Fishing Guides worth it?

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

I think it's a mistake to try lumping every guide into a single policy. Sometimes it's best for a guide to just guide and not fish, or maybe mostly fish to teach as long as it's an educational event for the customer. It's kind of hard figuring out a good pattern for a customer when not fishing the best baits and presentations possible yourself. Once onto a pattern or two a good guide needs to try letting the customer work it if the customer can handle it. I made sure it was clearly possible to catch a bass so they couldn't complain except against their own inexperience. I played it by ear never to let a client get discouraged, not seeing a bass hit. Very few ever hinted they didn't appreciate me doing some fishing to put him on fish, but when you have someone not familiar or effective with boating there's not a lot of time for fishing with him. I can't even begin to estimate how much unsnaggging I did. One customer could lose $300 worth of crankbaits if you let him! Not a good day.

Hosting a guy out for some scouting for an upcoming tournament comes to mind. No way would I interfere. They know what they are doing and just need a boat and someone that knows where to find structure or cover according to their preferences. "Show me a hydrilla flat next to a 30 foot channel with some stumps." We might go there and he might bounce bottom once and want another similar spot, or head for another scenario. "Show me some stained or green water." You'd be surprised how many guys like that bok a half or full day, just to look around, get a feel for a lake until he can get his boat there. Some have first booked a flight in a helicopter, then want to visit places they liked from the air. Actual fishing takes second place.

But most of the time folks are clueless and need some help, more help, or basically do it for them.

Livebait trips are no big deal. If striper guiding is part of the offering it's best to have a bass boat for bassing and another for stripers, with the biggest shad tank a guide can fit in a suitably sized boat, including a scale & foam trap and good quality circulation pump. He has to figure on possible larger fishing parties or pass those off to a bigger guide service. Ouch, unless you have the big boys passing single anglers off to you and you stay busy. Cast net for wild shad or go buy shad if wanting big ones. For 4-6" shad that could involve a 150 mile round trip while the wife is serving a nice meal back home. Bass guiding tank is much smaller, but quality is important, a lot cheaper on clientele. Mostly netted shad are fine for black bass, cutting costs. Then add it all up and figure it into the fee. Striper anglers pay more because there's a lot more expense up front and before each trip. I never heard of a guide selling bait to a customer. He's going to be sure there are plenty of shad or whatever, use it or not, but never run out. That's expensive, but it's the customer paying for the availabilty. If not buying it, there's a large investment in time and fuel cast-netting.

Jim

[cart7t]

"If I catch em great, if not, so be it." That's easy to say but end of day quickly forgotten as you tell all how the guide you were with sucked.

The reality is that each lake is different. Some have docks, points, and other such structure. Others are vast open bodies of water with no indication of what's going on. Sonar is a wonderful invention but contrary to what you think it isn't as likely to get you that big fish as a guide poking and probing will.

George, it's obvious that you and I will not be fishing together but we are both gentleman and won't let this disagreement collapse into a flame war (nor would Glenn permit it)  but you seem to be under the impression that professional guides are automatically better fisherman than their clients.   As I said before I need a guide to show me where the likely spots are, and recommend presentations.  Your not "proving" anything to me by catching fish I could have just as easily caught.

As far as gettig skunked and saying your guide sucks, well most sportsman who use guides realize that that will happen sometimes.  But how many paying clients will praise their guide, when the guide catches the 8 lber, and continues to fish from the front of the boat while the guy who pays the bill is literally pulling up the rear?

I have no more to say on this.

People will do what they think is best, my position is clear enough.

The "mood" of the fish, on any given day on a lake can be different than yesterday or even a couple hours ago.  Presentation and location are the key to any anglers success whether with a guide or not.  If his fishing for an hour or so to identify those nuances that may have changed since he was last on the water improves my catch ratio, which in turn my overall enjoyment of the trip than I'd say he did his job.

As for a guide. I'd hire one to learn a lake, mostly seasonal patterns.  I'm not asking him to mark up my map but I'd definitely give him my map to give me good general areas to fish after my trip is over.

As for the poster involved.  The ideas of a mentoring partner or joining a bass club are the way to go.  I learned more from fishing with various partners in bass clubs than I ever could in a half a day or day on the lake with a guide.

[George Welcome]

"Now I would absolutely have asked if a guide planned to fish. If the potential guide said "you sit where I tell you, you fish where I say, and you use the baits that I recommend"

The point of that was really quite simple:

An individual posted that he felt that it was his right to "invite" the guide to fish, or prohibit the guide from fishing.

