jig as drop shot weight?

[mase088]

I was flippin through a Bassin mag at the store when i saw a jig fshing article that suggested using a larger jig as the weight on your drop shot. Now that i think about it, it just makes too much since NOT to do. Has anyone ever done this? How much more successful were you? Actually catch fish on the jig?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[basser89]

Sadly, I've only used this set up once on a small private pond. I say sadly because it did work out for me that day (just not sure why I haven't used it since) and I actually had a bass on both baits. I was d-shotting a 4" white tube with a 1/2oz jig underneath. The one on the tubes was barely a keeper but the one on the jig was definitely a better bass. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see the one on the jig because it wrapped me around a post of the dock I was fishing on and I couldn't get her unwrapped. Guess I'll be breaking that rig back out! Thanks for reminding me about it!!!

[J Francho]

A recent conversation:

Me: As for the jig at the bottom of the DS rig, well I'm not sold on it being a solid finesse rig, maybe on a heavier magnum rig for cannonballing mats and pads, though. There are just too many knots between the jig and the reel. I've tried it, and caught fish on both the top bait and the jig (not at the same time, LOL) without issues, but come TX day, you know that 4#er will break off.

Friend: The set up will not have extra knots, from a reg DS rig, if you're not using anyother hardware. I see no differences from the reg DS rig beside replacing the weight with a Jig(it's a weight with a hook)

Me: on a regular DS rig, the fish doesn't bite the weight! If the fish bites the jig at the bottom, there is a knot at the hook. Let me put it to you this way, if you were fishing a jig alone, would you feel confident about landing a big fish if there was a knot in the line? Of course not, you'd retie the jig. If you want to fish a jig, fish a jig. If you want to DS, then fish a DS . See where I'm going with this? On a plain jig, its fish, hook, knot, line, rod and reel, and you. One the rig your suggesting, its fish, jig, knot, line, hook and knot, line rod and reel, and you. Too many odds stacked against you, unless you are going to use overkill gear, then if the bite is on, its game on.

Friend: I'm talking about doing it with heavy line not lite line.

I don't a think a knot on 30#+ braid will weaken the line, but I could be wrong.

Me: Don't pass the tag end back through the hook eye then, as the shock of the hookset will cause it to snap. Learned the hard way, LOL. I actually think that as the knot spins around the hook, it gets sliced by the end of the eye. The other issue I had, is that a jig hookset is different than the snap hookset you use for the DS. How do you know what got bit?

Anyway, I had another thought on it. What about nose hooking a baby fluke and using another fluke on a trailer hook? Might end up in a tangled mess, though.

Other Friend: This technique looks good for flipping heavy cover like pads. Also on the DS with a jig on the bottom is a very goof techinique I learned from bearpaw at whaley, he caught fish in both baits! I could only catch fish on dropshot. I was using 8lbs test on spining tackle. I also like using a shakey head or tube on the bottom too. (this friend can't spell  ;D)

Me: Here's my dumb question: If you are catching fish on a jig, then why bother with a DS? I mean, with every fish caught, the DS rig gets mangled, and you have to retie. With a jig, its just one knot.

Friend: Banging 2 at a time is, That's what's up!

Me: You wish!  

Friend: It won't hurt to try it, the most you going to lose is a jig and hook.

Me: Or the tourney. Extract all the jig fish first, then go back and dissect the spot with a DS. I see no good reason to over complicate it.

Other Friend: We were marking fish suspended just off the bottom, enough so that we could tie a bottom oriented rig if a fish wants it there and if they dont , we could catch them suspended on a ds

Me: Why would you assume that a jig only catches bottom fish?

Personally, I think you could have caught all the quality fish with a jig in that situation, if it was fished appropriately. Then go back and try for the less active suspended fish when the jig bite dies down.

Let me put the opposite question to you. If two rigs are better than one, and causes no issues, why not tie a third rig at the top, like a fluke? Shouldn't you be trying for those suspended fish that are looking up for food? When does it end? At what point does diminished returns cancel out the advantages? I'm saying its when you put a jig at the bottom.

