The death of sportsmanship??? ( not too long)

[RobDar]

I just got an email from one of the guys in my tournament division who had an upsetting run in with a few other guys from another division at Bass Pro.

I do not understand some of the chest beaters in this sport. The more tourney fisherman I meet the fewer of them I like or can tolerate. Our club covers every skill level...we have some newbies all the way up to guys who fish the FLW and BassMasters. What I do not understand is some of these guys need to stroke their own ego's and to harrass guys who have less experience than they. ( they told this kid to come back in 10 years when he had enough skill to actually compete..they are lucky they do not fish my division and their division director has already been left a voice mail)

...and it seems to me that the more popular the "sport" gets the more guys who do not belong in it there are. If some of these guys are not harrrassing other because they do not have a big shiny boat...they are harrassing them for some other reason. ( I got teased about my boat at our year end tourney...but I just giggle when I drive on by the gas station that they have stopped at 8 times)

I feel like I am witnessing my apprenticeship again. I had a real hard time being an apprentice. The journeyman who went out of their way to harrass and pester the apprentices really got under my skin. I took it cause I had to, but i had ALL KINDS of trouble when I was a done and would not allow other guys to pick on the apprentices. Apprentice or not they are people...skilled fisherman or not...they are people who deserve respect.

I actually have more respect for the young guy who goes out and tries every tourney and keeps coming back, wanting to learn, wanting to improve. I have a boat load more respect for him/her than I do the guy who only shows up when he knows he has the tourney all locked up.

The longer I am in this the more common this ego stroking seems to get. How insecure do you need to be to brow beat an newbie? or pick on someone cause you have a nicer boat?

Is sportsmanship dying?

[Catt]

I only tournament fish open tournaments for this very reason; it's also the reason I love showing up with a Jon boat, so I can see the shock in their eye as I walk away with their money.

[Guest avid]

Is sportsmanship dying?

NO.

But you are confusing tournament bass fishing with sport bass fishing.

The minute you enter a tournament you are gambling.

You ante up your entry fee and expenses and bet that you will BEAT others for the payout.

This is not sport fishing.  This is business.

To many it is very serious business.

It would be nice to say that these guys are just "hazing" newbies, but that is not the case.

They are trying to intimidate and deflate their competitors so they can gain  an advantage, while pumping themselves up for the big event.

It's a comptetition, not a sport (look it up)  

[senile1]

Is sportsmanship dying?

NO.

But you are confusing tournament bass fishing with sport bass fishing.

The minute you enter a tournament you are gambling.

You ante up your entry fee and expenses and bet that you will BEAT others for the payout.

This is not sport fishing.  This is business.

To many it is very serious business.

It would be nice to say that these guys are just "hazing" newbies, but that is not the case.

They are trying to intimidate and deflate their competitors so they can gain  an advantage, while pumping themselves up for the big event.

It's a comptetition, not a sport (look it up)  

Ignoring semantics for a moment, there was a time when sportsmanship was practiced by the vast majority who participated in competitive sports.  There was a lot less money on the line at that time.  The love of money does corrupt the morals of many people, unfortunately.  

[dave]

I would certainly not broad brush all tournament fisherman but, I have alway heard more negative comments regarding them then positive. I've known a few guides who stopped tournament fishing because of some of the things Avid talked about. They would rather guide customers that just want to enjoy themselves fishing and learning. They have all said that once your money is on the line IT IS A DIFFERENT GAME. Some stop enjoying the sport at that stage. I have been on the receiving end in my own boat and with friends of smirks and "under the breath" comments (two of us at over 500lbs combined keep them "under the breath" and not completely out loud) about our boats from the fancy boat guys. We are not tournament fisherman just weekenders. Some grown men act like children no matter how old they are.

[Matt Fly]

What I would love to see happen on local trails.     Local trails as not Professional, mostly the weekend warriors, like myself.

Everybody wants to win big money for as small of an entry as you can.

As my area is saturated with trails, and very competive sticks, which makes for some tight lips when the same lakes are seeing tournament after tournament held on them all year.

