What do you guys think about this idea?

[RoLo]

The fact that you need to pose the question, speaks volumes to me.

If you "know" that you've got what it takes, you're wasting precious time asking questions.

If I wanted to be a fishing guide, I would not be interested in anyone's opinion or anyone's money

and NO ONE could stand in my way. If someone lacks an aggressive passion or responsible mindset,

I cannot in good conscience advise him or her to "Go For It".

I can't be that reckless with someone else's prosperity and happiness, just to look like a good guy.

Roger

[J@k3 01s3n]

While I love bass fishing... I can't imagine ever being a guide. It takes a special kind of guy to turn his favorite hobby into his job.

I have a Father/Son duo that I charter with for salmon every year. Betwwen dissatisfied customers when the bite isnt on, rising gas costs, weather, and all of the uncontrollable factors, it sounds like it was often a headache. Not to mention the guy told me he was on site at 4 am just to get ready to take off by 6 when we got there. Talk about a lot of long days spent out on the water watching other people fish. Maybe you can enjoy it, not for me though.

P.S. If you can get me on a fish like the ones you've been posting, I'll make the drive down from MI. We dont see too many of them up here.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Are there other guides on Choke yet?

I've always wondered, and perhaps GW could shed some light, if other , established guides feel about the new kid on the block.  We are talking about someone who could potentialyy be taking money out of their pocket.

I entertained the thought of guiding when I retire but I just can't see someone like me,a yankee talking, small guy, showing up down at stick marsh with a boat and setting up business where other guides already work without going to the boat one morning to see that my anchor has been used to perforate my hull in a few places.

I know that's how it is up here.

[George Welcome]

Everyone has to start somewhere. However, arriving at the lake yesterday and starting today is one of those things that will set off bad feelings. No matter who you are, when you first start you will be getting business. If you know what you are doing and are operating legitimately then no problem. When you pop up out of the blue with no knowledge and even less fishing skill, you will get business and in the process hurt everyone. Not with the business that you took, but with the bad mouthing that is going to follow. We live in a small world with the internet being the tool that it is. It won't take long for the wrong people for this industry to fail, but with them going they leave a bad taste in all the people that they have fooled. These people in turn will turn tell all their friends to watch out for that lake. We hear it all the time:

It's no different in this industry than it is in many other. Back yard mechanics, the computer industry, etc. all have their scabs, whores, and such. No matter the industry, they hurt everyone, not just themself as they fail.

There are a bunch of guides on Choke.

I've said it before and I will say it again: if you are hiring a guide do some research. I have seen all kinds of tactics used to promote oneself as having history and experience to do this job, when in fact the history was made up and the experience non-existent. Seems like Florida and Texas get slam-dunked with just such individuals.

[Randall]

Being someone who recently started guiding (two years ago) I have to say that there is some good advice in the previous posts. I would definately charge more. If the other guides are charging more and you are charging way less then as your potential clients shop around your prices will get you more negative feedback from other guides as well as make you look to be a less qualified person to take them out. Cheap prices could cause you to get less trips insted of more. You dont have to charge as much as they do but I would be close to their prices. I charge $150 a day for my guide service but I have far less money going out than you will. My boat is an all electric boat which all put together cost me less than $1000 dollars. It costs about $1 a day to operate and my tow vehicle is a small 1991 Dodge Colt which burns very little gas and is cheap to operate. And I probably dont charge enough. You will have a larger boat and tow vehicle and expenses to operate those add up quick. Next question is what kind of experience do you have in dealing with people and operating a business. Before being a guide I was a manager at other peoples large businesses. Without this experience I wouldnt have made it as a guide and would probably been back working a job real quick. At the time I started my guide service there were four other people who started guiding on the same lakes I did. They were all decent fishermen. They were all gone in a couple of months. And like George said they gave people a bad taste for guides on those lakes because they couldnt keep people catching fish and didnt have good people skills. All they did was tick a lot of people off. Also, there is a big difference between you catching fish and getting other people to be able to catch fish. You will have all different kinds of people of different skill levels get into your boat. All of them will not be able to cast well, feel strikes from fish, work a topwater properly, etc. You will have people get into your boat who think they know everything about fishing and will not listen to you about the lures, location and techniques you say will work. If you dont have the skills to deal with these people then you will have a very long day on the water. These ( the one who think they know everything) are also usually the ones who will bad mouth you to everyone they meet after the trip and try to ruin your reputation. Without the skills to help these people catch fish they may catch nothing for the day even though you could have caught 50. I suggest getting help and advice from someone who is already a guide there. I had a few guys, including Triton Mike from this website, who gave me a bunch of help and advice as I started my guide service. The advice they gave me was a big help in getting started and staying in business.

[Matt Fly]

Nice post Randall,

I'm sure Josh is looking for all the input he can get.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

I've said it before and I will say it again: if you are hiring a guide do some research. I have seen all kinds of tactics used to promote oneself as having history and experience to do this job.

Oh don't I know it...... :-[

Thanks for your input on this one GW, great info.  I'm interested because I've also been on the fence for years about what to do when I retire.  I'm sure it will be somthing inthe industry but I don't know if I could cut it as a guide.  At least as a guide I would want to hire.  Just being honest with myself.  I've always assumed the things you preach about the business but hearing it from your mouth makes it real.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

You will have people get into your boat who think they know everything about fishing and will not listen to you about the lures, location and techniques you say will work. If you dont have the skills to deal with these people then you will have a very long day on the water. These ( the one who think they know everything) are also usually the ones who will bad mouth you to everyone they meet after the trip and try to ruin your reputation.

