TX Tourney Trails Need Change

[Catt]

You claim to be concerned with Choke Canyon Reservoir since you have been fishing it weekly for many years now. Are you involved with the Reservoir Controlling Authority, the City of Corpus Christi, Live Oak and McMullen Counties, Texas State Legislation, Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center (Sharelunker) or Texas Parks and Wildlife?

I'm involved with the Sabine River Authority of Texas/Louisiana Toledo Bend Division, Shelby, Sabine and Newton counties, Texas/Louisiana State Legislation, Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center (Sharelunker) & Texas/Louisiana Parks and Wildlife. I write up reports monthly for all agencies listed above plus others as well on water quality, Nuisance Aquatic Vegetation under the State Aquatic Vegetation Management Plan.

So if you truly want to help get involved

[SkeetyCCTX]

I do try to get involved, thats why I write my own articles and try to spread the news on conservation.  For someone who claims to be so involved, it sure does seem like you are against better conservation.  You are trying to jump my butt just for writting a post that supports better conservation efforts! 

As for the agencies that you listed, in my opinion some of them need some changes as well.  Sharelunker for instance!  Sure, their heart is in the right place, but the success rate of the program is just not there, and thats a fact.  It doesnt matter if the blame is on the anglers catching the fish, or the officials,  the main thing is that its just not working like it should.  Choke Canyon produced about 7 shareLunkers last year and every single one of those fish died!  If you ask me, we would have been better off if those fish were just left in our lake, they would be 20 lbs by theirsleves in a few yrs and would reproduce just fine for yrs to come.  Thanks, but no thanks!

Plus, the lakes that I fish, hardely get any help from the sharelunker program. Even if our fish survive to make it to Athens, its more likely that some DFW or other northern lake will get the hatchlings.  All the information is right there for you on the TPWD websites.  Our lakes barely even get stocked with natives much less anything else!  Why should I support programs that that dont help my neck of the woods, especially when i dont agree with their methods in the first place!

Yes, some lakes have gotten better over the last several decades, despite heavy pressure.  However, the lakes that you speak of all get an overwelmingly unequaled amount of help from "state" agencies!  TB get stocked every single year without fail, and gets more than its fair share of sharelunker hatchlings!  Do you know how many times Choke Canyon has been stocked in the last 10 yrs, maybee 3 times, and one of those was this past year, and only once with sharelunkers.

If sharelunker wants to continue, I think that they would be better off taking a year off and spreading the word to anglers on how to handle and care for a fish that big before the officials get there, that way the fish actually make it to Athens!  Then, build another facility, preferably closer to south TX, so that our fish dont die in the 5 hrs it takes officials to make it down here!  Just seems logical!

Look, it dont take a middle aged man, or senior citizen to be smart or know something about fishing and conservation!  I run operations on a business that does millions of dollars of revenue, and like conservation; alot of it is just common sense, self-evaluation, and constantly striving to get better.  I dont mean to burst your bubble, but there is a growning population of people that feal exactly the same way as I do!

Just because those are the organizations and policies that are in place, doesnt mean that I have to agree with or like them.  Especially when they do very little to help my home waters!  If you dont wont to improve than dont, just dont wonder why the fishing stinks in a couple of years.  Thats what is starting to happen on Choke Canyon!

[Catt]

So I take it from this recent post you are not involed with any of these agencies?

I find it strange you claim not to want to point fingers or get defensive but yet you continually do.

The success rate for the Share-A-Lunker program is heralded world wide and yet you bad mouth them.

You want more for Choke Canyon Reservoir? Get involved!

Toledo Bend gets stocked because we have numerous anglers who are involved other than writing "articles" on web sites.

A lack of planning on your behalf does not constitute a crisis on my behalf

[fishfordollars]

Well i sent this reply to David Campbell this morning.

Hopefully he will reply when he returns to his office. Let's see what he has to say about it.

[Matt Fly]

What trails and tournaments are the ones you speak of?

  Lets get all your facts out there.      

Bass Champs isn't a factor, team tournament with two live wells to use and they educate their anglers, plus give them live well additives before the tournament free.  Then of course, you don't have alot of options in south Texas.

    And live well crowding is only a issue on a handful of lakes that are individual tournaments that have co boaters and one well per each angler.

    Please, post the number of anglers and trails you speak of, its easy to post facts, you have tournaments and results because you fished them as you said.

Bass n Bucks, Champs, Media, BLT, and allot of others are TEAM trails with 5 fish in two live wells.   Not an issue.

Whats your facts for calling a lot of us NAIVE?

   Seems to me, until you post some fact on what TX Trails have issues, your just strirring the pot.