I always say too much, because I want the new guys, maybe new to the state, area, or that lake, I want them to come back and fish again.      I always offer up some pointers, after all, if the "new blood" gets discouraged, they are less likely to want to come back.

More teams means more payout.     The only way to promote big turn outs is to help some of the new guys, and that just isn't gonna happen with all the same guys competing on the same waters every year.

I sure don't like the black eye that tourney anglers get, but for the most part, they feel that young fellows or new guys needs to earn his own keep, he puts his pants on the same way as you and me.

So, if you ever see me at a tourney, ask, I'll try to help anyone out.    

Competion when coupled with money to be won causes the human brain to do some stuupid stuff.

Filming the opponents signals,    Taking illegal performance enhancing drugs, offering pay to NCCA players, Cheating in Nascar, doping in Cycling, and a Guy staking fish out in a BASS tournament.

Yep, money is the root of most evil.....   better to learn that lesson now.

Matt

[jwo1124]

I think dave said it best. Once money is on the line, people's attitudes change drastically. Espicially if we are talking thousands of dollars. My local bait and tackle holds derbys on the local lakes where the grand prize is around a hundred dollars. This is a nice prize to catch the biggest fish on a relaxing day out. I highly doubt people will take this serious enough to get all primal and jacked up about. But once there is big money on the line, some people will do what ever it takes to win. look at Tony Romanowski, the former NFL linebacker. He admitted to steroid use just to stretch a couple more years in the NFl, translating into millions of dollars. Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire all took roids to help them in their sports. Rodney Harrison got caught taking Growth Hormone. All this translates into getting every advantage you can to win, even if it means going to extremes that are frowned upon. I wouldn't say sportsmanship is dead pursay, but certainly good sportsmanship is going by the way side more and more.

For those who like to fish, stick to "sportfishing", trying to catch more fish and bigger fish to break state and/or world records. For those that love competition(the good and bad that comes with it) and are good at fishing, by all means try your hand at tournament fishing. some people crave competition, they like proving themselves better than others and superior, it seems sick, but it's only natural, alittle primal, but still natural. Other don't feel the need to prove themselve better than others, they just want to be the best that they can be.

You can typically tell which type of person someone is by bringing up a good accomplishment or attribute it yourself. If one responds with praise than most likely they are a good guy. But if someone automatically tries to one up you, than chances are they are a pr!ck.

[bassnleo]

It's a shame that things are that way in your area. Many in this area can be tight lipped but that's mostly with guys who fish team or open trails. Our club trails here are very educational, yet still competetive. Our club is very open about skills, techniques etc..and it makes it fun to fish the club events. I and others in this club have often run into another member on the water during a tournament, given them baits, told them how we are catching fish etc....

I learned more in a couple years than I ever could have on my own.

It's probably a good thing that there is no hazing or harassing, or just plain arrogance in this club. I cannot stand that and I'm the type of guy who would call the offenders on their actions. I think those types are more the exception than the norm, at least in this area..........

[Brian_Reeves]

when it comes to tournaments, I am VERY competitive and I have to fight to make sure my mouth doesn't get the best of me.  Off the water, I try to be helpful but on the water, I struggle to mind my manners.  It is a form of gambling...very much like poker.  There are a lot of variables that are out of control.  Weather, temps, people participating, currents, fish mood...all of that.  When I find myself on the fish and someone moves into my turf, I'm tempted to toss a crankbait at someone's head.  I've only done that once, and that's because they got mad and fired up their engine and made as much racket as possible.  They started it ;D

Sportsmanship in fishing is like in any other sport.  There are people in football that are the nicest dudes you'll ever meet on or off the field.  Then there are the Terrel Owens.  I think that when you decide to step into the tournament world, you're opening yourself up to see the ugly side of a lot of people.  Money is involved...and that always brings out the worst in some.  I fight it, and I fight it hard and usually with success.  I do my best to be the grown up in any confrontation on the water.

[5bass]

Sticks and stones may......you've heard it before. Ignore the blockheads and just fish your tournament. You cant let other people get under your skin like that. Words are just that.....words. Concentrate on and perfect your game, thats the easiest way to shut them up without getting physical. When you or your buddy start carrying THEIR money home, they wont have anything else to talk about.

