Solutions To Fish Mortality In Tournaments

[roadwarrior]

Some combination of the following:

1. Paper tournaments only, by length not weight.

2. Weigh-in (release) sites located around the lake with mandatory weighing everytime those sites are passed by participants.

3. Oxygen injected live wells.

4. Forbid C-rig technique in tournaments.

5. Reduced bag limits for specific lakes or conditions (hot weather).

6. Require a boat for holding and releasing bass away from shore.

More ideas?

[fishfordollars]

Stagered Weighin

Live well additive mandotory

Shorter hours

Required to leave livewell pumps running during all tournament hours

3 fish limit

No cull rule(If it goes in it stays in)

[Shad_Master]

Just curious - how would outlawing C-rig help with fish mortality rate?  There have been numerous posts on this site about dealing with gut hooked fish and they all seem to suggest that the fish will be alright - this is what I have observed and have always thought.  RW, can you elaborate?

[roadwarrior]

In the Falcon thread it was mentioned that Carolina rigging often results in deep gut hooks which tends to increase mortality. Although deeply imbedded hooks can usually be recovered, that is not always the case. It might be implied that some tournament fisherman are not willing to take the required time and care to successfully address the problem. Obviously, at this last B.A.S.S. event, caring for bass was not a high priority or was terribly neglected.

[jbasscus]

RW, Whats the best thing to as far as gut hooked fish?  I've been told the best thing to do is cut the line and the hook will come out eventually.  That doesn't sound right to me???????

[roadwarrior]

RW, Whats the best thing to as far as gut hooked fish? I've been told the best thing to do is cut the line and the hook will come out eventually. That doesn't sound right to me???????

http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/articles/if2806_HookRemoval/index.html

8-)

[jbasscus]

Thanks  RW

[WRB]

There should be no issue fishing any artifical lure presentation. Gut hooking bass by professional fisherman is very rare. Yes, the statement was made, however ill stated IMO. The C-rigs used in the Falcon event had big over size soft plastic that even a big bass can't swallow down it's gullet that quickly.

1. You will never achieve 100% survival rates, the goal should be to keep the rate as low as possible. A bass can engulf any lure at any time and damage their gills and that can be fatal.

2. All professional bass tournaments, where money is awarded, should have oxygenator type DO generators with DO level monitors biult in the livewells. The livewells should also have water temperature controlled circulation systems, when the surface water exceeds 75 degrees. One large livewell with a removable partican should be used, not two smaller separate units.

3. Live boats with large 1,500 gallon holding tanks should be on site at every event. Anglers can call the live boat for a pick up, the pro's call if they determine they have a big bass to pick up. Tamper proof tag the bass with the pro's number for TV weighins.

4. Make the over stressed bass or dead bass penalty severe; 2 lbs or twice the weight of the dead or dieng bass. Kill a bass over 10 lbs and you loose the days total catch weight. If a live boat is available, it

should be a no brainer to call for a pick.

5. Paper tournaments should not be determined by bass length, the girth also needs to be included. Use the formula; L X L X G /1200 = weight, is as accurate as the measurement validated.

Just a note; I have caught hundreds of big bass over the years, several 50+ 5 bass limits. I do not use a livewell to hold my bass while fishing. I made up a 10 foot stringer from 300 lb marlin mono leader that has 2 stainlees steel safety lock clips, a stopper to keep the clips from sliding up the mono and a 1 pound sinker on the end. Where I fish we don't have gators to eat something hanging over the side of the boat, so that is not an issue. I simply clip on a big bass and lower over the side, then put it into the live well when moving. I have 2 stringers and can keep 4 big bass in the lake water while fishing for the 5th bass. Load them up into the livewell for short few minute ride back to the marina, if I want to have the weighed. Most of the time I release a big bass right away before leaving the area caught. If the pro's at Falcon had this type of stringer, it would have saved the day for them.

WRB

[Gatorbassman]

1. Boats need to have insulated livewells with separate recalculating and aeration pumps. They also need a removable separator.

2. Educate anglers and tournament officials on the proper care of fish in livewell. Including the use of Catch and Release or Please Release Me additives. (Extensive studies have shown that if these products are used the right way, 97% of the fish are still alive one month after the tournament.)

3. Use of a specially designed holding tank where the fish can be cared for and monitored before release. (i.e. The tank that Bass Champs uses.)

[flechero]

4. Forbid C-rig technique in tournaments.

This one baffles me.  Not that you suggested it, but that it happens so regularly.  Am I a freak or just the luckiest guy on earth that I rarely hook a fish deep with a c-rig?  Maybe I fish it too fast... or maybe I don't lose contact for more than a couple seconds.

