How to catch a bedding female?

[mudcatwilly]

Lately, I've been fishing on various lake with semi-clear water.  I can see lunker females just leisurely swimming around the same spot, so I assumed that they are on beds.  I can pick off the males in the area, but I can't get that dang female to bite anything.  She just looks at my bait and lets it go by.  How do you catch that female?

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

She is in a cycle that is changing daily.  When the females very first were seen on the beds,and we removed the males, we got the same results.  Next day,same thing.  Day 3, the male was nowhere to be seen and we BOTH caught the female back to back.  First she took my buddies senko and then my jig immediately after she was put back.  Now THAT'S a defensive bite!  Give her a day or 2 to lock on.

Good luck.

[Tucson]

I've been working on this all my adult life....Oh wait - you're talking about fish.  Never mind.

[sparky]

My old 30-30 Winchester deer rifle matched with a Remington 150 Soft Point bullet works great.

Just kidding :-[

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

If sight anglers were really honest we'd find out catching the big females on or near a spawn bed is probably the most rare event in bass fishing, catching two bass on one lure probably more common. Many don't know how to sex a bass anyway unless eggs are poking out. They assume a monster bass is a female. Male bass become monsters too, but in any given age class males will be a little smaller than females simply because females continue feeding those days and weeks the males are fasting while doing guard duty. Out of 360 days a year in a female's life, one day, maybe two leaves her to be discovered by an angler, the odds in her favor of never being seen. In those few hours up shallow and exposed she will be at her highest state of wariness because that isn't her usual habitat. Basss don't get huge by lolling around in 2-8 feet of water most of the time alonga shoreline. Most of her time over a bed will be while getting eggs punched out and fertilized, a time she certainly won't stop to feed. Once it's done she quickly divorces the male and returns to more secure surroundings a little deeper. The best odds for catching her is in her comfort zone, not where she's most stressed. There is where she is more likely to be fooled by a lure when hungry enough to take chances. During the spawn I catch MOSTLY larger females during the spawn because I don't bother spawn beds these days. It doesn't pay unless the challenge of sight fishing is what keeps you in the sport. I've spent countless hours tempting single fish on any of many beds over the years, occasionally catching a big bass, almost always a male that doesn't need to be interrupted. Mess with both male & female on a bed together? No way! If both are there they are trying to fertilize eggs, and I don't want to affect that. One or the other might not return in time to finish properly, especially if I injure one catching it. While I'm getting him off the hook eggs are being swallowed by the ounce every second. My destination is the migration route bass take to and from spawning areas, in deeper water. From then on I mostly catch females because I fish deep most of the time, and that's where females spend more time than males. Our spawn is way over here, but 3 out of 4 of my bass have pairs of egg sacks that never got dropped. I'll see that through July. Those ladies remain much more aggressive than males longer, not weakened by the rigors of spawning, nothing like what a male goes through.

Jim

[CJ]

Great post Jim!

[MHH]

If sight anglers were really honest we'd find out catching the big females on or near a spawn bed is probably the most rare event in bass fishing, catching two bass on one lure probably more common. Many don't know how to sex a bass anyway unless eggs are poking out. They assume a monster bass is a female.

Jim

How do you properly sex a bass if no eggs can be seen?

[langs15]

I've been working on this all my adult life....Oh wait - you're talking about fish. Never mind.

Thought I was the only one...oh shoot, I didn't just say that...  :-[

[Guest the_muddy_man]

Take a shower , be polite and candles and soft music usually do the trick OH and wear some cologone

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

When sampling fish we use a rubber straw that's put in the genetal vent to extract either male milt or female eggs. Don't squeeze a bass trying to extract eggs. Once the spawn is over the males will lack milt and of course wouldn't normally have eggs, but recent news disputes that because of human female hormones getting through wastewater treatments in some heavily populated areas, causing males to develop eggs. Females can pack eggs into the summer, the full sacs felt by sliding finger down sides of the belly, finding matched pairs of lumps. When a pre-spawn to spawning female is distinded with eggs but not necessarily showing, the vent is usually protruding and inflamed like a red wart. A less reliable method most of the year is to examine the small scaleless patch around the genetal vent, that of the male circular and a female's oval shaped, but that isn't always the case. Genetics causes some variation on the size and shape of the scaleless patch, from lake to lake bass showing a "family" trait in such subtle ways. I've seen all sorts of shapes and area sizes. Pre-spawn through post spawn males of spawning size often have a lower tail worn flat from constant sweeping of a bed. It's very rare to find that in a female. It takes months for the male's tail to appear normal, but often fungus adds to the damage. I've also seen in person and read reports of very slight coloration differences in males of all the sunfish family, which includes largemouths, smallmouths and spotted bass, none of which are true basses, mostly color signs in eyes, pelvic fins, cheeks, but not nearly as pronounced as in Bluegills during their spawn. It requires holding a male and female together to see a slight irridescent sheen difference on some key scales. I suppose those markings help females respond to a courting male. But if you must know and want to be certain or try learning to be proficient identifying them, examine the genetal organs after cutting the fish open. Now you might understand why I caution folks about being so certain they caught a big male or female off a bed and all they know to look for is eggs. It's not as simple as turning a puppy on its back. I choose to protect bedding males, fishing for the reclusive females that are largely out of sight, knowing the bass I might catch on a bed is probably going to be a male at the very time of his life he needs to be left alone. But I'm not obsessed about him. All a lake needs is a tiny fraction of total beds to succeed, and an even smaller fraction of fry to live one year. But I don't want to waste any resource.

