World record bass..or is it????

[GamblerFL]

You make some good points. First you will never get me on the live bait debate. I dont use and it if you look in another thread before this one was started you will see that I said any large bass caught on live bait doesnt impress me at all. Not that I think there is anything wrong with using live bait, I just feel an 8 pounder on a lure is harder than a 12 pounder on live bait.

About the size of the fish in other lakes. I agree their are some huge fish in California. Makes you wonder why they brought Florida bass to the state. That is still one question that I have never been able to read on the internet an find an answer to. Why did they bring the bass to a state that seemed to already have some big bass?

As far as me saying there was something wrong going on...I dont think I ever said that. You have to understand where I am coming from. I dont have a problem in the world with what California is doing. I think it is great. I think for people to be able to go after huge bass is great for everyone. The people fishing and the state itself. I am 100% for them doing what they are doing. Thats one part of it. The part I dont agree with is if a record is caught, I dont think it is the same as the old world record.

This is a little long but here is the way I look at it.

The top 25 bass ever caught has been re-writen since the 80's. You have to keep in mind that we know of two huge fish caught years ago. One was in 1923 and one in 1932. Now I have no way of going back to look before the 80's what the top 25 bass were. All I can do is look at the list as it is today. In 1973 there was a big fish caught in California. Now if you look at the top 25 biggest bass ever caught, and this goes back 83 years, 19 of the 25 have been caught from 1980 to now and all 19 are from California out of the same lakes. So I have to ask myself, with all the lakes through out this country why would 19 of the 25 biggest bass ever caught come from a hand full of lakes in California within the same area of the state. Well if I were to look to find out what was different, I would come up with the fact that all 19 fish are a Florida strain bass that are offsprings of the original 20,000 brought to California in 1959. Now as I said before I dont know what the sizes were before the list of the 25 at this time. I would almost bet that all of these 19 places werent held by bass from California. So it pretty much tells me that there are huge fish in California and there is one reason for all these 19 to be on the list. All are Florida strain bass and just about all are trout fed. Is there any problem with a state doing this? Not at all. Do I have a probleem with this? Not at all. The only point I have tried to make is that to catch a world record out of one of these lakes, and I will say this really is more for the trout fed bass, to catch a record there should be a note about the bass. The note should state how this fish was able to grow to the size it is. Now we all know they do release the bass. (I have no problem with that) We can all bet because they want the record and you wouldnt want to keep one close. But what it does is sort of throws the top 25 for a loop. I know the 22 pound 4 ounce would never have been caught again, because he ate it. But if you look at the top 25 there is a couple of strange things about it.

#2 was 22 pounds 1/2 ounce which was caught 7 days later on the same lake as( #3) 21 pound 12 ounces. (#6) was 21 pounds 1/2 ounce which was caught within 3 days of a year earlier on the same lake and was caught by the same guy that caught #2. (#8 was 19 pounds 14 ounces which was caught one month 4 days before #6 on the same lake. (#20) was 19 pounds 1/2 ounce which was caught 11 months before #20 on the same lake. So from what I have read most bass as an average will gain 1 pound a year. Give or take a few ounces.

So we have the same lake with

(#24)18 pounds 14 ounces caughtFebruary12,1988

(#20) 19 pounds 1/2 ounce caught January 8, 1989

#8 20 pounds, 14 ounces caught February 4,1990

(#6) 21 pounds 1/2 ounce caught March 9, 1990

(#3) 21 pounds, 12 ounces caught March 5, 1991

(#2) 22 pounds 1/2 ounce caught March 12, 1991

Now based roughly on a pound a year in growth, you have one pound and a year and 2 months between #20 and #6 and one pound between #6 and #2 in one year and 3 days. I'm not saying that it is the same fish but man it looks like it. By the way #6 and #2 were caught by the same guy and #24 and #20 were by the same guy.

Now #4 and # 9 are not from the same lake as above this but they are both from the same lake as each other. These are the two you were talking about that they know were the same fish. Both from California, Florida strain, trout fed.

The third of these same hand full of lakes has the #23 and #24 largest bass. One was 18 pounds 13 ounces and one was 18 pounds 15 ounces caught 2 months apart.

22 of the 25 largest bass are from California. Only one of the 22 are from a lake not stocked with trout.

So the above is why I wonder if it should be a record if caught out of one of these lakes. There is a reason 21 of the top 25 are out of these lakes.

