Tournaments during the spawn

[RichF]

Does anyone else find it pretty lame to see sooo many professional tournaments occur during the spawn. I fish tournaments in northern New York (season is closed during the spawn) in the summer when bass fishing, I believe, is toughest. I've caught plenty of fish during the spawn (obviously I never kept anything) and do not find it the least bit challenging. I'd like to see more pro tournaments happen well after the spawn when it takes a bit more skill to catch them. Am I alone in my thoughts?

[Grey Wolf]

I totally agree with you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RichF]

I'm glad someone agrees! It also drives me nuts when I hear commentators say "so & so is the one of the best sight fisherman on the circuit." I've sight fished spawning bass before...and guess what...I've caught them, it's not rocket science.

[Glenn]

Oh boy....here we go. It's that time of year again.  We get posts like this every single year, ranging from "is it ethical" to "does it destroy a fishery" to "it should be outlawed".

Please do a search if these topics interest you.  It's not that I want to squash these conversations, but the fact is, they've been hashed and re-hashed countless times here before.  So there's a lot of info available to you already. Click the "search" tab above, and set the date range longer than a year. You'll get plenty of reading material.  8-)

Enjoy!

[RichF]

This post isn't about ethics or population effects. I just wanted to know if I'm the only angler out there who thinks the pro circuits should broaden their horizons and fish these high stakes tournaments when fishing is at its toughest. It just bugs me when you hear people boast about a pro's sight fishing ability or their overall fishing prowess when it seems the majority of these tournaments occur around the spawn, when catching bass is relatively easy. I wasn't trying to start an ethical debate, so I apologize for that.

[fishfordollars]

Lock and load...

[Glenn]

How would you classify the conditions at this year's Classic?  Last years?  Before that?  What about at 3-rivers?  How about the FLW championships?

Maybe I'm missing the point.  :-/

I guess I'm a little tripped up with this:

It seems the majority of these tournaments occur around the spawn

.

I'm not trying to argue or start something, but I've been covering tournaments for 14 years now, and they seem to happen almost year 'round.  The spawn occurs during one, maybe 2 tournaments in any given circuit.  I suppose that's going to happen when the tournament season spans 3 of 4 seasons, including spring.  So I'm a little confused.

[Tin]

If you find fishing so easy from ice-out to post spawn you should be on tour. Especially in New York, I have been apart of some brutal post-spawn tournies up there. Would you also propose not fishing Florida 9 months out of the year? ;D

If these spawn tourniies had such an impact you would see more states have a bass season. Heck, if they can ban lead in Mass and NH because "the loons", I think spawn fishing would have been banned before that ruling if it had such an impact.

[fishfordollars]

Evidently you have never set over a bed for an hour trying to figure out what it takes to make it bite. It ain't the crap shoot you think it is. Our fishing is better now than it's been in years.

I fish the spawn tournaments when they come up. Personally I prefer to fish the staging fish. I suck at sight fishing anyway.

FYI, a lot of those so called prefish everyone is catching out in 5-8' of water are actually on the bed and they don't realize it..

[Tin]

FYI, a lot of those so called prefish everyone is catching out in 5-8' of water are actually on the bed and they don't realize it..

Those are the ones to look for, less pressured and usually bigger.  8-)

[RichF]

I'm not saying that fishing the spawn hurts the population and should be banned in tournaments. I understand that down south the growing season is all year long and bass are far more plentiful. When I look at the elite schedule this year, I see the first four tournaments revolving around the spawn. Thats half the season. I understand that there aren't an unlimited amount of days in the year to fish these events so there are gonna be tournaments during the spawn.

[Flukeman]

ESPN is running tournaments to attract and audience. In their minds doing that takes big fish, greatest numbers of big fish are caught around the spawn. They are not trying to get guys like you and me, were already hooked, it's the fringe fans they try to get.

I liked the shows they had years ago when they were much more technical in nature and more widely spread through out the season. I did not care what size the fish were. But I guess big fish are like crashes in NASCAR, it draws a bigger crowd.

[oteymc]

When the commentators say "he is one of the best sight fishing guys on the tour" are they referring only to fishing the spawn?

It does make sense to me that the higher echelon of tournaments should sometimes be in places and times when the bite is tough.

I think the best scenario would be to cover a wide variety of places and times, then your champion would be someone who could catch bass in any circumstance (but I thought that is what they already tried for).

That being said, I also think it is OK to have a tournament during the spawn, just like it is fun to watch a baseball game in a hitters ball park, or a golf tournament where the pros can birdie every hole. But it would get old if it were that way every time.

Just my opinion.