Jim

[MHH]

Thanks for the info.  I think I'll just remain content if it is a big fish and not worry about the sex.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

JIm- nfantastic posts, very informative.  2 things that stuck out to me from my experiences were that the 2 fish (male & female) on a bed are very often quite similar in size.  For example, I hit a 4.2 the other day and figured I had found the female from a bed (10-13 ft ish) but my buddy casted in the exact same spot while I was unhooking her and came up with a 5.9.  I doubt these were both females, bedding side by side!  I figure they were fromthe same bed, with the 4 being the male.  A "bull" male if you will.

The second thing is the inflamed vent on a female with egg.  It stays inflammed for a little while after they have emptied out also.

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

That's the way it was supposed to be, nearly matched pair. Studying the nature around bass is certainly interesting to me, and sure helps keep a bite going when many folks are left scratching their heads instead of catching bass. I'm a hog for knowledge of bass behavior, and in all that clues come for locating and catching them in tough times.

The female doesn't expel all her eggs on one bed, but will expel a third to half at a time for one male, then lay low until recruited by another male for another bed. Until she's done that vent remains swollen. Except for when "standing" together fertilizing and making more passes dropping eggs, she will take on the same aggressive protective attitude as the male. Both will kill or chase away any bed challenger. Once the male is satisfied the bed is full, he will begin butting the female to make her leave. He won't let her stay and admire the eggs. Soon enough the female would forget the purpose and threaten the bed. Hours later she will give up and swim back down stream, no longer welcome as a co guardian. In that brief window both male and female are catchable. Once she leaves, she is catchable for all the reasons bass bite, while the male bites only to protect the eggs (later the hatched fry), so bait presentations are limited to those that appeal to their protective instinct.  He won't bite out of hunger, curiosity, greed, gluttony, reflex, teritorial aggression or anger. The reproductive instinct overwhelms all other functions, even his own self survival. The largest male beds first in the best places, recruiting the largest female he can locate and court, so often the first mating pair are both equally large. The rejected female will then go out and wait for another suitably large male to pick her. She might have to settle for a smaller male the next round. Once she is emptied the next larger female goes to the front of the line and begins to spawn with a male. One male can begin another bed once the first one has produced fry capable of swimming off. So it is there is a succession of spawning, a "pecking order" of sorts, keeping the spawn going all around a lake, allowing for a concurrent pre-spawn, spawn and post spawn state for sometimes months. The staging begins in the warmest waters with the largest bass there, while the last parts to warm up accommodate the largest bass in cooler lake areas. Until the water is too warm for eggs to survive bass will spawn somewhere during that period until the smallest (10-11") get their chance. If water conditions change beyond those required by the bass, such as cooling back down from a cold front or heavy cold rain, or drop in lake level, those females with eggs abandon the spawn to resume normal activities, and the males abandon bed building. The eggs will be absorbed, and the male goes off to recuperate, then resume feeding as he is able to gather energy to feed. Meanwhile he is more likely to feed opportunistically, choosing easy targets he can just inhale without chasing. All along the females have had very little interruption in their feeding habits, not bothered with guard duty and fasting. That's why I believe floating worms and other slow offerings work best in post spawn. Among the most mature bass those are the least aggressive of feeders, feeding from ambushments as compared to roving juvenile bass eating anything they can get in their mouths. So from pre-spawn until end of the whole thing and on through the year those large females by far respond best to tempting slow moving lures brought by their ambush points in deeper water or around the heaviest cover that gives them optimal security. That's why you will find me fishing slightly lower channel bends, channel ledges, weedlines near the deepest water in the spawning areas and not up in the shallowest water where males have no choice but to remain exposed. I'll find the places the females hang out in where they can be courted when not feeding. So you have choices in that period. Appeal to the younger aggressive forage busters, the immature non-spawning bass and others subjectto the pecking order, using fast moving chase baits. They will be scattered all over shallow water, not confined to spawn areas. Appeal to bedding males, outraging them with baits that fool him into thinking his bed is threatened. He must usually be goaded into killing your bait. That's tough fishing with few bites in a day, but can produce a large mature bass, and less frequently a monster female. Or you can appeal to the normal day to day activities of females except when on a bed a day, using a variety of baits that appeal to the many reasons bass bite lures. That's the tactic that gets the most quality bites and fills livewells with quality fish.

