Rays, Bluegill, etc, etc, etc. A one trick pony I am most definately NOT !

Peace,

Fish

[Mattlures]

bassmasta7 Ish responded exactly how I expected. He is a class act.

[KenDammit28]

Matt, the only issue I think anyone can take with what you're saying is that you're also only looking at one of the best of the best trophy hunters.  I would venture to say that for every Mike Long, there are at least a couple hundred more who are just average and probably DON'T catch double digit fish all that much or even single digit fish.   Further, you're taking his tournament record on his home waters, and trying to say its justified against guys who are fishing different waters almost every day and catching what many would still consider big fish, even if they aren't in the double digits.  

I'm neither a trophy hunter or a tournament angler and have no desire to be either because to me, it becomes more of a job than a hobby.  I think that trying to compare the two is apples and oranges because they are vastly different worlds.  A trophy hunter can hit a couple hogs and put some weight up on a tourney board and being as adept as they are, I'm sure there are plenty of tournament fishermen who can go out and fish for a big bite, too.  

[chitwnbass]

Just a thought I had.... Do you think If a top tourney pro like KVD, ISH, Or Clunn could switch over and become a top "Hawg Hunter"?  These are guys who week after week fish diffrent water, diffrent conditions, and diffrent obstacles.  These guys are masters of adjust their game and finding patterns to catch fish.  I belive the switch would not be hard for top tourney minds to switch and become top "Hawg Hunters".  Inversley could a top "Hawg Hunter" make the switch if they decided to become a top tourney angler? Its alot tougher I belive.  While I know very little about fishing for trophy fish being from IL and its true ther is very little coverage of this aspect of fishing I see it being a bit more specialized. Your confined to climates where big fish grow and your stalking a specific target.  Just some thoughts and wanted to hear what both sides think. I also agree that being top in any discipline is very tough and if one day I could come close to possesing the skills and knowlege of either a top tourny or top trophy angler would be a true acomplishment.

[George Welcome]

I got sucked in too and my dad is bigger than your dad.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

I got sucked in too and my dad is bigger than your dad.

But my boat is bigger than yours, so which of us is the best?

So simple.  Whoever gets the most enjoyment out of what that person is doing.

I can take a newbie fishing for the first time and spend the day teaching. To that person, with his day of catching fish, I bet he thinks I'm the best.

How many guides think back to their BEST day at work and can mostly remember the joy of their customer.

Buy back on topic, more or bigger, which is best?  Whichever one YOU are trying to accomplish.

[Matt Fly]

There is no way the two can be compared fairly.     They each have different goals.    

The two types of angling mentioned  requires a different approach and mindset.

Its like  comparing US sprinters to Kenyan distance runners, each trains differently because the race is different.

Obviously, Americans dominate sprints and Kenyans dominate distance running,      How would you say who is better?     Comparing records only shows that each country dominates their choice.

Does it really matter?    

Matt.

[Rattlinrogue]

Comparing a tournament fisherman to a trophy fisherman is like comparing a PGA pro to a Long driving champion.About the only thing they have in common is a golf ball.About the only thing the two types of bassers is the bass.Two different sports if you ask me.Both can be great in their own right.

[cart7t]

Wow I still cant believe how uninformed some of you still are Cart is just plain wrong and obviously has no clue what goes on out here in trophy hunting land. Months without a bite? Who? A newbie maybe, but even then he will still get bit if he puts in his time. Craig is almost right except he said Mike Long only does so so? Have you seen his resume? He completely dominates the tournament scene in southern Cal. He consistently wins large tournaments by several pounds over the next place. He has also won many tournaments fishing by himself or his very young son in the larger TEAM tournaments. Mike Long is in my opinion the greatest bass fisherman alive.

Bill Siementel also consistently wins tournaments. He is also a well-known trophy hunter.

If a trophy hunter was to go out and catch one fish a month and only get a couple bites well then he is no where near as good as a top tournament guy but this is not the case with the best trophy hunters. Mike probably averages about 30 bass over 10lbs in a year. With 10 being the minimum. He has caught almost 60 bass over 15lbs! Also while he is out hunting for these giants he catches tons that are small to him, 5-9lbs.

When most people make this comparison they only have their own experience to go by and most fish tournaments. Many have tried to trophy hunt but give up because it is to hard for them to reteach them selves. Also people only consider the top end tournament guys. You are talking about the best there is. There are millions of tournament guys out there.