[RobDar]

Is sportsmanship dying?

NO.

But you are confusing tournament bass fishing with sport bass fishing.

The minute you enter a tournament you are gambling.

You ante up your entry fee and expenses and bet that you will BEAT others for the payout.

This is not sport fishing. This is business.

To many it is very serious business.

It would be nice to say that these guys are just "hazing" newbies, but that is not the case.

They are trying to intimidate and deflate their competitors so they can gain an advantage, while pumping themselves up for the big event.

It's a comptetition, not a sport (look it up)

WOW!!!! you should change your handle from Avid to "easy made livid". There is valum in the cabinet I can mail a few.

[RobDar]

FOR AVID:

first...I know the different between competition and sport. I also have a good deal of fun harrassing some of the guys and they me. There is a difference between a little hazing and uptalk...even a little intimidation...a being downright rude.

First of all...the tourney season is OVER for us, which was mentions in the post, so there is no competition factor in what these guys said.

Second...they do not fish the same division so this kid is not even their competition....until the end of the year tournament, if the kid even qualifies, which he did not this year...so no competition at all.

Third...it is not competition when you are harrassing guys while they are shopping at Bass Pro...that is just being a jerk.

If this would have happened at a tourney, during the season, or between teams that fish against each other; I would, like many of you, chalked it up to a little pre-game hazing.

...as always the devil is in the details...read more carefully.

[RobDar]

you guys are right there are good guys and bad guys...good and bad in all things. I guess I just have a little bit of a soft spot for the young guys who are struggling. Hey I still struggle and do not have NEAR the experience or skill alot of the guys in club have...so maybe I am just a little sensitive to these guys behavior. The frustration is fresher in my mind maybe than alot of the guys who have some consistant success.

I also feel though, as a director, that if you come and pay your entry fee, you have the right to fish and be treated like everyone else.

AND I DO NOT UNDERSTAND...they paid their money and added it to the purse, so I would think the guys with the best chance of winning would be SMILING about that. This newbie just took his money and put it in their pocket.  I mean if the guy really is not the threat than what is the point in even worrying about it then???

I talked to their director yesterday and he said he has had alot of problems with that team. He says they ruin the whole day when they show up for a tourney.

I do not know about you guys, but that does not sound like competition if you ask me.

[Jeff H]

I agree totally with DELee.  I fished tournaments for years and even though I was never on the recieving end of this kind of crap I heard of and saw plenty of it.  There is a lot of other BS and underhanded crap that goes on other than just spoken word.  It's pretty sad really but it is something everybody has to deal with in their program.

DELee, if I was you,  what I would do is find out if those buttmunch bigmouths have any sponsors and let them know how well they (use their names) conduct themselves among the sports future participants.  Tell them you would like to hear what THEY think about it.  

[Guest avid]

deele.

Man I understand why the valum  oooops I think you meant valIum.  (how many have YOU taken?)

Is in your cabinet.  Maybe you needed a few before you made your pitbull post.  Or maybe you had already taken too many.

For you and the other remedial reading members of the forum......

Your original post ends with a question........"Is sportsmanship dead"  this was YOUR final statement in YOUR post.

So I generously and with only good intentions answered your question in a sincere manner.

I re-read my post and saw no anger or malice in it whatsoever.

Yet you chose to read my thoughtful reply to YOUR dilemma as some sort of attack.

I truly do not get it.

I think it will be better for each of us as well as the forum if we ignore each other.

I assure you,  I will not have any difficulty in that regard.

Avid has spoken  

[bassmaster8100]

I have met some of these ***holes in some open tournaments I have fished in. I dont think sportsmanship is dead, but is these people who make our sport look bad. From what Ive seen those anglers who get out and talk trash are the same ones that get on the water and show their tale. Break the law, not always but Ive noticed alot of them showing out on the water. But that select group of people mouth off to you usually in front on the other competing anglers and whoever else may be at the lake. I joined a bass club back in January and have been very fortunate to get involved with a great group of guys where all that kinda crap dont go on. The older guys in the club are always offering advice to young anglers such as myself and everybody is really cool towards one another. Everybody seems to be friends and get along great on and off the water, Im just thankful to be part of this club. I have enjoyed it very much from the great conversation with all the anglers on and off the water, to being able to learn from the older and wiser anglers to great fishing, its alot of fun. O and thank you bassresource I actually found  the club Im in through the club links on this website.  

