Bending the Barb

[TheBeast]

Decided to do my own little experiment this weekend.   I bent the barb on every lure I fished this weekend and didn't loose a single fish (8 in all in about 2 hours at the pond) and had a much easier time getting hooks out.   I caught them from 6" to 3 lbs. and never any problem at all.

And I also didn't see any adverse effects with my highend chemically sharpened hooks.  The hookpoint didn't instantly become disfigured and useless.  

I actually believe my hooksets were easier and I got a better hookup ratio without the barb hindering the hook going in.

[Paul Roberts]

Beast,

Curious -What lure types did you use?

[Team9nine]

Decided to do my own little experiment this weekend. I bent the barb on every lure I fished this weekend and didn't loose a single fish (8 in all in about 2 hours at the pond) and had a much easier time getting hooks out. I caught them from 6" to 3 lbs. and never any problem at all.

And I also didn't see any adverse effects with my highend chemically sharpened hooks. The hookpoint didn't instantly become disfigured and useless.

I actually believe my hooksets were easier and I got a better hookup ratio without the barb hindering the hook going in.

BINGO - I've done the same experiment. When I did my experiment though, I kept it up for several weeks to get enough instances of repetition and enough fish hooked to make a call. Any outcome (good or bad) could happen on just a single trip or weekend. After over 3 weeks and 150+ bass landed, I couldn't point to any instance where I thought the barbless hooks hurt me. I smashed down trebles on all sorts of cranks, and single hooks on baits like Chatterbaits, jigs, jigheads and plastic worms.

I haven't kept up with smashing down barbs lately, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate or worry about doing it in the future. Most lures with trebles I change out to new micro-barb hooks anyway. I think this is one of those areas where psychology takes over, and change is incredibly difficult for many.

-T9  

[TheBeast]

Beast,

Curious -What lure types did you use?

Ragetail shad using Gamakatsu 4/0 skipgap hooks

Rage craw and Netbait Paca Craw using 2/0 skipgap

Strike King Rocket Shad 1/8 oz. spinner

Spro Bronzeye frog

[Paul Roberts]

Beast,

Neat experiment -along the lines of what I've been doing. Thanks.

T9,

Glad you piped in. I knew you were testing the barbless route, but didn't know how it fared, or how many fish you had into it. Thank you! Very interesting.

[Muddy]

I have been doing this for years,  t riggin worms. Now when I go to wacky rigs and Trick sticks:  in the deep summer. Many do, doesnt hurt the hooks and I don't have to spend 20 minutes stressing fish out from getting hooked up and damaging their gills. MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING! You don't need scientific method to figure all this out With single hook lures, you will loose fish that are other wise catchable, but if you are C and R anyhow, whats the big deal.

If you are worried about what this does to bass lips, this probablly isn't the sport for you.

[NEKvt]

I mostly fly fish for bass and trout an mash all my barbs.  I do it for no other reason than that it makes it easier to remove hooks from fish.  Situations like nymph fishing for trout, or carolina rigging worms where the hooks can wind up very deep are the reasons I started fishing barbless, it is just so much easier to get the hook out of these fish.  For small dry flies, or crankbaits that wind up in the lip barbs don't seem to be so much of an issue in that you can usually get pliers around the bend and the hook out easy.  

The nice thing about pinching barbs is that the fish doesn't need to leave the water, if you are not fishing a tourney, or it is not a fish you need a picture of you can just grab the bend of the hook, turn it over and the fish falls off without leaving the water.  

[T-rig]

I would not bend the barb on treble-hooked lures if I were you. You will lose more fish. But for single hooks, as long as you keep the pressure and fight the fish well, I believe it makes no difference in the number of fish landed. 8-)

x2. With softbaits barbless hooks work well but if you're using swimbait or wakebaits you will loose alot of fish, especially if they jump. I loose about 30% of my fish on swim/wakebaits with regular trebles, I can't imagine how many I would loose without barbs. I don't keep the bass I catch, so many would say it doesn't matter if you loose a fish, but one of those fish could be my new PB....

[dman]

How is this done anyway?  Just squeezing the barb down with a needle nose?

[iceintheveins]

I don't bend barbs on any hooks, even for trout fishing. Studies show barbless hooks don't have a lower mortality rate than barbed hooks, and barbless hooks just make it easier for fish to get away.

[NEKvt]

I don't bend barbs on any hooks, even for trout fishing. Studies show barbless hooks don't have a lower mortality rate than barbed hooks, and barbless hooks just make it easier for fish to get away.

Could you point us to some of those references?  I would be interested in reading them.  

dman just stick some pliers in perpendicular to the hook and squeeze, barb goes flat.  

[J Francho]

In~Fisherman recently (in the past year) reported a study conducted on hook mortality in trout.  Not sure what issue.