   

   

   

 

[Catt]

I suspected something was

Started by SkeetyCCTX on: May 28th, 2009 at 7:46pm

Introductions / New, from South Texas

Thought I live 15 minutes from lake Corpus Christi, I am constantly at Choke Canyon which is only about 45 minutes from my house. If you know anything about Choke, you cant blame me! We have already produced 7 fish over 15 lbs this year alone!

All that while Choke Canyon was in decline plus ShareLunker shows only shows 3 over 15 lbs for 09 & 4 total.

[fishfordollars]

I suspected something was

Started by SkeetyCCTX on: May 28th, 2009 at 7:46pm

Introductions / New, from South Texas

Thought I live 15 minutes from lake Corpus Christi, I am constantly at Choke Canyon which is only about 45 minutes from my house. If you know anything about Choke, you cant blame me! We have already produced 7 fish over 15 lbs this year alone!

All that while Choke Canyon was in decline plus ShareLunker shows only shows 3 over 15 lbs for 09 & 4 total.

That speaks volumes...

[SkeetyCCTX]

Ok, Im going to go ahead and end this because some of yall are getting way too worked up!  Im not trying to prove anybody wrong nor dismantle any organizations.

I was just giving my opinion on the state of tourny fishing in Texas and how it effects our fisheries.  If you dont agree than thats fine, but it is nothing to get ugly about or try to directly make someone look foolish!

I have not mentioned anyone by name or been rude to anyone.  I just have some displeasure with the way a few agencies run things, there is nothing wrong with that.  This is America, right!  We have amended are constitution numerous times and we still arent perfect, its nothing personal!

So, lets just end this conversation before things get out of hand, I dont want any problems!  If you dont want to work on getting better than dont, thats your right!  Its just "my opinion" that we can make things much better than they are now. which would make for better lakes!

I'm not going to dig up numbers or point anybody out, thats not what I was trying to do. 

BTW, I dont really understand the point of putting up a quote that I posted almost 1 year ago.  Was that to try and make me look bad?  IF so, than I clearly mentioned in it that Choke was already on the way down, even though it still was producing some good ones.  Unfortunately, Choke has come way down since then as well.  I fished a mini tourny with about 6 friends this saturday and it was still tough.  Nobody had a limmit but me, and that is just cause I fish choke way more than they do!

Yall have a good day and just relax and let it go.  IF you feel that there are no more improvements left to be made than fine!  Have a good one!

[roadwarrior]

I don't understand you guys calling the man out.

What's wrong with just making up stuff and pulling

numbers out of the air if it helps support your position?

:-?

[fishfordollars]

I don't understand you guys calling the man out.

What's wrong with just making up stuff and pulling

numbers out of the air if it helps support your position?

:-?

LMAO!

[SkeetyCCTX]

One more thing!  I dont pretend to have a bunch of data or reports.  I said from the beginning that "my opinion" is based primarily off of personal experience! 

I trust my own eyes, experiences, and common sense more than some report or numbers made up by someone I dont know.  Stats and such are very easy to manipulate and dont tell the whole story!

However, this is just the opinion of a South Texan!  Doesnt mean that Im right.  Like I said, if you are satisfied with the conservation efforts that our tournys and agencies have in place, and dont think they need to get better in any areas, than fine! 

Its nothing for us to be ugly to eachother about!  Have a good day!

[Grey Wolf]

This is like a bug taking on a flock of birds , not a chance in hell to win.

[Catt]

When you call out an organization like API, BassChamps, Bass-N-Bucks, BFL, Coleto Creek Invitational, Federation, or Sharelunker you are calling out people.

When you say the stats and facts are made up to manipulate or not tell the whole story, we know the person who wrote up those reports, stats, and facts because we are involved.

To you these organizations as mindless, faceless, emotionless entities but to us they are friends, relatives, and neighbors.

Again if you truly want to support our sport then you must start by getting involved at the city, county, and then state level; it's done the same with tournament trails.

Next support organizations that can help make our sport stronger

Bass Resource sponsors

Steve (Big-O) Parks inventor of Rage Tail & a Texan

Sure-Life Laboratories: Tony and Lane Gergely

Tony was also on the founding board of the Budweiser ShareLunker Program located at the Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center in Athens, TX. He is very proud of the genetic work that is being accomplished by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologists in Athens.The Gergelys are active members of the Coastal Conservation Association.

I hold nothing against you personally but all I see is talk backed by no action

[SkeetyCCTX]

Ok, so what you are saying is that I have to like and agree with 100% everything that these organizations do because they are what is in place!  You are saying that there is no need for them to make any sort of improvements whatsover, just because they have already made certain attempts at conservation.