I'm just saying, you can't fish a jig in the most effective manner when it is at the bottom of a DS rig when fishing with a DS wiggle and drift. Like wise, you can't do the wiggle and drift DS thing when fishing a jig effectively.

The whole thing just sounds more like a compromise than an effective tool. We'll have no way of knowing, because you didn't try one over the other.

Friend: It's to fish school'n fish. same thing you would do for pannies.....

Hook set, I would still set the hook(3/0 EWG) hard.. It won't matter about what rig the fish hit, set it on both.

I know you ask WHY would you do it if they're hitt'n a DS, why not? Maybe there another lunker down there that wants to play too. who knows?

It's thinking out side the box.....

Me: I know your thinking up things that are new and different, and I'm not trying to discourage it. But think about it, I have no doubt that small grub tied to the tail of a Pop-R wouldn't catch fish, in fact, that's another case of been there - done that and it does catch. But my question is: Did I catch fish that I wouldn't have caught with a simpler rig? I don't think so.

Friend: I don't dick around during a TX.....but then again......If 2 4's take both and you land both....

Me: I contend that you would get both fish with one or the other, but not both at once. And on the days that people claim to get doubles on the one rig, I say the fish were probably biting well enough to use one or the other to get both separately, and that you were wasting time re-rigging with your bait out of the water.

Friend: you would never know unless you try it....

Me: I did. That's how I came to this conclusion. That's why I stated my opinion so strongly offered some advice. Otherwise, I would said go for it and report back.

[mase088]

A recent conversation:

Me: As for the jig at the bottom of the DS rig, well I'm not sold on it being a solid finesse rig, maybe on a heavier magnum rig for cannonballing mats and pads, though. (1.)There are just too many knots between the jig and the reel. I've tried it, and caught fish on both the top bait and the jig (not at the same time, LOL) without issues, but come TX day, you know that 4#er will break off.

Friend: The set up will not have extra knots, from a reg DS rig, if you're not using anyother hardware. I see no differences from the reg DS rig beside replacing the weight with a Jig(it's a weight with a hook)

Me: on a regular DS rig, the fish doesn't bite the weight! If the fish bites the jig at the bottom, there is a knot at the hook. Let me put it to you this way, if you were fishing a jig alone, would you feel confident about landing a big fish if there was a knot in the line? Of course not, you'd retie the jig. If you want to fish a jig, fish a jig. If you want to DS, then fish a DS . See where I'm going with this? On a plain jig, its fish, hook, knot, line, rod and reel, and you. One the rig your suggesting, its fish, jig, knot, line, hook and knot, line rod and reel, and you. Too many odds stacked against you, unless you are going to use overkill gear, then if the bite is on, its game on.

Friend: I'm talking about doing it with heavy line not lite line.

I don't a think a knot on 30#+ braid will weaken the line, but I could be wrong.

Me: Don't pass the tag end back through the hook eye then, as the shock of the hookset will cause it to snap. Learned the hard way, LOL. I actually think that as the knot spins around the hook, it gets sliced by the end of the eye. The other issue I had, is that a jig hookset is different than the snap hookset you use for the DS. How do you know what got bit?

Anyway, I had another thought on it. What about nose hooking a baby fluke and using another fluke on a trailer hook? Might end up in a tangled mess, though.

Other Friend: This technique looks good for flipping heavy cover like pads. Also on the DS with a jig on the bottom is a very goof techinique I learned from bearpaw at whaley, he caught fish in both baits! I could only catch fish on dropshot. I was using 8lbs test on spining tackle. I also like using a shakey head or tube on the bottom too. (this friend can't spell ;D)

Me: Here's my dumb question: If you are catching fish on a jig, then why bother with a DS? I mean, with every fish caught, the DS rig gets mangled, and you have to retie. With a jig, its just one knot.