My point was that when you call me and hire my services, you are only hiring my services. You aren't hiring my boat, nor are you paying for the right to come on board and tell me how to run my business. I obviously don't tell people in some harsh manner what to do or how to do it. However, I also don't run my business successfully by having customers dictate to me how to run it.

Depending on where we are fishing on the lake and the circumstances my rod will either be in my hand or on the deck. Its use or non-use is my decision and is made based on a lot of experience. The point is that decision is mine not the clients. I fish four lakes: two "catch and release", and two allow a daily limit. On my boat any bass caught are "catch and release" only regardless of the lake or fish and game legality. Again, this is a decision of mine, not the clients. On my boat your GPS is allowed including a log book: again this is a decision of mine, not the clients. On my boat alcholic beverages are not allowed: a decision of mine, not the clients.

Basically, I am saying: when you hire a guide you are still a guest on his boat - a paying guest yes, but still a guest. You will probably have a much better day if you go with the guides suggestions than if you go with your own.

I do mark up maps by the way. I even do that at the ramp for non-customers. My decision again.

[roadwarrior]

"On my boat alcoholic beverages are not allowed." Wassup with that?

Just kidding, George. I think that might be my rule too if I were guiding.

I'm not guiding.

I think this thread has opened up a lot of thinking as to what guides actually "do", how they approach their business, what you should be looking for and expect from a guide, and some questions YOU need to address. I fish, for the most part, with guides that me and/or my friends have been fishing with for literally decades. If you can find the right guide, he will make every day memorable, regardless of the fish you catch.

Good luck!

BTW,

If you fish the White River, Mississippi River, Tennessee River or the associated reserviors in this region, I will be glad to refer you to my guides. (Alcoholic beverages and tobacco products allowed.)

[George Welcome]

You have to see some of the booze that people have arrived with. I had a gentleman start setting up a bar for some martinis once.

A six-pak per 2 persons is one thing - hard liquor is another.

I smoke so smoking is allowed but don't burn down the boat.

No walking on the seats - I am on my third set: you have to see to believe what some will do.

[roadwarrior]

Well, that's a horse of a different color.

We have rules, too: "When you go brown, you go down."

(Brown means ALL hard liquor, not just whiskey)

Like John Daley says,"Beer don't count."

On topic: Some days don't work. We pay our guides for full days, but when we have had enough, we're out of there! That's another good reason to keep some whiskey at the house.

[gatrboy53]

i consider myself to be a decent angler,have always been able to hold my on CATCHING bass.i would say my biggest weakness is finding bass on new water.the reason i would hire a guide say on STICK MARSH,which is my dream trip,only 3 1/2 hrs. away.1)w/o knowing where to go or how to get there safely would be worth the expert knowledge.2)i would pay for that persons expert knowledge of where the best place to fish at that time.good guides spend countless hrs. on a body of water finding,following,predicting where the bass are at that time.so i dont have to spend my time looking and being disappointed when i cant find em.3)i want to expand my knowledge of the fishery,when, where and how to catch them ,so the next time i come,i'll know how to get where i want to go,where i might find fish and how to fish for them...i also want to pick that guides knowledge of bass fishing to help me become a better bass angler.instruct me on hows the best way for me to catch a bass.i dont want no guide fishin for me or w/ me.i want him to guide me to the best place they know where i can catch a bass.last...i want him to appreciate me for choosing him as my guide.im the one plunking down my hard earned money,paying for a service.he dont have smile ,or be funny ,just guide me to the bast spot he knows where to catch fish and increase my knowledge of that particular fishery.  

[K_Mac]

This is a very interesting discussion, esp. getting the guides point of view. I have only been on a couple of guided trips and both of them were great experiences that I will never forget, and were well worth the money.

One of those trips was an off-shore charter, where my wife and I fished with 6 other folks. The captain positioned the boat and the 2 mates did the work of keeping everyone fishing. An interesting thing happened on this trip that I think is relevent to this conversation. We began the day fishing for Amberjack. Each fisherman was allowed to keep one-I think this is the legal limit. We fished 4 at a time and everyone caught 1 except my wife. After she had missed a couple the captain was grumbling about her missing fish. He wanted to be able to tell all his buddies and prospective customers that we had caught our limit. I understood his point, but reminded him that she was doing her best and as far as I was concerned we had payed for the experience and not to increase his marketability. Ann ended up catching more fish than the rest of us and the crew could not have been better. It was a great trip, the captain turned out to be a nice guy, and I learned that numbers and size are sometimes more important to the guide than the customer.

I believe if you have the cash a guide can be a great way of learning-esp. a specific boby of water. I think knowing exactly what to expect is a key part of enjoying the trip.