KVD his largest bass is only 11lbs. He has fished everywhere and is arguably the best tournament guy there is. Besides Mike Long he is probably the second best angler alive but 11lbs? You would think after all his years and overwhelming amount of time on the water he would have caught a few teens by now. This just goes to show you that the tournament guys are the best at catching small fish. There is nothing wrong with that either. If I were on tour I would play the odds and fish for a limit. Wait no I wouldn't! I would get killed. My only chance would be to go for broke.

Cart7 thinks it would be easier for a great tournament guy to adjust to trophy hunting then visa versa.

This shows his knowledge of the subject. Not much! It is extremely difficult for a tournament guy to unlearn everything he knows and change the way he fishes. I don't know of any tournament guys who consistently catch fish over 10lbs but I know a few T hunters that can completely dominate tournaments. Mike Long's partner John Kerr WON HIS VERY FIRST PROFESSIONAL TOURNAMENT!!! The us open on lake mead fishing against all the big name pros!

Now absolutely by no means am I putting down any tournament fisherman especially the top guys. I have great respect for them and several of them are my friends but I do take a little offence when somebody discredits the top trophy hunters. 99 times out a 100 this is just ignorance.

BTW I am not even close to being as good as them!

I'm not surprised you got your undies in a bunch over what I said but it wasn't meant to degrade anyone. IMO,  tourney anglers are operating on a completely different level than anyone else.  They not only have to catch a limit of larger than average keeper bass but also, when need be, change tactics and target big fish exclusively to catch a larger fish to heavy up the bag.  All this within a time frame of only 7-8 hours in a day.  

If KVD, or Nixon or any of the others chose to fly out to California and fish those lakes for large bass I'm sure they'd have no problem adjusting.  They've already proven they're abilities to figure out a large body of water and to access the fisheries and determine what size catch they'll need to win.  They're also capable of changing gears, on a strange body of water and successfully (usually) targeting larger bass on that same lake.  It sounds like they have all the skill sets to become a successful big bass fishermen already.  The same can't be said for the big bass fisherman.

[Siebert Outdoors]

Hmm, I didnt think the question would genrate this much attention.  I read all the posts and didnt even realize some of the intensity that goes into either fishing type.  The question wasnt ment to point anyone out or degrade any style of fishing.  Just a question that helps me understand the drastic end of the spectrum.  There are very good points above presenting the plee for one fisherman or the other.  Honestly there isnt a right answer I dont believe, except the few about who enjoys fishing the most.

[bassmasta7]

Here is what Ish had to say. "There not better we are not better were just different. They get off on catching Giants. We get off on the competition of tournaments. Tournament anglers a good at fishing tournaments and World record hunters are good at what they do. No one is better than the other.

Ish "

I definitely agree with what he says. That was kind of my opinion on it. Matt you are definitely right Ish is a class act. He is the only angler i know that has a forum and responds to all the questions. On top of that, he reponded to it in only 20 minutes!

[Mattlures]

Cart7 you only argument is "I think so" or "In my opinion" and considering the source that's a pretty weak argument!  Your knowledge of trophy hunters is miniscule.

T hunters have won major tournaments. Like I said before John Kerr won the US open the first time he ever fished a pro event. Lake mead is in a different state and is defiantly NOT his home waters.

Mike dominates the local tournaments. These are large events. Bill Seimental also wins a lot of large tournaments. Byron who is a swimbaiter has won many tournaments and fishes on the big tour. He is not in the top ten but give a season without basscenter and we will see how good he does.

I give you examples; you give me "I think so"

Well now I will give you my opinion and back it up. I believe a top tournament guy would have an incredibly hard time flying to Cali and catching our big fish. Here is why. First they have honed their skills. They are the best at what they do they have spent most of their life fishing for small bass. These are the type of anglers who can adjust but it is very difficult for them to learn how to fish all over again.

Fishing for big bass is like fishing for a different species. If you keep that in mind it is easier to learn. However these guys have thousands of hours on the water and they know how to catch fish. Tournament sized fish.  It is very hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. I think it would be easier to teach a younger or less experienced fisherman to catch monsters than it would be to teach a top pro. At some point all that knowledge they possess would start to creep in and they would doubt the "new" techniques and revert back.

Now to back this up. KVD has caught 2 bass over 10 lbs. only 2 now I don't care were he lives he has fished in probably every state and many tournaments in Texas and Florida. You honestly think he has NEVER tried to target big fish? I don't think so. If he came to Cali he may or may not be able to catch monsters. I think he would struggle and go back to catching keepers. He would probably stick a few but he would NEVER even come close to the top trophy hunters.