[fishfordollars]

There should be no issue fishing any artifical lure presentation. Gut hooking bass by professional fisherman is very rare. Yes, the statement was made, however ill stated IMO. The C-rigs used in the Falcon event had big over size soft plastic that even a big bass can't swallow down it's gullet that quickly.

1. You will never achieve 100% survival rates, the goal should be to keep the rate as low as possible. A bass can engulf any lure at any time and damage their gills and that can be fatal.

2. All professional bass tournaments, where money is awarded, should have oxygenator type DO generators with DO level monitors biult in the livewells. The livewells should also have water temperature controlled circulation systems, when the surface water exceeds 75 degrees. One large livewell with a removable partican should be used, not two smaller separate units.

3. Live boats with large 1,500 gallon holding tanks should be on site at every event. Anglers can call the live boat for a pick up, the pro's call if they determine they have a big bass to pick up. Tamper proof tag the bass with the pro's number for TV weighins.

4. Make the over stressed bass or dead bass penalty severe; 2 lbs or twice the weight of the dead or dieng bass. Kill a bass over 10 lbs and you loose the days total catch weight. If a live boat is available, it

should be a no brainer to call for a pick.

5. Paper tournaments should not be determined by bass length, the girth also needs to be included. Use the formula; L X L X G /1200 = weight, is as accurate as the measurement validated.

Just a note; I have caught hundreds of big bass over the years, several 50+ 5 bass limits. I do not use a livewell to hold my bass while fishing. I made up a 10 foot stringer from 300 lb marlin mono leader that has 2 stainlees steel safety lock clips, a stopper to keep the clips from sliding up the mono and a 1 pound sinker on the end. Where I fish we don't have gators to eat something hanging over the side of the boat, so that is not an issue. I simply clip on a big bass and lower over the side, then put it into the live well when moving. I have 2 stringers and can keep 4 big bass in the lake water while fishing for the 5th bass. Load them up into the livewell for short few minute ride back to the marina, if I want to have the weighed. Most of the time I release a big bass right away before leaving the area caught. If the pro's at Falcon had this type of stringer, it would have saved the day for them.

WRB

I am still trying to digest the "Several 50+ 5 bass limits". Mine telling us what part of the country you are in? Sorry, did not intend to hijack this thread.

[Gatorbassman]

4. Forbid C-rig technique in tournaments.

This one baffles me. Not that you suggested it, but that it happens so regularly. Am I a freak or just the luckiest guy on earth that I rarely hook a fish deep with a c-rig? Maybe I fish it too fast... or maybe I don't lose contact for more than a couple seconds.

I don't remember the last time I gut hooked a fish with a C-rig either.

[FD.]

I live in Fl where 90*+ water temps are prevalent from July until September.  I take two 32 oz gatorade bottles and freeze them.  I don't fill my live wells in the marina.  At my first spot I take a few minutes to half fill the live wells, add the frozen bottles, and turn on the recirculate.  At only half full the water splashes at lot adding o2 and the ice causes temp inside the box drops to the 70's.  When adding fish I add more water.  This was a formula encouraged by my local Bassmaster Chapter.

I don't know the chemistry behind this but I lost ZERO fish last year.

[Big-O]

Agree with you RW and maybe this:

Maybe we need to have a hands free certified scale weighing system on board each tournament boat that not only records weight but also snaps a digital photo of each fish on scale and with visual chart behind or under fish recording length girth etc. Is this expensive, yes at first it would be until the technology catches on to it and they would become much cheaper. Let's face it, catch the fish, weigh it and release it back to it's natural habitat is not only the safest for the fish but also maintains the fishery at its highest level. It does away with the need to work out the livewell systems being too small at some lakes for two anglers, and constantly abusing the fish by cking one fish against the other for culling rights not to mention the slamming they take all day in the boat and then getting dumped back in the water in a strange place they have never been before. Scared to death and in a state of physical and mental shock and now in a foriegn place, "Boy that sounds like a something the fish deserves for hitting our bait! The scale would record all of your fish and list your top five as needed. There you go guy's, you want an idea to run with, it's your's for the taking. Now do ya think there will be those who will try to get around the system and cheat? Only the @%*$_*& will. But if there are two in boat and detector test for winners "Wallah". Lot of whiners out there that would rather gripe about this type of program than respect our favorite natural resource's at their highest level.

BTW, if we're gonna carolina rig no matter what, then let's use a big enough hook that if the fish has it in their gut when we land them, we can go into their gut and pull it out. Carry the long neck pinchers with you so you can at least give these valuable fish some % opportunity to live. Facts are in, and the majority of all fish in fresh water that have a hook left in there gut or throat die's from it. Many try to say that the acid in a bass' stomach will dissolve it in no time. This is not true and has been proven otherwise. Let's give them a chance, after all,they gave us one.