Listen to what you are saying?  Guys, just because an organization is in place doesnt mean that it is doing the best possible job.  On that note, an organization or person that can not take constructive criticism from outsiders will never be as good as it can be!

Quit putting words into my mouth, I know that alot of people in these organizations care, I just think it is time to shake some things up and take some new steps to combat the every growing number of people in our sport.  There is nothing wrong with that!

Another thing, if you are going to be involved in a public organization that caters to the "public" than you need to be able to take outside criticism without getting all bent out of shape.  Those may be your friends or family or whatever, but my suggestions are in no way a personal insult to them as individuals.  When you run a big organization, you just have to understand that it comes with the territory!  Do you expect everyone to just shut up and totally except everything that they do?  That is arogance if you ask me!

I am a business man and I have to take criticism from customers all the time.  If I took it all personally than there is no way I could keep my cool or stay professional.  Its just business, not personal!  Then, if I didnt alter my service to fit their needs I would loose alot of good customers!  So, instead of getting offended, I make the small changes and keep everyone happy. 

I'll tell you right now, I fish several BassChamps (Choke Big Bass) events every year  and I have never had anyone from the organization instruct me or my partners on proper fish handleing, or givin out free surelife like mentioned in an above post!  Plus, this even takes place during the hottest time of year, making it hard to keep fish alive.

As for the Colleto Creek Invitational, I will be fishing that this weekend with my partner.  I will see for myself how good of a job they do with trying to ensure that every fish lives.  Now, every fish might not live but we can at least do everything we can to help their chances!

Now, this is just my opinion guys, its not gosple!  However, the state of many lakes really seems to correlate to what Im saying.  COleto for instance!  I cant understand how a warm water lake, in south tx, with plenty of food, cover, and everything else; has gone so down hill the past couple of years.  There is no reason that Coleto shouldnt be spitting out 30 lb sacks at tourny.  Right now, I would bet that the invitational is won with less than 20 lbs!  Id like my chances with 15 lbs with what Ive seen and heard lately!

Its just my opinion that the avg tourny angler cares way more about his/her own good time rather than protecting our main resources, the lake/bass!  Then, I feel that our organizations (we wont name any) are reluctant to make changes or take any steps to better things because they are scared that the anglers will go into an uproar. 

Yes, there probably will be some resistance and gripping at first.  But after a while everyone would get used to the new ways and I feel that the fishing would improve so much that theyd be having twice the fun!

However, this is just my opinion and nothing for anyone to get worked up over cause I am just one guy in the minority and cant change anything!. So, dont worry too much about it.  I realize that many of the organizations make conservation efforts and that is good.  I just think that there are a few things that can be done to get better.  Take it or leave it! 

[Glenn]

You make some valid points Skeety and if you go to many of the bigger Texas tournaments now you'll see that the rules regarding fish handling are ever changing for the better to try and remedy this big challenge.

Maybe not as fast as we (or the Fish) would like it but this seems to be a priority that is getting more and more attention nationwide.

Rome wasn't built in a day...but it did get built and that's our promise to the future of our great resource THE BASS

Maybe not in mine, but in your lifetime I think you will be proud of yours and everyone elses efforts that make friendly competition as safe as possible for the fish

Big O

www.ragetail.com

Big O said well earlier, and it's worth reading again.  It sounds like Skeety is pushing in this direction, so he shouldn't be faulted for it.

To that extent, I'm going to end this thread if it goes downhill even further.  Keep it civil guys.

[Matt Fly]

Well being from Texas, I'd like to know what tournament directors are still behind the 8 ball on fish care.

    I promise ya, a TD won't get another nickle from me as long as they have big issues.

    So why is it so hard to share what trails you speak of?

  When your water levels drop back down to 40-90 ft low again, are you gonna blame the tournies or mother nature for slow fishing like it was prior to the massive rains creating new lakes?      

    So whats your theory for poor fishing prior to big tournaments?     Can't say the tourney angler caused that in the 80-90;s now can ya?  Old lakes going dry was good thing, it allowed years on new cover to grow, finally rains came filled a new lake up.   

   How many times have you fished Fork to say tournaments have killed it?    

      

   

    

[SkeetyCCTX]

Matt, Matt, Matt; you like others just wont allow yourselves to see the big point I am trying to make! I have written and erased several replys to your comments because I am just tired of this! Either you want to be open minded or you dont. And thats fine either way, its your opinion!

There are so many factors that contribute to fisheries that we cant change, thats why I say that we should do are best to improve in the areas we can control! Thats all!

BTW, my father used to fish Fork in the 80's and said it was waaaaay better back then!  Also, if pressure doesnt do anything than why is everybody so pumped about the re-opening of Squaw Creek?

