What makes you PRO?

[Hale]

So why is fishing different than most every other sport? A man can fish local club tournaments, win money, and still be considered an amatuer. In just about every other individual sport, if you receive any cash winnings you are considered pro. This happened to me with surfing (many years ago). I entered a pro event under amatuer status, I accepted the cash prize and from then on I was ineligible for any amatuer events.

So what makes you a pro at fishing?

[preach4bass]

The term "professional angler" or "professional fisherman" is subjective.  If you fish some smaller tournament trails you are considered a "pro" if you fish in the front of the boat and an "amature" if you fish in the back.  You have to go through a qualification process to become a BASS or FLW "pro."  So, it's kind of subjective in my opinion.

[NJfishinGuy]

when ever i think of pro i think of someone who makes there living off of fishing or at least do it most of the time.

[5bass]

Another way to be considered pro is to have over 1/2 of your yearly wages be from tournament winnings.

[Guest the_muddy_man]

So I guess that makes me a WELFARE UNEMPLYED FISHERMAN because It costs me to fish

[dink]

My shirt. ;D

[BillyBob]

So what makes you a pro at fishing?  

Don't really know when you arrive, except that calling yourself one, isn't it, others saying you are, is!

[Hale]

If we are talking a matter of opinions, then a full time guide would be considered a professional in his sport.

Is it in everyone's opinion that an endorsement contract would also define a 'pro'? (Otherwise known on here as a sponcer, sponser, or sponcir. ;D)

[Guest the_muddy_man]

Otherwise known on here as a sponcer, sponser, or sponcir. ) Hey Hale now thats funny

[bow3022]

I think experience and skill. Money, sponsors blah blah blah. You can have all the money in the world, and be a crappy angler. You can buy the best boat, gear etc etc and not catch a single fish because u can't cast a baitcaster, or have a good hookset. just me 2 cents.

[Hale]

others saying you are, is

I like that!

[BASSMACHINE]

Everyone is a professional at something. Being a professional means that there is one thing that you earn a majority of your income doing. If you are a greeter at wal-mart and make $15,000.00 a year and you fish local tournaments and win $15,001.00 in a years time you were a professional fisherman for that one year.

[earthworm77]

Disagreed, you are a Pro when your W-2 says Professional Angler or guide as your occupation. Everyone else just thinks they are.

Pro Staff means promotional staff not professional staff. You could hold a dozen staff memberships but if your W-2 says you are a contractor, you are a contractor.

[Hale]

Disagreed, you are a Pro when your W-2 says Professional Angler or guide as your occupation. Everyone else just thinks they are.

Pro Staff means promotional staff not professional staff. You could hold a dozen staff memberships but if your W-2 says you are a contractor, you are a contractor.

I dont think we are going to get a better answer than that!!!

[JT Bagwell]

Disagreed, you are a Pro when your W-2 says Professional Angler or guide as your occupation. Everyone else just thinks they are.

Pro Staff means promotional staff not professional staff. You could hold a dozen staff memberships but if your W-2 says you are a contractor, you are a contractor.

What if a person works for a company that pays enough money to allow that person to fish competitively all year (FLW or BASS Tour) on the professional side. While fishing that person wins $80,000, but his company pays him $250,000. Is he a "Pro" or just a guy that won $80,000 fishing?

This has always been an interesting topic to me.

I do not consider myself a "Pro" although I generate a good chunk of

revenue from the fishing industry (not fishing tournaments specifically).

JT Bagwell

[earthworm77]

I'll stick by the W-2 thing. Jt, do you mean that a guy earns enough money from his job at say Ford to fish competitively and that he wins 80,000. or are we talking this guy works in the fishing industry for a major tackle company and they pay his way? The first example indicates this guy is not a pro, the second indicates he may be a pro but again, I think it comes down to what he says he does for a living come tax time.

I make a good living off of the fishing industry through my company, journalism and competitive fishing I also do not consider myself a Pro.

[Its a big one]

you know you are a pro when you quit making amateur mistakes.

[Hale]

I'll stick by the W-2 thing. Jt, do you mean that a guy earns enough money from his job at say Ford to fish competitively and that he wins 80,000...

I think your onto something here. The guy in this example would write off his fishing as a hobby (if the money is even accounted for to Uncle Sam). Where as guy number 2 is explcitely filling in regards to fishing being his primary source of income.