[Brian_Reeves]

I actually have a bigger problem with jigs and texas rigs than I do C-Rigs when it comes to gut hooking fish.  Not sure what that's all about, but after fishing a carolina rig for a decade, I can't recall one time that I deep hooked a fish :-?

[Big-O]

Could be because you stay in touch with your bait better than most folks. Other causes are extremely small hooks and baits as well as longer leaders that give the fish an opportunity to pick up and swallow prior to the angler feeling the fish. Extremely heavy weights is another culprit.

If the fish is not in the trailing position, the hit is not as noticeable when the fish picks up bait from front or side angles.

www.ragetail.com

[Lane]

Lack of experience with C-rigging by co-anglers contributed to dead

fish being weighed in. The PROFESSIONAL anglers are experienced

at this technique, so mortality due to C-rigging is really not a factor

with them.

A couple of the pros told me that co-anglers asked for baits (the pros baits) along with assistance. The pros are out there on tournament day

trying to make a living. They have enough to deal with! I hear this all

of the time from pros. Read my other post in the other thread dealing

with fish mortality.

[Big-O]

Thanks Lane, You guys are an invaluable resource to this growing yet troubled industry. Now if we could just get the word out.

Thanks for all you do

Steve Parks

www.ragetail.com

[lknbassman]

On water scales in different parts of the lake sounds like a great idea and seems easy enough to do with a final adding up of the weights at the launch site.  Takes the drama out of a big bag coming to the scales but preserves the resource and it'd be kind of like a lotto drawing drama wise anyway with the weights being called out.  Could be fun???

C rigging, I don't even know where to begin with this one.  It may be a technique thing or a big bass thing since they don't usually hit a bait as hard as smaller fish do and instead inhale them which can lead to deep hooking for certain.  It happens to me with wacky rigged senkos now and again too.  When it does I use long hook cutters to cut the barb off and slide the shank back out with long nosed needle nose pliers without injuring the fish as best I can when that happens and have had success with it from what I can tell as the fish seem lively and not really banged up from the process.  Don't know what else to do???

Hot water in livewells does the most damage I'd suspect which is why the on water scales seems to make alot of sense to me.

[cart7t]

Charger bass boats has a unique livewell system where LW water is circulated through copper tubes down in a cooler and repumped back in.  The idea is to fill the cooler section with ice.  This works pretty good I'm told when lake waters are warm.  I don't think this would've had any effect at Falcon where apparently the fish were so large they were essentially being overcrowded in the livewells.  

I'd suggest a boat side paper weigh-in like they do with saltwater though that sorta ruins the show aspect of a weigh in.  I don't really have an answer.

[Tin]

I'm not in favor of it in tourney's but it would sure work. If you are fishing on an smallmouth factory like Onidea or Erie and you are using a stickbait or drop-shot rig you must use a circle hook.

If I'm using one of those two and fishing a smallie lake, as soon as you feel the fish it is usually to late and down too deep.

[GobbleDog]

Is bass mortality really that big of a problem?  I'd guesstimate that in my 20 boat club, less than 5% of all the bass that were weighed-in last year were dead.   I don't think that's nearly enough to justify any stringent new rules.

[roadwarrior]

Is bass mortality really that big of a problem? I'd guesstimate that in my 20 boat club, less than 5% of all the bass that were weighed-in last year were dead. I don't think that's nearly enough to justify any stringent new rules.

If it's a "general" problem it should be addressed "generally".

If it's a "specific" problem it should be addressed "specifically".

In this case, the fish kill was a B.A.S.S./ ESPN problem which they failed to address at all! Additionally, they walked away from the clean-up. So, regardless of "who's to blame", solutions must be implemented in order to prevent future losses.

[GobbleDog]

If it's a "general" problem it should be addressed "generally".

If it's a "specific" problem it should be addressed "specifically".

In this case, the fish kill was a B.A.S.S./ ESPN problem which they failed to address at all! Additionally, they walked away from the clean-up. So, regardless of "who's to blame", solutions must be implemented in order to prevent future losses.

It's good for BASS's image to keep the kills low, agreed.  Bass-population wise, I doubt it generally has much effect.  

[roadwarrior]

Well now, here's the story as I have heard it told.

Back when Ray Scott started B.A.S.S. the tournaments had a 10 bass limit and all the fish were kept, killed and eaten! Scott, so the story goes, noticed a significant decline in numbers caught and lower weight "big bass" over a period of years due to excessive harvest by tournament fishermen. Now, as a savy marketing genius, Ray Scott may have also perceived some negative reaction by the general public seeing all those dead fish, too. The point is, Mr. Scott conceived and introduced "Catch & Release" as we know it today.

So, killing 500 (?) big bass might impact Falcon Lake. With all the lesser tournaments around the country and throughout the year, this may result in thousands of fish unintentionally lost annually. As the title of this thread implies, I just want us all to think about solutions, not excuses for the problem.

8-)