[Catt]

I want to see change but I refuse to get involved instead I'll sit on the sidelines & chunk rocks

[firefightn15]

Skeety, not to detract from your arguments, but I saw this coming from your first post.  I think your heart is in the right place but you posed your ideas wrongly, putting some on the defense rather than just asking for their thoughts first.

Catt, for instance, is known for great discussion on topics like this and I learn a lot just sitting back and reading these threads.  I don't doubt for a minute your personal experience and think you make valuable points but Catt has been around for a loooooooong time and imo has been an asset to many here through his experience and advice.

That said, the fact that you want people to be aware of your concerns shows your commitment to the sport also.  You obviously have the passion and want to make things better for the fish and fishing.  I just feel that if your original post had been more questioning than authoritative that this whole thread may have been more productive.

Keep up the initiative, guys like you and others involved in this thread are what makes things better for the fish and fishing. 8-)

[Matt Fly]

Skeety, not to detract from your arguments, but I saw this coming from your first post. I think your heart is in the right place but you posed your ideas wrongly, putting some on the defense rather than just asking for their thoughts first.

You obviously have the passion and want to make things better for the fish and fishing.

I didn't mean to appear defensive.  I love the outdoors as much as the next guy.

   I don't feel I have the need to defend Texas Tournament fishing.   Its some of the best in the country to begin with.  Texas being the key, I eluded to outside state organizations like BASS, but the topic is Texas.

     I honestly feel that T Directors that run the largest trails in Texas have made great strides in fish care since the an outside organization, BASS opened our eyes on Falcon.

   I don't see 5 fish in 2 seperate livewells as an issue if you have adequate livewells for team tournaments.

You have heard of the TFF, I'm sure you have since your a diehard tournament fishermen in Texas?

    Sure has been hush hush on Tourney directors and what trails and are kiling fish for awhile.    Trust me, 50,000 active members don't let news pass without posting it and pictures.

      I see way to many guys  letting fish go at the end of the day, a day of long fishing, and decided to let all them go at the ramp so they don't have to clean any.   Happens 7 days out of the week, 5 fish limit tournaments are mainly 1 day tournament.

   Its not just tournament fishermen that stress a bass out.   We fish 30 feet waters in the summer on warm lakes 7 days a week, not just during tournaments, deep hooking a fish isn't good then, even if she don't go in the live well, just quick release. 

     That alone  could easily cause delayed mortality with a livewell ride or without a livewell ride.

    Trot lines with live bait takes a few, preditors, tourney fishermen, and those looking for supper all contribute to fish mortality.

    

   I read what ya said.   You stated your opinion, I asked some questions to clearify a few things, you choose to leave those questions unanswered.

Your on point is not to hold tournaments in hot months, and that on the bigger TX trails has already been addressed by the biggest trail that goes south, Bass Champs.

    What licensed trails go south?   

   Why did Honey Hole fold in south Tx?    not enough boats for the long miles you have to cover for 3 lakes, Amistad, Falcon and Choke,    You don't have alot of good lakes south, its not like theres much choice of where to fish.

     Did you know, Zapata and Del Rio will make more money from Bass Champs than the BASS Elites coming back?

    Think about that!   What do you think of that theory?

      

[SkeetyCCTX]

Skeety, not to detract from your arguments, but I saw this coming from your first post. I think your heart is in the right place but you posed your ideas wrongly, putting some on the defense rather than just asking for their thoughts first.

Catt, for instance, is known for great discussion on topics like this and I learn a lot just sitting back and reading these threads. I don't doubt for a minute your personal experience and think you make valuable points but Catt has been around for a loooooooong time and imo has been an asset to many here through his experience and advice.

That said, the fact that you want people to be aware of your concerns shows your commitment to the sport also. You obviously have the passion and want to make things better for the fish and fishing. I just feel that if your original post had been more questioning than authoritative that this whole thread may have been more productive.

Keep up the initiative, guys like you and others involved in this thread are what makes things better for the fish and fishing. 8-)

This is a very reasonable comment to make, I have no problem accepting reasonable comments that arent personally offenseive.

This being said, alot of other post here seem to miss the point, and try to turn everything into a defensive contest with numbers, namecalling, and blame passing!

Ive clarified myself so much to individuals that I feel that there is no use doing so anymore!  Im not trying to get personal but its getting pretty aggrevating and Ill try one more time:

Catt, what do you want me to do?  The presidents of BassChamps, Sharelunker, and other large organizations are not going to step aside and let me take there spots.  Basically, all I can do is try and persuade my peers.  Its hard to not "sit on the bank and just chunk rocks" when you have no chance of being let in the water!