[RichF]

Evidently you have never set over a bed for an hour trying to figure out what it takes to make it bite. It ain't the crap shoot you think it is. Our fishing is better now than it's been in years.

I fish the spawn tournaments when they come up. Personally I prefer to fish the staging fish. I suck at sight fishing anyway.

FYI, a lot of those so called prefish everyone is catching out in 5-8' of water are actually on the bed and they don't realize it..

I would never waste that kind of time on one fish, especially on a tournament.

[RichF]

ESPN is running tournaments to attract and audience. In their minds doing that takes big fish, greatest numbers of big fish are caught around the spawn. They are not trying to get guys like you and me, were already hooked, it's the fringe fans they try to get.

I liked the shows they had years ago when they were much more technical in nature and more widely spread through out the season. I did not care what size the fish were. But I guess big fish are like crashes in NASCAR, it draws a bigger crowd.

I am in absolute agreement with you on that.

[fishfordollars]

Evidently you have never set over a bed for an hour trying to figure out what it takes to make it bite. It ain't the crap shoot you think it is. Our fishing is better now than it's been in years.

I fish the spawn tournaments when they come up. Personally I prefer to fish the staging fish. I suck at sight fishing anyway.

FYI, a lot of those so called prefish everyone is catching out in 5-8' of water are actually on the bed and they don't realize it..

I would never waste that kind of time on one fish, especially on a tournament.

Yes you would if you could see the size of several I have set over. One fish can make or break you. When you find DD fish you will spend extra time trying to put it in the boat. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

[SkeetyCCTX]

Well the problem is the greed of human nature.  Everyone wants to see those giant 30 lb plus sacks, so we jepordize reproduction!  The tourny scene has a big problem with putting "our" selfish needs above the resources.  The irony is that these attitudes and actions will make bass fishing tough in the long run!

That being said, I do not necessarily have a problem with tournys during the spawn.  What I have a problem with is that all of the tournys come to the same couple of lakes and things are not spread out, at least thats how things are in TX.  One tourny on a lake during the spawn isnt going to hurt much, but when you hold a tourny every week on the same lake during the spawn that creats a problem.

In texas the burden of Tourny fishing is not equally shared.  The same lakes get pounded week in and out.  Unfortanatly, these are our most promising and best lakes.  However, if we would start to spread out, I think that new lakes would be found!

[Catt]

There is no data supporting catching bass during the spawn hurts the body of water

[Copen1822]

There is no data supporting catching bass during the spawn hurts the body of water

X2.

High water temps are a much bigger factor and it's even difficult to find a statistically significant correlation with that.

[Taylor Fishin 4 life]

I think fishing the spawn it is plain fun. And so what if the pros fish it they fish very hard conditions too.

[SkeetyCCTX]

There is no data supporting catching bass during the spawn hurts the body of water

First off, I totally love bass fishing just before, during, and after the spawn.  There is no way that I miss the spawn on my home lakes of Choke Canyon.  In no way do I think that they should outlaw tournys during this time.

That being said, lets be realistic and use some common sense!  I dont care if there is no data or not, when you pull bass off of their beds it is going to have some sort of negitive effect on their natural spawning practice.   However, without even trying to look for it, I read a recent article in a major bass mag that gave very good data on the effects of Smallmouth being away from their beds on lakes that have Gobbys!

In a recent bass mag I read an article that on Northern lakes "gobbys" will eat like 300 eggs for every 8 secs that a smallie is away from its bed due to being caught!  I cant say that those are the exact numbers but it was pretty astonishing!

Its just common sense, if a fisherman pulls a bass off its bed, the bed goes unprotected and predators come in.  Likewise, if an angler catches a female before it drops its eggs, and the fish dies because of the ordeal, then that has a negative effect on the lakes overall reproduction.

Now, Im just calling a spade a spade!  I totally love bedfishing and fishing during the spawn in general.  However, you can't sit there and imply that it does not have an impact on the fish!  Is the impact worse than other negitive influences, no!  But that does not change the fact that it does impact them!

A couple of tournys during the spawn are not going to destroy a lake.  However, when you throw a 150 boat tourny every week on a lake during the spring, coupled with a drought or some other negitve factor, than you are going to see a signifigant decline in fishing.  Its just numbers!

[Catt]

Most people think that once the female leaves the bed, only the male is left. It is true that the female only guards the nest for a short time before moving away, but other females will come to that nest.

Ken Cook, a former Oklahoma fisheries biologist

Clarence Bowling Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologist

[Glenn]

SkeetyCCTX - There's been many studies done regarding tournament fishing during the spawn.  A lot of those studies were done to "prove" how detrimental bed fishing is to a fishery.  However, none of those studies proved that theory.  In fact, they did just the opposite.  They showed there's no detrimental effects of bed fishing during tournaments.