Now you think that a Top tournament angler could adjust easier just because they can adapt to different water. First off every T hunter that I know started out by catching small fish. At some point they got good at it. In the rest of the country the natural progression is towards tournaments. This is where you can compete and show how good you are. Well out here its different. You might get more fame, glory, and respect by being able to catch big fish consistently than by winning tournaments. A lot of the trophy hunters do both. They focus on big fish during the best seasons and when they are just fun fishing and fish the tournaments in-between.

Kendammit you are absoluty correct. Mike Long is a freak. He is the best trophy hunter alive and he is also very dominant at the tournament level he fishes. There are no others as good as him. There are a few trophy hunters that are real good but Mike is at a whole other level above them. I am just trying to get as good as that little group. The average guy who targets big bass is usually just a good angler that has caught a lot of smaller fish and want to catch bigger fish. They are by no means great. I fall into this category.

Yes Mike fishes his home waters. Why would he go anywhere else? The biggest bass in the world live here and he knows it. I am sure he could go to Texas and Florida and use his knowledge of big bass behavior and be very successful.

Now just to clarify I have said this many times. I believe Mike Long is the greatest bass fisherman ever.

But I don't think trophy hunters are better than tournament guys. I actually think the top say 10-20 tournament guys are the best bass fishermen in the world with the exception of Mike. But after those top guys the top T hunters are up there.

[cart7t]

Matt, a question was asked. I gave my opinion. I backed it up with my 32 years of experience in the bass fishing world. In case you noticed I never said any angler was inferior but IMO, the best way to see who's the best would be to put a few from each group on a strange lake and let them have it out.  I'm betting it wouldn't be close.

Tourney guys have this going for them

They have to be up on the latest techniques, in some cases they develop techniques themselves.

They are forced to adapt to different waters week after week.  From a gin clear highland lake one week to a lowland lake the next and a river system the week after that.  Those that are successful can teach clinics on any of them.

Not only are they forced to fish those bodies of water but they're often forced to seek other species of bass and be knowledgable in fishing for smallmouths and spots.

Sorry you took my opinion to heart like you did.  I have nothing but respect for guys who spend most of their time trophy hunting.  I also have no doubt that there are some trophy fishermen that have done well fishing tournaments but that still doesnt' change my mind or opinion.  You're heated response reminds me of the guys that try and compare Formula 1 drivers to Nascar and vice versa, as to who's the best race drivers out there.  I like to think there are a number from both sides that would do well if they crossed over but in my opinion, Formula one drivers are the best in the world and most would do well if they went to Nascar, I'm not sure how well most Nascar drivers would do in Formula One.  I'm sure there's some Nascar fans  I just pizzed off now.   ;D

[KenDammit28]

cart, I'd agree with you about the drivers if F1 guys actually drove the car beyond stepping on a peddle and turning the wheel, lol.

What they do is more or less riding instead of driving, but this is a fishing forum!

[Bankbeater]

If I have been skunked a few times then I will go after numbers. If I happen to catch a hawg then so be it. If I have been going after numbers for a while and feel comfortable with the technique and amount I am catching, then I will start looking for bigger bass.

[Triton_Mike]

To me honestly I don't even think you can compare the 2 as they both require a different set of skills to be successful.  I have the upmost resepct for the Trophy guys like Matt, Fish Chris and Supermat.  THose 3 guys alone could probably teach Larry Nixon, KVD and whoever else a BUNCH of tricks as it pertains to trophy fishing  I also think it can go vice versa as well.   Each angler requires a seperate set of tools and skills to be successful.  Me personally I would think it would be EASIER for a trophy hunter to become a better tournament angler than a tournament angler being a better trophy hunter.  Mainly because the Trophy hunter is fishing for a MUCH smarter animal which in turn requries a tremendous amount of patience.  I think that if you had TROPHY fish in good numbers as California does throughout the US your opinion toward trophy hunters would be significantly different.  Most of the HARD core trophy guys are from California.  While tournament anglers are from all over.  Not enough of a pool to really give a fair assessment between the 2.  

Having said that I think the Western guys are significantly more versatile in tactics than any other regional angler.  Most of your new tactics and such come from out west.  Ie dropshot, swimbaits, Split shot, flippin and yes EVEN jig worm fishing.  BTW I'm from Georgia and I don'th ave a dog in this hunt.  Just my observations.

Mike

www.tritonmike.com

[senile1]

Yawn.    This is interesting . . . . up to a point.  

Is the answer to this question going to affect how much any of us enjoy fishing?  BTW, what is the price of eggs in China?