Again let me say this is nothing against the guys catching them. That would be tough to do. This is nothing against California and what they do with their fish. This is about 2 fish caught years ago that were huge that were caught in lakes that were never messed with that will probably soon be off the record list by 25 bass caught in lakes in california that stocked bass and fed them trout.

[Mattlures]

Another thing that you may not know about our lakes is that they go through cycles. The probability of those bass that you mentioned being the same fish is minute. Bob Crupie who has the #2 (which I believe to be the true world record) has caught many bass in the high teens from castaic, but that lake hasn't produced a big fish in a while. The way it works is like this. One or two lakes will kick out a few big fish and then they taper off. I beleive this is because they are of the same spawn or at least the same year class. Castaic continues to produce big bass but not huge ones. Our lakes levels are continually going up and down witch can destroy a spawn. Usualy when one of those 20lbers were caught several others in the high teens were also caught within a year or two. When Dickerson caught that 21 his partner caught a 19 the week before at the same lake, but it was not the same fish. I fish alot of these lakes so I kinda have an Idea witch lakes will kick out big fish each year.

You said you think that all are big bass are of florida strain, well of course they are or at least have some in them.  Bottom line is , If the record is caught in a legal sporting manner in a public lake where it has lived its whole life. and it meets all of the IGFA reqirements than it will be the world record. It wont matter if the bass ate trout or anything else. Now if somebody were to raise a record fish in a aquarium or small pond and then catch it of course it shouldnt count.

One more thing you said all but two of the fish came from Cali and the others were from Georga and florida. I dont know anything about the Florida fish but I do know if George Perry were to submit his fish today without a picture or a carcass and have his brother in law as his witness the IGFA would reject it. I dont know if he caught it or not but I do know that based on the lack of proof it should not be recognized.  Bob Crupie with a photographed and documented 22lb1oz bass should be the world record holder.

[BCAlbin]

Guys....This is getting old...

[JT Bagwell]

My thoughts are on the front page of this site, in my column for this week.  ;D

JT Bagwell

[GamblerFL]

My thoughts are on the front page of this site, in my column for this week. ;D

JT Bagwell

I just read your column. It was a pretty good write up. The only thing I would say is that I dont hope the 22 pounds 4 ounce bass record lasts forever. I would like to see it be broken. I just hope across the board people will have to face the fact that it has fallen. When one of those lakes in California breaks it, I can bet you the bass world as a whole wont agree it was broken. So many people dont know the background of those bass. When that record falls, you can bet there wont be a fisherman out there that wont know, as Paul Harvey says "The rest of the story"

[abelfisher]

I'm with bcalbin...this  is getting old.  

[Marty]

Guys....This is getting old...

I'm with bcalbin...this  is getting old.

I don't mean to be rude by any stretch of the imagination, but then why are you still reading and posting to this thread?   ???

[Chris]

About maybe 15 miles from my house is a lake thats stocked every year with rainbow trout. (I live in Illinois)It also has bass, bluegills, crappie, perch, spots, smallmouth, and channel catfish. This lake has a 3 fish limit of 14 inches. Max depth of 50 ft. It has plenty of cover, flats, points, grass, and humps in it. It is also clear water. I have fished this lake hard for the past three years and I can count on one hand how many fish I have caught 5lbs or bigger in this lake. About a year and a half maybe two years ago In early spring I caught a bass that was 9 1/2 lbs on a spinnerbait. The fish had a crappie tail hanging out of its stomach. To my knowledge this is the biggest bass that has ever been caught in that lake.(It was released)I have talked to others who trout fish and they have told me stories of bass taking their trout when they where hooked. So its a good bet that these bass are eating the stocked trout. This lake is stocked every year with 20,000 trout. This lake will never produce a record bass even though a northern bass has a longer life span than a Florida strain. The genetics and the environment are not there to grow a 20+ fish. In Florida it takes a Florida strain bass to reach 9 to 10 lbs about 10 years that 9 1/2 lb fish I caught might have been 20 years old. Any native bass in California might take 20 years to reach 10 lbs. A Florida bass is different. The genetics are different. It has a faster growth rate and the genetics to grow big quickly. Thats why this is such a debate. Let me also add that even if you stock a lake with Florida bass it has to have the genetics and environment to grow big. Not all Florida bass are able to grow over 10 lbs. If you take a bass who has the genetics to grow big it passes that gene to its off spring. So even if the lake was stocked in the 30's or 70's the genetics are still there in the lake and thats a gene pool that California never had naturally.