[Team9nine]

Could you point us to some of those references? I would be interested in reading them.

This page covers the topic and highlights over half a dozen studies.

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2007/10/the-debate-is-a.html

It's true, no advantage from a mortality standpoint. But barbless does appear to do much less tissue damage to the fish and is a lot easier and quicker to remove. Largely a personal preference thing at this point.

-T9

[J Francho]

Thanks for that link.

[NEKvt]

I am surprised to see that data I would have thought mortality, regardless of hook type, would be higher than it was. That high survival rate brings up a simple confound, how are you going to see a significant difference if that high a percentage are surviving? We don't see methods in these papers and in most cases can't tell where fish were hooked.

This paper shows similar mortality rates to the above papers in fish hooked in the mouth but significantly higher rates in esophagus hooked fish. They only used barbed hooks (2/0 worm) it would be interesting to see if that gut hook mortality came down with barbless hooks.

http://www.biol.ttu.edu/faculty/gwilde/Shared%20Documents/LargemouthBassModel.pdf

Here are a couple other interesting full texts for those that like to read this sort of stuff.

Tennessee tournament study

http://www2.tntech.edu/fish/PDF/Blackbass.pdf

I tried to find some papers on air exposure related mortality but could not. If anyone has any links to something like that I would be interested to read it.

This one has brief air exposure but is mostly about cardivascular response to exhaustion. Seems bass bounce back better than I do

http://www.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/LMB_TAFS_CO_MS.pdf

Note: I do not pinch all my barbs, just like a discussion that has a bit of science involved. Wish I was in school still so I could access the full texts easily.

[Team9nine]

I am surprised to see that data I would have thought mortality, regardless of hook type, would be higher than it was. That high survival rate brings up a simple confound, how are you going to see a significant difference if that high a percentage are surviving? We don't see methods in these papers and in most cases can't tell where fish were hooked.

I've got full access to all the papers listed in their entirety, but that would be a ton of reading and typing on my part to summarize them all in detail

This paper shows similar mortality rates to the above papers in fish hooked in the mouth but significantly higher rates in esophagus hooked fish. They only used barbed hooks (2/0 worm) it would be interesting to see if that gut hook mortality came down with barbless hooks.

Probably wouldn't make much difference. When fish die from being hooked in the esophagal region it is usually because the point punctured a vital organ inside the body cavity that lies along the esophagus, not because the esophagus itself was damaged. Barbs might do more damage, but a puncture to the heart or liver is probably going to be fatal regardless.

I tried to find some papers on air exposure related mortality but could not. If anyone has any links to something like that I would be interested to read it.

Shockingly, in cooler water (<75 deg.) mortality is basically zero for the times stated (up to 15 minutes exposure). Probably much higher in warmer water but that wasn't tested in either paper linked below.

Here you go:

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2008/08/re-examining-holding-your-breath-guidelines.html

-T9

[NEKvt]

Didn't think to look around that blog, thanks for the link again.  That is really amazing.  I have never thought of bass as being all that fragile, but fifteen minutes out of the water and no mortality astounds me.  Been trout fishing for too long, don't give the bass enough credit.  

Agreed on the esophagus thing as well.  After I thought about it more I figured having a fish on the end of the line yanking against a link to its vitals probably would injure it terribly regardless.  

These have to be great research projects to do, I need to get back in school for fisheries.  

[iceintheveins]

In~Fisherman recently (in the past year) reported a study conducted on hook mortality in trout. Not sure what issue.

That study showed that bait mortality in trout was much less than previously thought. This study put it at 25% when fished passively (deadsticking).

Another study from the University of Wisconsin put bait fishing for trout with an active method (drifting, jigging) at less than 5%.

I'm sure that in bass it's even lower than in trout, because trout can't be taken out of the water very long.

[Paul Roberts]

These studies have helped alleviate some of the mortality issues for me too.

However, in terms of amount of handling, and tissue damage with barbed vs barbless hooks -there's an enormous difference. In my hardest fished waters, bass with (sometimes greatly) mutilated mouths are common, especially where treble hooks are used.

Maybe returning bass with mutilated mouths doesn't bother some, or most, but for me it's akin to throwing beer cans overboard into a beloved fishery.

Yesterday I took a few fish on a crankbait, and was again amazed and pleased at how easy they were to release. But on one of those fish I hadn't mashed down the (large) barbs on that particular plug. The bass had a mouthful of barbs and it took some time to extract, with some mutilation. I even severed the tendon along the lower jaw back at the corner -(this is not uncommon). I hate that. Yeah, I can pitch 'em back, shrug my shoulders, and say "It'll live". But I still get the feeling I just pitched a beer can into the water.