[Jeff H]

I never saw it at the club level until we got to State. Even there it wasn't all that bad and those who were noted ******, well the word was out on them. We had one such guy in our own club and finally asked him to leave. Low entry fee and payback events were not a problem either. It's when you stepped up to the local "elite" level and started fishing for a $5000-$10,000 first place check that things got really ugly. It's always the money. it's been mentioned here in about every post so far.

You can either go "charlie bronson"(and probably get arrested) on these guys or you learn to deal with it. The insults were nothing, you just let that crap roll off your back and do your own thing. Who cares what anyone says, concentrate on getting a limit. It's the other crap that is hard to deal with...the following and watching where you fish, the consequent "spot burning" and moving fish, or they find out what you have going and where and tell everyone else what patterns you are fishing etc, thereby crowding your areas. I've seen guys marking beds with white landscaping rock and paying others to sit on their spots until they show up to fish them. In fact, one of the biggest names ever known in this sport did exactly that in his early days of the BASS scene so all this stuff goes back to the root of our sport. The cliques among the "top hooks" are devious and they play games. You gotta learn to beat them at their own game. It's not entirely impossible. Skip the "networking" and concentrate on yourself and your own program and you can sail right through their BS. I didn't compete to make friends, even though I did have a few out there and I did pretty well by just keeping to myself. However, your best friend will sell you out if it means getting himself closer to $10,000 and the prestige among his peers if he can win, and don't doubt that. On event day, there are NO friends and you'd do best to remember that.

There will never be an end to this stuff, so you gotta roll with it if you want to compete. It's just one of the sports many hurdles. I am starting to consider coming back but it will be at the club level only. I do miss the big tournaments though too, just not all the crap that went on with them.

[5bass]

I've seen guys marking beds with white landscaping rock and paying others to sit on their spots until they show up to fish them. In fact, one of the biggest names ever known in this sport did exactly that in his early days of the BASS scene so all this stuff goes back to the root of our sport.

I know who that was!    

[RAINCLOUD36]

When I was looking at joining a local club as a non-boater I was met with a less than enthusiastic welcome. It was almost as though a resume and references were required. I fished one tournament with them and was paired with someone who hardly acknowledged I was on the boat ;D. Fortunately I'm in a club now where everyone is treated equal. I have the smallest boat at 16' 4" and the slowest with only a 75hp motor but no one cares as long as I show up for meetings and tournaments.

[Bassinfreak2]

Fivebass and Jeff H, Who was the guy who staked out his fish on the pro circuit? I know it doesn't really matter anymore but you have my curiosity going........

[5bass]

Good 'ol Roland Martin.....there are many stories about all the different things he did prior to tournaments. I cant say how true they are cause I wasnt there to witness any of it but there are several people who came forward and told their stories. Interesting stuff. :-?

[Bassinfreak2]

LOL! I should have known! I have also heard about some of the things he supposedly did along the way. Thanks Fivebass.....  

[Root beer]

I wouldn't be suprise if roland martin did that stuff. I wasn't alive then, but I still think roland martin is kind of a fake.

[5bass]

I wouldn't be suprise if roland martin did that stuff. I wasn't alive then, but I still think roland martin is kind of a fake.

I think Roland Martin is a good fisherman and all that but back when he was coming up, BASS had just gotten started and there were minimal rules on what could be and could not be done in preparations for a tournament. He took advantage of the lack of rules. It sure did help his career.

[Jeff H]

He's no fake!  Maybe some of his "early years" antics were dispicable to some people but the guy has 9 AOY titles on the books.  He didn't cheat THAT much.  Besides being a good hook, he's obviously a smart businessman and made his career pay off big time.