[GamblerFL]

About maybe 15 miles from my house is a lake thats stocked every year with rainbow trout. (I live in Illinois)It also has bass, bluegills, crappie, perch, spots, smallmouth, and channel catfish. This lake has a 3 fish limit of 14 inches. Max depth of 50 ft. It has plenty of cover, flats, points, grass, and humps in it. It is also clear water. I have fished this lake hard for the past three years and I can count on one hand how many fish I have caught 5lbs or bigger in this lake. About a year and a half maybe two years ago In early spring I caught a bass that was 9 1/2 lbs on a spinnerbait. The fish had a crappie tail hanging out of its stomach. To my knowledge this is the biggest bass that has ever been caught in that lake.(It was released)I have talked to others who trout fish and they have told me stories of bass taking their trout when they where hooked. So its a good bet that these bass are eating the stocked trout. This lake is stocked every year with 20,000 trout. This lake will never produce a record bass even though a northern bass has a longer life span than a Florida strain. The genetics and the environment are not there to grow a 20+ fish. In Florida it takes a Florida strain bass to reach 9 to 10 lbs about 10 years that 9 1/2 lb fish I caught might have been 20 years old. Any native bass in California might take 20 years to reach 10 lbs. A Florida bass is different. The genetics are different. It has a faster growth rate and the genetics to grow big quickly. Thats why this is such a debate. Let me also add that even if you stock a lake with Florida bass it has to have the genetics and environment to grow big. Not all Florida bass are able to grow over 10 lbs. If you take a bass who has the genetics to grow big it passes that gene to its off spring. So even if the lake was stocked in the 30's or 70's the genetics are still there in the lake and thats a gene pool that California never had naturally.

I agree with you. It is sort of strange that last night on Hank Parker outdoors they were fishing Castaic lake. I didnt get to see the begining of the show but I believe he must have been fishing with a couple of the guys that were after the record. There was one other guy in his own boat that was also part of the show. That is one nice looking lake. I wish we had lakes here in Florida that looked like that.

While they were filming they showed the truck back up to the side of the lake and dump a huge tank full of trout into the lake. It was interesting that they seemed to be waiting for the truck and fishing where it dumped. They were using a huge 8 inch long swim bait rainbow trout. I was suprised and even Hank Parker was saying he couldnt believe the size of the lure. They of course didnt catch any 20 + pound bass but they pulled in a few 12+ pound bass.

This whole thread might not even matter. There is a lake that they feel will produce the next world record. It also has the Florida strain bass but the interesting thing about it is, bassmasters is part of it. If this does happen the world record will leave the united states. This lake is 10,250 miles from Lake Castaic. It is in Zimbabwe and thats where Ray Scott feels the record will come from.

To answer the subject brought up above about the world record that Perry caught not being a record if it were caught today because of not having the information needed. It was writen above that the size of the bass was taken from Perry and his brother. The pictures below is on the way to Lake Montgomery where he caught it. It shows the pictures of the bass and also seems to show it laying by a ruler.

[squid]

This is one Topic that I have enjoyed reading....lots of humor in [glb]ALL[/glb] of it, if you don't take it seriously.  Who cares where the record comes from....I just want to see it happen while I am still alive.  

I just don't like the way the woman was treated when she had it beat....seems like they didn't want it beat just yet to me, or maybe by a woman.

[bassmaster043]

Yeah this is a great topic !!!!!!!!!

[GamblerFL]

This has been a hot one. I thought it might change it up a little from other topics. I think it has been a good one. There is no right or wrong answer, it is just interesting to read about how most people would look at it. I think what would be real interesting is if the record did fall to a different country. Makes you wonder if it did fall to another country if people then would start saying it shouldnt count because the bass shouldnt have been there. ;D

[Marty]

This is one Topic that I have enjoyed reading....lots of humor in [glb]ALL[/glb] of it, if you don't take it seriously.  Who cares where the record comes from....I just want to see it happen while I am still alive.  

I just don't like the way the woman was treated when she had it beat....seems like they didn't want it beat just yet to me, or maybe by a woman.

I recall when she and her son were a hot topic a year or two ago, but I don't remember the details. However, I seem to recall that there was some funny stuff and it wouldn't have been accepted regardless of gender.