To each his own I guess. Barbless catches fish, and offers a world of difference in terms of atraumatic release. Micro-barbs are a good compromise -they are easier to extract. But nothing is as easy as barbless.

[Muddy]

These studies have helped alleviate some of the mortality issues for me too.

.

Maybe returning bass with mutilated mouths doesn't bother some, or most, but for me it's akin to throwing beer cans overboard into a beloved fishery.

\

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LITTERING AND PUTTING A FISH BACK THAT YOU HOOKED>>> ON PURPOSE MIND YOU. There are many here that have fished with me so I give you fellas 2 clues. I usually just reach down , using my pliers I shake the fish right off. Most of my fish I do not even hold.

#2 Get some thick 50 lb test line and tie a knot under the barb, much the same like the doc's do in the hospital to back a hook out of one of us. This works most of the time as well as pinching the barb.

This business about multilated mouth comes with the sport and to compare that with littering is beyond me. If you feel so bad about the fish then stop fishing. Some of the best hunters I kn0w and a few here have very tragicallty not on purpose , have lost game that they shot, IT IS A PERCETANGE THING that comes with that sport. Are we gonna say they do not loved their beloved outdorrs because that sport bears that risk?

Do you think I and others are out there ripping lips and getting somekind of enjoyment out of it ?We accept the fact it happens, do what we can to avoid it and for you to make this akin to littering just really gets my goat.

[Paul Roberts]

I never suggested that angler's are enjoying mutilating fish. Nor was I equating mouth mutilation with the act of purposeful littering. Come on, Muddy.

For me, seeing mutilated bass mouths is an ugly reminder of the carelessness with which fish can be handled -if inadvertently. No one likes to tear a fish's face to remove hooks. No one that I've met. I'm definitely in that crowd. Thus, it does feel like a sort of pollution to me -an inadvertent one. Granted, it's an aesthetic. But that's a large part of why I'm out there.

It's become an issue, in my mind, in hard fished waters where fish (trout and bass) are caught repeatedly. (There are some trout waters I won't fish because of it). An occasional fish is one thing. But I started fishing a pond earlier this year in which half of the mature fish had mutilated mouths, some severely. That's when I started testing going barbless with my treble-hooks.

IT IS A PERCETANGE THING that comes with that sport.

We accept the fact it happens, do what we can to avoid it

Do we? One can accept it if they want to. I choose not to. There is a really good alternative: Pinch down your barbs.

Hunters and trappers, like myself, go to great pains to minimize game loss, and suffering. In fishing, pinching down barbs makes perfect sense to me. And more so now that I've begun to get such positive experiences with it in my bass fishing.

I believe the question was: Does going barbless with bass lures work? So far, for me, the answer is yes, for many lures (read above). More effectively than I initially thought.

Cheers!

[Muddy]

Yea Cheers, you can justify it all you want .You Wrote and I quote AKIN TO THROWING BEER CANS OVERBOARD, that by defintion is littering. I guess I am just a little too callous to be concerned so much about the fish.

A pinched barb in the gut does as much damage as a barbless one. In the last 11 years I haved killed 3 fish, and maybe a dozen of so damaged lips. I would rather to minimize a released damaged lipped fish than leave a treble sticking out of it.

I know what the original question I dind't get all on Golden Pond with the issue. I ain't here for the asthetics, I am on the water to fish, treat them as good as I can, and have some fun.

[Catt]

I think it depends on the body of water and the amount of pressure on said body of water.

If you are fishing small pond than mouth mutilation could be a problem but on larger bodies of water not so much.  

So this subject in my option is totally personal and if you agree with it fine but don't tell me it's an ugly reminder of the carelessness because that is a totally false statement.

[Paul Roberts]

treat them as good as I can

Agreed! Exactly my point.

an ugly reminder of the carelessness because that is a totally false statement.

An inadvertent carelessness. Don't misrepresent me -even for sport.

If half the fish you catch are mutilated and you don't like it, and there is an alternative...hmmmm... No brainer. Likely many anglers think barbed hooks are needed.

The original poster asked whether it would work, and I responded with my experiences. Not an issue on your waters, or with you? Fine with me. I'm not playing ethics police here, so don't misrepresent me.

If you wish to make it an ethical one for you, fine. That's up to you. I've made it an aesthetic issue, for me.

If you are fishing small pond than mouth mutilation could be a problem

I see you agree, Tom.

The point is, barbless appears to work just fine -so far. In other words, it's a viable option. That's what was asked in the first place.

[Muddy]

There is no sport and no misrepresenting you. I may not be as eloquent as you, but I really have no use for someone making pee pee on my sneakers and then telling me it's raining outside.

This is like a smart lawyer getting something in front of a jury then the other side objets, the judge sustains the objection and tells the Jury to disreguard what the first mook said TOO LATE!