Jim

[Mattlures]

Thats not the way it is out here. Our females dwarf the males on their beds. Mac's 25lber was bedding with a 1.5ber. and I completly disagree(respectfuly of course) that catching big bedding females is rare. I do it all the time. I do not like to teach people how to do it because too many people will keep the fish and their is so much pressure down here I have to keep my edge. If you need proof I have a lot of pictures   I will tell you this. The guys who I consider the best sight fisherman in the world will NEVER and I mean NEVER romove the male. Did I say NEVER? well just in case I didnt......NEVER!!!! I learned from these guys including Mike Long who has caught about 60 bass over 15lbs and at least half were bed fish.  Beleive me there are definatly guys who know how to get the big girls to bite on their beds. Removing the male spooks the female. Then it becomes extremly dificult to catch her. Now I am not talking about little females(under 8lbs) Those are easy and will sometimes protect when the male is removed but try that on a big girl out here and its over, you loose.

[Rattletrap]

A white jig hooked inside the mouth.  ;D

[Mattlures]

rattletrap I know you are being funny but you are right. That can be a good bed bait.

[Rattletrap]

White allows you to see the the lure better. White tubes also.

[Gatorbassman]

I will have to agree with Mattlures. It is the same thing down here in GA. 99% of the time the bigger ones are the females. The big one I caught on bed last week was bedding with a 11or 12 inch male. I know he was the male because I saw them activly spawning and with several years of doing this, and with super clear water I could tell by the way they were acting witch was witch.

Now as for the origonal question. I will give you the short answer. For the first several minutes of fishing on the bed. Do not catch the male. Let him pick it up and carry it off many times without setting the hook. As this happens time and time again you may notice the female taking more interest in what the male is doing. Before long she will move in and try to get to you lure. The male might try to sheild her from it but if you stay at it she might pick it up. If after several minutes of try this she loses intrest. Catch the male.

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

Matt, I realize there are a very few anglers who specialize in sight fishing and are quite successful at it. Compared to the total number of bass anglers successful sight anglers are rare. I know a guy who fishes for bass using beer cans and bottle caps, and he catches a lot of bass. His experience doesn't represent a significant crowd among bass anglers. Caught 60 over 15 pounds! That's nice, but if you divide the number of guys doing that into the total numbers of us, you won't break 1%, ever. In other words, that isn't something the average angler should hope to emulate. For one reason few lakes produce 15 pound bass. What I speak of is nature and the normal behavior of bass. You speak of a peculiar niche among a very small group of specialty anglers enjoying a rare fishery few of us will ever experience. I don't have a Lake Dixon type lake in Arkansas, neither do most of us here have access to such an unusual fishery.

If the monster females are pairing with 2 pound males then possibly there's a size class problem there between males and females. Obviously those are the best a female can find. Males often do die come winter from falling behind so badly because of the rigors of spawn.

Hey, look. I've gone sight fishing here and caught some wall hangers doing that. So I know I can do it. It was neat. I did that in Florida, too, catching my personal best there. But I stopped doing that for several reasons. However, I know lots of excellent anglers with a fantastic bass sense that admit they've tried that and not done better than the usual styles of fishing other times of the year. There's a lot of luck in it, just being there when the big female is present and the water clear enough to see her. I think I was 25 years old before I saw for the first time a bedding bass of whatever sex, all the years before the spring waters too dirty to see a fish unless it was breaking the surface after a shad. Such factors alone make just finding a big bedding bass a rare thing for most of us. The Classic in Florida is a case in point. Sight fishing masters were counting on fishing their strength, but the weather killed that. So even at its best I still say catching bedding females is extremely rare, of course in relation to all bassers. For you it isn't rare, and that's cool. But what you experience doesn't fit the norm and certainly isn't an experience most of will find a place for that to happen. Enjoy it all you can!

Jim

[Mattlures]

Ok I'll buy most of that except the part about luck. I dont believe in it.  And Yes Mike L  is a freak. He is the the best of the best of big bass.