Now, before you go off with your emotiones, know this:  yes, it's true a bed could be decimated by predators if a guarding bass is pulled off a bed. Nobody is arguing that.  It can and does happen.

That said, nature has a way of taking care of itself.  Under normal circumstances (no interference by man), an overwhelming majority of eggs and fry are consumed before ever reaching fingerling status - the numbers are staggering.  This is due, in part, because the purpose of these eggs and fry are to feed the predators.  If all the eggs made it to maturity, the whole ecosystem would turn on its head.

In response to this, nature designs the spawn to overcome those odds by having the bass create massive numbers of eggs/fry. Massive.  Not only that, but the spawn is spread out over the course of weeks and months.  This is nature's way of ensuring enough fry survive to keep the bass population going.

So, when it comes to tournament fishing during the spawn, nature has greatly stacked the odds in her favor such that anglers simply can't decimate a fishery from pulling bass off beds - unless they do it every day for every bed over the course of months.

This is why those studies showed that there's no detrimental effects, and is why anglers are allowed to fish during the spawn.

As for states that close the fishery during the spawn, that is enacted by politicians and not biologists.

For furthr information this topic, please see: http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-videos/bass-fishing-fish-biology.html 

[RichF]

I didn't mean for this to turn into that kind of argument! This topic was not intended to start a discussion  about the effects of tournament fishing on the spawn. I know you warned me Glenn...sorry about that.

[SkeetyCCTX]

SkeetyCCTX - There's been many studies done regarding tournament fishing during the spawn. A lot of those studies were done to "prove" how detrimental bed fishing is to a fishery. However, none of those studies proved that theory. In fact, they did just the opposite. They showed there's no detrimental effects of bed fishing during tournaments.

Now, before you go off with your emotiones, know this: yes, it's true a bed could be decimated by predators if a guarding bass is pulled off a bed. Nobody is arguing that. It can and does happen.

That said, nature has a way of taking care of itself. Under normal circumstances (no interference by man), an overwhelming majority of eggs and fry are consumed before ever reaching fingerling status - the numbers are staggering. This is due, in part, because the purpose of these eggs and fry are to feed the predators. If all the eggs made it to maturity, the whole ecosystem would turn on its head.

In response to this, nature designs the spawn to overcome those odds by having the bass create massive numbers of eggs/fry. Massive. Not only that, but the spawn is spread out over the course of weeks and months. This is nature's way of ensuring enough fry survive to keep the bass population going.

So, when it comes to tournament fishing during the spawn, nature has greatly stacked the odds in her favor such that anglers simply can't decimate a fishery from pulling bass off beds - unless they do it every day for every bed over the course of months.

This is why those studies showed that there's no detrimental effects, and is why anglers are allowed to fish during the spawn.

As for states that close the fishery during the spawn, that is enacted by politicians and not biologists.

For furthr information this topic, please see: http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-videos/bass-fishing-fish-biology.html

 

First off, Im not getting emotional at all, just purely giving my point.  Im all for bed fishing and fishing during the spawn.   Im just not going to fool myself by saying that it has no negitive effects on bass reproduction.  We are an unatural predator and are presence always has an un-intended effect on all wildlife!

You say there are no studies showing a negitve impact, well I personally read an article out of a major bass mag this winter stating that Gobby eat hundreds of eggs for every 8 secs a smallie is pulled off a bed!  You have to keep in mind the intentions of the person doing the studdy, and what they are trying to prove.

Like you said, a large number of eggs are lost each year under "natural" circumstances, and bass have evolved to produce lots of eggs to make up for this.  But your statement doesnt mesh with your point.  Humans are not a natural presence and nature did not intend for us to go around pulling bass off beds during the spawn.  Bass do not make extra eggs to allow for the human factor, only natural predation.

This being said, I do not believe that fishing during the spawn is devastating to bass reproduction.  However, to say that it does not have an effect is completly blind!  Anytime, you introduce humans into a natural setting there is an effect, especially when we are interupting a reproductive process!

Thankfully, there are a good population of fisherman out there that act responsibly after catching bed/pre-spawn fish and get them back as soon as posible.  Thankfully, bass do lay so many eggs and that the spawn is spread out!

BTW, this isnt anything personal!  Im just stating my opinion and mean no personal disprespect or insult to anyone.  Likewise, I do not take any offense as long as arguments are on topic and not personal.  Once again, I am 100% for fishing during the spawn, but I am not blind to the effects, thats why I take certain steps to give back and practice good conservation!