I also would like to see the record broken. From what communication I've had with some of the California trophy hunters, the worst nightmare imaginable for them would be for the record to be caught by some guy who was drowning a worm looking for crappie. Ouch!

[Mattlures]

That picture of Perry must be of another large fish. he was a good big bass fisherman and caught other big fish, but the record was never photographed.

The Lady who claimed to have caught the record was not belevable. Her story was very inconsistant and the fish in the photo was at least 5lbs under the record. She and her son claimed they thaught the world record was 24lbs and thats why they released the fish. Her son who was with her when she caught it had submitted entries for line class records and also had his boga grip scale certified by the IGFA before they caught that fish. They only had one photo were she stuck her arm all the way out and her fist was bigger than her head. The fish was no were near 23lbs. also it had a huge sagging bulge in the lower part of its belly. They also didnt turn the fish into the ranger. they had one witness who was a guy camping. The IGFA apropriatly threw it out. When somebody does break the record they will keep the fish and get it certified. That show with Hank Parker is funny. He had no idea how to use the big baits. also an 8-9in bait out here is a medium bait. I know guys who throw 15inchers. This thred is very interesting to me. I am suprised at the diferent opinions. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE RECORD FALLING TO A GUY FISHING FOR CRAPPIE(or using playdoe for trout) I would be crushed!

[tie1on]

It should count.If you go to basssmaster.com right now they have a story called growing big bass in small ponds.This topic is fun and is getting old though.Let me just say that I live in Texas but I think if the record is caught in California it should count.Just my personal opinion is that the best genetics do come from Florida.The Florida strain bass is the bass that everyone wants in their state.That I know of the Florida strain bass is the largest. No matter which state the new world record comes from it should count.But Florida will always get credit because thats where the really big bass came from origanlly.Except for that monster caught in Georgia.

[Tom]

I personally think it should count. A fish is a fish is a fish. If most of you guys would have caught that fish, I guarantee most of you would argue for the record, simply because it is a fish, it's a record, and you caught it. If someone would put a bass on steroids, have it become a world record by far, and put it in a local lake around you that only a few people fish, again most of you would probably take a shot at it because it a fish. If you were in that guy's shoes, you would be thinking what I'm thinking. If you catch a fish, no matter where you get it, just so it is in water, everyone else had a fair shot at it. Someone is eventually going to get it, and it is like winning the lottery. Do you argue if someone wins the state lottery in Rhode Island just because it is small? No, because everyone in Rhode Island has a fair shot in it. Same with the fish, it was in the lake, and anyone could have caught it that fished the lake and I bet a ton of people fished there. No matter who caught it, they deserve it if they caught it and it was in the water (in my opinion).

[Stickling]

words biggest bass pic, here :http://www.fishing-worldrecords.com/

Go to photo Gallery then:

Its at the top of page 7

[GamblerFL]

Look at the nile perch at the bottom. Man oh man!

[Mattlures]

Stickling, That is a picture of a replica. not a replica of the actual fish but one that was built to fit the measurements. Perry and his family ate the bass that night for dinner.

[Fisher of Men]

World record caught by a crappie fisherman?  It was here in Texas (well the state record).  Barry St. Clair, the guy who caught the current state record of 18.18 lbs. caught it on a minnow in deep water on Fork.  He now (or did four or five years ago) works at the Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center in Athens, Texas.  When I was there a few years back, he'd talk about the catch in front of the dive show theatre, but never mention how he caught it. Of course he didn't lie, he just left the part about crappie fishing out.  Of course I wouldn't like it if someone crappie or trout fishing caught the world record, but a catch is a catch.  I know if I was crappie fishing and caught it, I'd feel different about it.  That's not what any of us bass anglers want, but then again, it would be kind of funny if some granpa or some five year old drags it in on a crappie rig.

[chefxian]

Yes the record should count. I just moved from Southern California a year ago to Florida. I lived an hour a way from Castaic.  Bob Crupi is the man. Someone previously mentioned that California bass are tougher to catch, that is the truth. If you think your going to California on a bass excursion and that these lunkers jump into your boat. Good Luck.

[Stickling]

Stickling, That is a picture of a replica. not a replica of the actual fish but one that was built to fit the measurements. Perry and his family ate the bass that night for dinner.

Still a picture of what it looked like.