This being said, let me clarify again that I am not saying that these groups are not trying to take proper steps in conservation, and I am not saying that they are the worst or only factors involved!  All I am saying is that they should beef up a little more in the conservation area in order to combat the growing tourny craze!  Frankly, I find it very difficult to understand why you guys are so oppossed to making things better.

Matt, why cant you realize that I am not trying to call anyone out, or make anybodies trail, tourny, or organization look bad in particular.  I am not responding to your questions because thats not what Im about.  Im just trying to persuad "US" as a whole to get better!  One more time, I am not saying that Tourny fishing is the only or worst factor lakes have to deal with.  Yes, there are many other factors, some far worse!  What I am trying to drive home to you is that Tourny fishing is an element that "WE" can control, unlike a drought, and there are several simple things that we can do to make are presence less harsh to TX lakes.  I feel that we just need to increase our efforts due to the growth of the sport!  Thats it!

Just a re-cap of changes or steps or ideas that I would like to see, none of these would hurt anybody!

1.  Less summer time tournys on southern lakes

2.  More 3 fish events

3.  Periodic weigh-ins during events

4.  More consevation literature and training for anglers

5.  Spread out events to other lakes

Matt, just to let you know; most S. TX anglers saw BASS as the worst thing to ever happen to Falcon, and the elite serious was a disaster as far as fish kills are concerned.  Trust me, Zapata gets its money from a much more lucritive business than fishing!  Thats a dirty little secrete!  Why do you think that nobody ever has theft problems down there, " Theres too much money being made elsewhere?"

Believe me, I am pointing the finger at myself as well.  I am constantly trying to get better at taking better care of the bass that I catch, and our lakes.  I am just asking that you think about doing the same!  Trust me, we can do a whole lot better and it is arrogant to think that we are already doing enough!  We should not be satisfied till every tourny fish survives!

P.S.  Please notice that I keep using the words "We, Us, Our, etc.!"  I too am a tourny fisherman and am in no way trying to badmouth any event or organization.  We are all involved!

[Catt]

"Catt, what do you want me to do? The presidents of BassChamps, Sharelunker, and other large organizations are not going to step aside and let me take there spots. Basically, all I can do is try and persuade my peers. Its hard to not "sit on the bank and just chunk rocks" when you have no chance of being let in the water!"

Typical of today's youngsters, I either start at the top or I don't start at all

First you're not proposing anything any of us don't already know but secondly and most importantly you're not truly involved when all you do is sit back and chunk rocks.

In my personal opinion the state of Texas has set the gold standard for tournament fishing.

[cart7t]

Unless clear data showing a correlation between excessive fish kills/fish population/fish health problems can be drawn I think the use of that as an excuse to limit tournaments anywhere should be tossed out.  In fact, tournament bass fishing has done a pretty good job with it's "Don't kill your catch" philosophy instilled by Ray Scott and BASS lo these many years later though I do believe there is vast room for improvement in the area of holding tournaments in the summer months. 

That said.

Where I have an issue is in my state, Missouri, is at clogged, public boat ramps and public use areas paid for by tax dollars by ALL fishermen, not just tournament players.

Most of the major reservoirs in this state have at least one large 100+ boat tourney going on every weekend plus other smaller ones.  Tournament organizations are using publicly funded facilities for profit without paying for the right, along with having to make some concessions to other taxpaying boat owning fishermen who wish to use the facility but can't because of the inconvenience due to the TX's use of said facility.  IMO, petitioning a state's boating law enforcement facility and requesting that tournament organizations pay a users fee based on number of boats participating in the events.  The funds to go towards adding additional land for the creation of boat launching facilities to alleviate the crowding that occurs now due to the tournaments.

Lets face it.  Tournament fishing is merely a different form of legalized gambling with more skill involved than a typical game of chance.  Allowing a company to profit from the use of a public use facility that's paid for by tax payers without them compensating said taxpayers is wrong. 

[Catt]

I could have sworn the tournament organizations & it's members were tax payers

[SirSnookalot]

I could have sworn the tournament organizations & it's members were tax payers

If a non resident tournament angler purchased gas and other supplies in their home for use in a tournament in a state other than their own I don't know what tax they would be paying, unless a portion of the entry fee is taxed.  I would think in a state with no state income tax that funding comes from sales tax.  Winnings from a non income tax state would be free from tax, but a non resident would be liable to pay taxes to their home state if there was a state income tax.

I'm unsure of what tax the governing body ( organization) would pay other than the normal sales tax in procuring goods and services for use in the tournament.

Common sense and tax laws may not take the same path.