Friend: Banging 2 at a time is, That's what's up!

Me: You wish!

Friend: It won't hurt to try it, the most you going to lose is a jig and hook.

Me: Or the tourney. Extract all the jig fish first, then go back and dissect the spot with a DS. I see no good reason to over complicate it.

Other Friend: We were marking fish suspended just off the bottom, enough so that we could tie a bottom oriented rig if a fish wants it there and if they dont , we could catch them suspended on a ds

Me: Why would you assume that a jig only catches bottom fish?

Personally, I think you could have caught all the quality fish with a jig in that situation, if it was fished appropriately. Then go back and try for the less active suspended fish when the jig bite dies down.

Let me put the opposite question to you. If two rigs are better than one, and causes no issues, why not tie a third rig at the top, like a fluke? Shouldn't you be trying for those suspended fish that are looking up for food? When does it end? At what point does diminished returns cancel out the advantages? I'm saying its when you put a jig at the bottom.

I'm just saying, (2.)you can't fish a jig in the most effective manner when it is at the bottom of a DS rig when fishing with a DS wiggle and drift. Like wise, you can't do the wiggle and drift DS thing when fishing a jig effectively.

The whole thing just sounds more like a compromise than an effective tool. We'll have no way of knowing, because you didn't try one over the other.

Friend: It's to fish school'n fish. same thing you would do for pannies.....

Hook set, I would still set the hook(3/0 EWG) hard.. It won't matter about what rig the fish hit, set it on both.

I know you ask WHY would you do it if they're hitt'n a DS, why not? Maybe there another lunker down there that wants to play too. who knows?

It's thinking out side the box.....

Me: I know your thinking up things that are new and different, and I'm not trying to discourage it. But think about it, I have no doubt that small grub tied to the tail of a Pop-R wouldn't catch fish, in fact, that's another case of been there - done that and it does catch. But my question is: Did I catch fish that I wouldn't have caught with a simpler rig? I don't think so.

Friend: I don't dick around during a TX.....but then again......If 2 4's take both and you land both....

Me: I contend that you would get both fish with one or the other, but not both at once. And on the days that people claim to get doubles on the one rig, I say the fish were probably biting well enough to use one or the other to get both separately, and that you were wasting time re-rigging with your bait out of the water.

Friend: you would never know unless you try it....

Me: I did. That's how I came to this conclusion. That's why I stated my opinion so strongly offered some advice. Otherwise, I would said go for it and report back.

1. There is actually one less knot than a carolina rig, if you dont use keepers.

2. I think the point is to fish it like a DS, and just have the jig there on the off chance a bass wants it, after all it may not be getting fished exactly the way a jig would, but its still being fished similar, even while correctly fishing the DS.

Thanks for your response. Like you said if the jig bite is on, I'm definitely not going to be wasting my time doing this, ill just tie on a jig.

Anyone else have any experience? I'm fishing my first tourney sunday and definitely think this is a potential weapon, that is, if my boater chooses to fish in a suitable area.

[J Francho]

I see your counterpoints, and like I said to my friends, it just doesn't fit my style of fishing.  Yank on a knot to swivel connection and see if you can break it.  Probably not.  Yank on a the bottom of a DS rig, and I bet the line gets a little mangled at the hook.  

One thing I didn't mention, watch out for twist - make sure the knot is in the middle of the jig eye.  One other issue I had with it, was that the drop line would get caught in the weedguard.  This almost never happens when fishing a jig alone.

And BTW - I hate c-rigs for the same reason.  Also, that rig takes a beating here with all the quagga and zebes, though there are workarounds.  Too much of a pain on TX day for me.

I'm fishing my first tourney sunday

Here's my take after getting back into the game after a 12 year hiatus.  Do not try anything new the first 3/4 of the day.  Fish your strengths.  If you have a very good bag by then and have been catching fish consistently, this counts 10X.  Now, if you are struggling to get that last fish, have a mediocre bag, or are doing terrible, throw whatever you can think of that might get bit.