[BillyBob]

 Here is something for you admitted "non-pros" to think about. Would you consider anyone or everyone on the BASS Elite series to be a PRO? Does the  FLW Pro-Series stand for Professional or Promotional Series? How about the BASS Opens or the Stren Series?

 The thing is, I personally know for a fact! that there's "guys" out there I'D call PRO, who on their 1040, list other occupations, and one in particular whose 1040 says," loan originator", thats won over 200K in tour money this year and is headed to the classic!... He's not a PRO ? How about the bottom third of the "guys" that don't break even on the Elite Tour, and generate livelyhoods from their outside businesses? They not Pros? Funny but they and BASS, think they are. I have to take exception to the litmus of "occupation on a 1040" as the only criteria for someone that has worked as hard and long to EARN the title of PRO.

 Heres the point. I don't care what your title or for that matter (W-2)which by the way, doesn't list your occupation, its on the 1040 beside you signature and you put it there, says...until everyone around you talks about you being a PRO ANGLER it doesn't matter what YOU call yourself. The litmus test is what others say about you, not what you say about yourself. Professionals don't have to brag, others do it for them!

 

[George Welcome]

Pro-fisherman is a designation of achievement, not one of income.

Professional fisherman is a designation of source income, but not one of achievement.

Although either can be both, neither have to be both.

A Pro-fisherman is one who is "currently" plying nationally recognized tournament trails.

A professional fisherman is one who "earns" his living fishing on a day to day basis.

My particular designation to Uncle Sam's IRS fund is Pro-Fishing Guide: not Pro-fisherman, nor professional fisherman.

[JT Bagwell]

I'll stick by the W-2 thing. Jt, do you mean that a guy earns enough money from his job at say Ford to fish competitively and that he wins 80,000. or are we talking this guy works in the fishing industry for a major tackle company and they pay his way? The first example indicates this guy is not a pro, the second indicates he may be a pro but again, I think it comes down to what he says he does for a living come tax time.

I make a good living off of the fishing industry through my company, journalism and competitive fishing I also do not consider myself a Pro.

What I was meaning in my scenario was the guys gets paid $250k from his normal job (ie, Doctor, Lawyer, Welder, etc). He also gets enough time off to

fish the tour. While on tour (fishing on the Pro side) he wins $80,000, which is

more than a lot of "Pro" anglers win. However, in the real world he is still a Doctor, Lawyer, Welder or whatever. By some people's definition he would be a Pro Angler. However, by other's standards, he would not.

As I said before, this topic always brings out some interesting thoughts and I believe they are good for the boards.

JT Bagwell

[Matt Fly]

I have always consider the pros to be the guys who pay the outrageous entry fees.

If you fish a lesser division, BFL, Weekend Series, you are semi- pro at best.

So to me, the only pro tours out there are the Elite and FLW, the rest are ladder rungs to be climbed.

Pro has always been a level that distinguishes between amatuer or professional status,  and there are a lot of guys who make the final jump who are only rookie by name.

You don't go to HS, college, then get drafted to be a pro, this is one sport that doesn't follow the normal path to determine true professional status as most other sports do.

Matt

[earthworm77]

However, in the real world he is still a Doctor, Lawyer, Welder or whatever.

I think that sums it up, he still has to go in every Monday morning and put his coat on the coat rack next to the desk and do his real job.

[Hale]

You don't go to HS, college, then get drafted to be a pro, this is one sport that doesn't follow the normal path to determine true professional status as most other sports do.

That was kind of my point to all of this and why I wanted to see everyone elses view on it.

I somewhat disagree with you though on the Pro Tours. For instance, anyone can go out and hit the three events at Bassmaster Opens and qualify for the next years Elite Series. Ranking in three events at: Kissimmee, Santee, and Wheeler is not really that difficult considering those are producing lakes and anyone can get some weight there (not underminding the competition). BASS has formatted their trails to be easy for anyone to enter and compete. Providing them the opportunity to become a 'PRO' without many years of hardship, abuse, and sacrifices.

We did get off track on something that concerns me. The money issue: No other sport will allow an amatuer to recieve cash payouts and still be qualified to fish events as an amatuer status....dont go there when it comes to the Olympics or NCAA either.

I think this sport needs a governing body that clearly outlines the guidelines and regulations of being a pro or amatuer. BASS and FLW are nothing but big business and have no concern in being a leading example of the sport (unless its for marketing purposes). Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing them either, I just see the need for some order!

[Banor]

Governing body to govern what exactly?  Specifics please.  I'd like to agree or disagree with you on this issue but dont have all the details.

B