Lake Fork was my first experience in dealing with freshwater guides.  One thing I noticed about the guy we hired that was a good business move was that his "guarentee" of fish was only good if you use his gear.  Rod/reel were all Kistler/shimano combos so no liability there.  Provided all the tackle.  Smart move.

I don't know if he had a deal with Kistler but if I were Kistler, I would stock his boat with the current line, 4 each!!  They are essentially "on water demo's".  I was persoanlly looking at those rods and was excited that I would get to try one before I bought one.

[senile1]

I've said it before and I will say it again: if you are hiring a guide do some research. I have seen all kinds of tactics used to promote oneself as having history and experience to do this job.

Oh don't I know it...... :-[

Thanks for your input on this one GW, great info. I'm interested because I've also been on the fence for years about what to do when I retire. I'm sure it will be somthing inthe industry but I don't know if I could cut it as a guide. At least as a guide I would want to hire. Just being honest with myself. I've always assumed the things you preach about the business but hearing it from your mouth makes it real.

I agree.  My wife and I have plans for living near, or on, a large lake at retirement, but as for being a guide, it takes years of fishing the same lake to be worthy of the title, IMO.  And as GW said, a bad guide is not good for fishing.  

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

I fell into guiding in 1990 just from winning a few tournaments in a row, locals contacting me pretty often wanting me to take them out. I didn't name a fee at first but simply took their money, at that time from guys that used guides just to get a better handle on the Arkansas River and knew the going price was $100 per half day.

I was careful never to promise they would CATCH bass, but I could put them on bass consistently. The catching was up to them, and that turned out to be a teaching burden on top of positioning the boat and all the other duties YOU have to do. Finding bass was rarely a problem there that lasted more than a few hours. Finding large bass was a lot tougher for clients demanding those.

As that sideline business limped along some marina and boat shop operators who knew me well began passing my name out after hearing from satisfied customers telling who taught them to fish that river. Get it? Too many learn and don't hire you back because they only needed a good one-shot start.

Then the problem comes of getting replacement non-local clients. I had a local dentist as a regular who liked not having to maintain a boat and equipment, and a few other repeats. At that point I was faced with self promotion out-of-town somehow or waiting until new blood came there asking who they should hire. Good grief! What is this? I never planned to be in the business, had never wanted in.

Another problem was only getting to fish a few hours a week between that and my full time job, where before I was on the river every day after work. It was getting to the point I began losing my love for fishing. It had become a chore instead of a hobby. My favorite rods and reels wore and broke a lot faster than I anticipated, then found myself buying that stuff very often compared to adding a rod & reel once a year. I was going through 20 a year where 8 rods had lasted me up to 10 years before! Most clients will NOT learn quickly enough to be careful with those rods. That's simply not a factor in the equation in their mind what a good trip ought to involve. And the LINE! I was buying it by the mile (not the cheap stuff), respooling nights because of hopeless birdsnests and of course the gritty river water and rock jetties. Reel maintenance was a weekly chore instead of once every two months.

Then I found out about the extra state guiding requirements, forked that out, and finally got right with my boat insurance. It wasn't long then the state demanded I start paying estimated taxes, a bill that continued whether I had that much extra income or not any particular quarter. It seemed the day the bills were due came only during dry spells. Then the IRS told me to do the same for them. That really complicated things, requiring "borrowed" money from my full time job. The only thing that worked right was the boat, a 2 year old Ranger with payments of $550 a month. It took no less boat than that for that river.

There were months I doubled my total net salary, but MAN what a task earning that! After 4 years of that I finally got rescued. Other guides pooled together to file a complaint I was taking business from them using information gained at work. In a sense that was truth, but that was exxagerated. I wasn't "taking" business from them. Guides there stay as busy as they want to be. I was given the choice, a guiding check or federal check for a living. Once again I was fishing for ME. And that's the way it stayed.

My advice? Being a good basser is a small part of it. Why? Because you no longer FISH, but instead have to TALK good fishing techniques well enough for clients to learn your skills, AND find bass for them. You had better become as good going after the other species too, as few clients understand your excuses for not wanting to put them on crappie. "Cap, I hear there's some big crappie here. Let's go for those instead of bass. I love eating those." Well, there you are. You have had to become a fully functional, legal, intelligent businessman that can keep good records and never run out of stock of things clients need. Did I mention replacing lost and worn lures? Or getting 3-4 hours sleep in 24? Gotta make a run to Stuttgart for some 6" shad for a picky client wanting to get in on some stripers....a circulator tank cost HOW much? Oh, man, I've only got ONE striper rod & reel! WHY did I say "come on down"?

Charge no less than anyone else. They shop around. The first question they will ask themselves is "Why are you cheaper?" They won't ask you why, but will try to book with the higher priced guide. People hiring guides want SERVICE, not a deal. He thinks "I bet that other guide is better since he charges more and knows he's worth it. After all, my TIME is valuable and I can't hardly get away to fish, and I want to KNOW I'll have a good trip." They really do think that way.

WHEW! Enough said from my corner...

Jim