[Randall]

Thats not the way it is out here. Our females dwarf the males on their beds. Mac's 25lber was bedding with a 1.5ber. and I completly disagree(respectfuly of course) that catching big bedding females is rare. I do it all the time. I do not like to teach people how to do it because too many people will keep the fish and their is so much pressure down here I have to keep my edge. If you need proof I have a lot of pictures I will tell you this. The guys who I consider the best sight fisherman in the world will NEVER and I mean NEVER romove the male. Did I say NEVER? well just in case I didnt......NEVER!!!! I learned from these guys including Mike Long who has caught about 60 bass over 15lbs and at least half were bed fish. Beleive me there are definatly guys who know how to get the big girls to bite on their beds. Removing the male spooks the female. Then it becomes extremly dificult to catch her. Now I am not talking about little females(under 8lbs) Those are easy and will sometimes protect when the male is removed but try that on a big girl out here and its over, you loose.

Agree with Matt 100%. The best way to catch a big female is dont catch the males. I even leave males alone if I dont see a female with them.  It might be different somewhere else but on the lakes I fish you cant win a tournament without catching a big female or two off a bed during April. Try other ways to catch them and you will usually catch 0 big females. I know the big females still feed off the bed because I catch them with huge shad in their throat but they arent that catchable by anglers because when they arent on the bed they are suspended over the closest deeper water. They are still shallow just over deeper water. These suspended fish are the toughest fish to catch not the ones on the beds. The other thing I will add is that catching a big female has a lot to do with timing. Triton Mike and Doghouse can verify that I told them both when a big bunch of females could be caught on Varner this year. I went out the next day and caught five fish that weighed 47.4 lbs and none of these five were males because I watched the males with Doghouse go out to a ditch where the females were suspended and get the females the day before. When the males went out to get the females and were trying to get them on the bed the females werent real catchable. They would cruise around on the flat and go back to the ditch where they would suspend and wait on the right male. The next day after they had deposited eggs the afternoon and night before they were catchable although harder to catch than the males.

[RoLo]

I know the big females still feed off the bed because I catch them with huge shad in their throat but they arent that catchable by anglers because when they arent on the bed they are suspended over the closest deeper water. They are still shallow just over deeper water. These suspended fish are the toughest fish to catch not the ones on the beds.

Randall, you said a mouthful and therein lies the key.

I can't speak for California, but in eastern United States (Florida to Canada)

large cow bass do not go deep, not even during the post-spawn.

Instead they move parallel over deeper water, while maintaining a similar depth.

Suspended largemouth bass are hard to find and even harder to catch.

Roger

[Guest ouachitabassangler]

Florida? I could agree on that. Not many alternatives for bass there. I'm willing to strecth the line directlyfrom Florida to Canada, all of it in the Atlantic, where I would agree largemouths don't go deep, partly because there are no largemouths in the Atlantic. I happen to believe LMBs have a general physiology and behavior that is the same in every state they are found in. Just like in deep canyon lakes out West bass are frequently brought up from 30-60 feet, there is no reason to believe they don't live deep elsewhere if deep water exists and sufficient oxygen is there. That happens here too, the issue behind needing to know how to deflate an air bladder. Too many pros and guides believe in deep structure bassing to write it off as a shallow dwelling fish. Most science supports the great majority of mature bass spending most of their lives deeper than 15 feet, some estimates of 80% deep. During the spawn many don't go shallower than 12 feet, while those accustomed to living shallow will spawn shallower. We don't get to see the really big females like we sometimes see the shallow residents coming up from 12-15 feet to one foot to spawn. It's a myth that most bass live shallow, probably believed because most anglers don't know how to locate or fish for bass deep, so all they know about is the shallow ones. I've viewed way too many low altitude aerial photos of lakes and rivers, using filters to pick up heat, sediments, most anything other than water, often not showing enough shoreline fish to fill a train box car, yet it's known there's an excellent stocking there. Huge schools can be seen in open water most months of the year. They don't stay shallow any longer than needed to feed if that's where forage is. There are some exceptions, maybe up to 20% choosing to live shallow. There have been so many studies disproving the notion most bass live shallow. I'll try to remember one that placed cameras on poles around a lake, taking motion sensor photos, capable of photographing bottom in 20 feet of clear water with a calm surface. It was very uncommon to see any fish other than panfish swim by except at night, an occasional bass or small school of them. If most bass dwelt shallow the photos should have been constantly cluttered with bass images. Climb a tree overlooking shoreline where you can see deep. You'll mostly see carp & bream, an occasional bass, certainly not the lake's population of bass there. Bass have been radio tagged and foundto not be travellers, so whatever population is living in a particular area ought to be seen in its entirity if living in shallow water near shore. But turn on the sonar and what do you find? I find huge numbers, large schools, individuals, mostly away from shallow water along a shoreline, in water 15-30 feet in spring & early summer, forced a little shallower by a thermocline, then going much deeper come winter after the fall turnover. Granted, they are harder to catch, but they are caught, and it is out of their numbers (80%) the shallow dwellers come from.

Jim