Just this year I've seen crazy things, like a Sammy 128 tossed into seemingly weedless unproductive water with 5 minutes to fish on a clear blue windless afternoon cat the lunker bass.

Anyway, one of my points in there was that even if it does get bit, the retying after is going to eat up too much time.  And I really believe that if you're catching the hell out of them with this rig, then one or the other would probably catch the hell out of them just as well.

Good luck this Sunday, and keep your head on straight.  Get a good night's sleep the night before.  Its tough though - too exciting

[mase088]

Thanks a bunch for your input. Re-tying that would take up a lot of time, but like you said i probably would not try it unless i had a nice bag in the boat already and it was nearing the end of the day. To reduce time spent tying i normally fish everything but soft plastic with clips. unfortunately it would be one complex rig if i used clips with this!

Also thanks for the advice for the tourney. Its the AU bass clubs first of 4 qualifying tournaments  for everything that goes on in the spring, and everyone's worst event is dropped. The top 8 or 10 make it out of about 30 guys.

[Tin]

4bizz and I were discussing this last night. As he pointed out The issue is a hook-set. I use a Gammy split shot/drop-shot hook 1/0 that I just reel up on and don't jerk or anything (My smallie landing rate has really gone up a lot too). Now try just reeling up on a fish that has eaten a jig, you won't get too many fish in the boat. A fully exposed lightwire hook on a tube would work much better imo.

[J Francho]

My buddy and talked about that too. He basically said it would be a magnum rig: 30-50# braid, a flipping jig as a weight, and something big, like a Super Fluke on a 5/0 EWG hook. The hookset would be the same. Now I cannonball the mats and pads with a 1/2-3/4 oz. weight and a fluke, but I still say don't over complicate it with a jig. Ripping a bait through the weeds is hard enough - now add another bait and a fish (potentially a big one) and you've got trouble.

A fully exposed lightwire hook on a tube would work much better imo.

This is an interesting notion for smallies in Lake Ontario. I drag tubes, and I drop shot for smallies there in deep water quite a bit. Doing both at once is appealing to me, but I'm still not to keen on the knot on the DS hook with the tag running through, and a fish on the end of that tag.

Like I said, I've tried this variation, but not in every iteration possible. Perhaps there is a formula that works. Perhaps someone on BR has done it with CONSISTENT and DEFINITIVE results. What I mean is, that they caught more fish than if they fished this rig separately.

I'm not sure how anyone could quantify that though.

[J Francho]

BTW, another thread with some interesting DS tips: http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1222219185

[Glenn]

I've been fishing it this way using finesse jigs (1/8 - 1/4oz) for a LONG time now.  If it didn't work, I wouldn't be doing it anymore.

[islandbass]

I think that tactic would work great. However, I fish super snaggy rip rap about 85% of the time I drop shot. On some days, I can lose up to 15 DS weights (even 1/8 oz ones) in an hour's time.

So from an economic POV, it could be too costly a hit to the wallet to lose 15 or so jigs vs. 15 DS weights. I am seriously considering going to pencil lead for the rip rap. That is an even cheaper way to go especially when you have the pliers to flatten one end and pop a hole for the line.

[J Francho]

I've been fishing it this way using finesse jigs (1/8 - 1/4oz) for a LONG time now.  If it didn't work, I wouldn't be doing it anymore.

I know that it works, because I've tried it.  My question is, did you catch fish that would not have caught otherwise?

Thanks!

[snapper G]

I did a few times, once with a 1/2 oz. jig, and one with a 3/8 oz jig, I got more hits with the lighter jig. I like it, you should try, I got about 75% on the worm, and the other 25% on the jig!

(so it turns out other people have done this other than me)

[MNGeorge]

I don't know about other states, but here in MN, that rig would be illegal.  Might be worth checking your state's regulations.

[mase088]

what is illegal about it in MN? having two hooks?