Bending the Barb

[Hoover]

When flyfishing for trout, I would bend or flatten the barb end of the hook, making catch and release easier on the fish.  What are your thoughts about bending/flattening the barbs on hooks when bass fishing?  Do you think there are advantages or are you significantly increasing the risk of losing a big fish?  In practice, what do you all do?  Thanks.  Tom

[Handy]

Actually I have just started doing this on my treble hook baits. The last few bass I got really swallowed the trebles and made it very hard to "nicely" get the hooks out. I ended up releasing bass with very bloody mouths. If the bass gets away  because of the squashed barbs then no biggie as I fish only for fun.

Paul

[scott k]

I bend all the barbs down on the hooks/lures that I fish with 90% of the time.  Some of those barbs are so big I really have a hard time getting the fish off if I dont squeeze them down, like on 4/0 EWG hooks. 100% of those get squeezed down.  By the way, I dont do any tournament or competitive fishing but I dont have any problems with fish getting off, just keep the line tight!

[atrocity]

yea i started fishing barbless too, i havnt lost a fish yet. i think its soo much easier un-hooking fish. i also think its more fun trying to keep more pressure on the fish

[adclem]

Thanks for the info.  I am going to start doing this as well.  Sometimes it is a pain to get the barb out.

Thanks,

[Paul Roberts]

I went barbless for my plastics last year, and this year started experimenting with barbless hardbaits -so far so good! I got tired of contributing to the mutilated mouth syndrome.

I'm a long-time FF too, so it wasn't a stretch.

[PondHunter]

I started smashing the barbs on my hooks for use in my pond because I had one good sized fish so deeply hooked, I thought it was going to bleed to death before I could get the hook out. The next year I started using a flyrod and was amazed at how well that long rod played and landed fish with barbless hooks, that most of my rods now have a lighter power rating so that I can keep a bend in it and land more fish.

The only fish I have lost on barbless hooks were my fault.

[Tokyo Tony]

This was the first thread I ever started on the site:  

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1189202496/0

I would not bend the barb on treble-hooked lures if I were you. You will lose more fish. But for single hooks, as long as you keep the pressure and fight the fish well, I believe it makes no difference in the number of fish landed.  8-)

[roadwarrior]

The only fish I have lost on barbless hooks were my fault.

Huh?

Be careful, bending the barb can destroy the point.

I see no reason to do this. Buy some needle nose

pliers, learn the technique for extracting deep hooks

and you will not have issues.

http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/articles/if2806_HookRemoval/

8-)

[TheBeast]

Be careful, bending the barb can destroy the point.

How??

Buy some needle nose

pliers, learn the technique for extracting deep hooks

With those same needle nose you shouldn't be anywhere close enough to the point to bother it any.

http://www.finefishing.com/1freshfish/aahowto/lines,knots,etc/barbless.htm

[rfrazier]

Going to test bending down my EWGs for a little

[roadwarrior]

Be careful, bending the barb can destroy the point.

How??

Buy some needle nose

pliers, learn the technique for extracting deep hooks

With those same needle nose you shouldn't be anywhere close enough to the point to bother it any.

http://www.finefishing.com/1freshfish/aahowto/lines,knots,etc/barbless.htm

#1 Modern, high quality hooks are chemically sharpenend. Bending the barb has the potential of destroying the physical integrity of the hook point.

#2 Fine...In 1984...

Just another guy's opinion which I don't agree with.

8-)

[Paul Roberts]

RW, I have to disagree on a couple of your points (no pun intended).

It's easy to flatten a barb without damaging the point. And one can easily test the points on your thumbnail before fishing. Plus, a barbless point is easier to set.

As for the IF article: I can't see how you could do that with a hard bait.

Further, one of the things that research into the hooking mortality has shown is that esophagus hooked fish, even with the hook removed, even without a lot of apparent damage, have a high mortality rate, due to infection.

Turns out that 98% of the bass (all but one) hooked in the mouth survived the simulation, whereas only 2/3 (66%) of the esophagus hooked LMB did the same. All control fish survived.

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2008/04/where-you-hooke.html

As for losing fish: So far, with single hooked plastics I just haven't noticed a difference. With heavy lures I think it is more possible to lose a fish, especially if they jump, or head thrash. I don't mash barbs on jigs because they just don't swallow them like they do with plastics. With my jigs, and spinnerbaits, I like micro-barbed hooks, or, if the barb is too large I flatten it down almost all the way.

Crankbaits are a potentially different story, as far as losing fish, say in a jump. Trouble is those trebles can really tear up a bass' mouth. I hate that. I hate seeing it and contributing to it.

I don't make my living tournament fishing, so, for myself, I'd rather lose a few fish than contribute to the mutilated mouth syndrome -and treble hooks are the worst in this department.

But, since going barbless this year, my crankbaits have been holding just fine. I've been surprised actually. And it's so nice how they slip out. No pliers, no extra handling, fewer worries about myself getting stuck.

I'm not sure about lipless cranks ('Traps) though. IF had an article last year that claimed that losses with these baits is due to thin wire "springy" hooks. They suggested using 4X wire. Interesting thought, but I haven't tried it.

[Muddy]

I got some reversed barb worm hooks from Brent of ***. All you have to do is grab the shank and shake em off,I wonder why these hooks are not popular?

[Wayne P.]

Most of the time when I mash the barb, it breaks off and if it doesn't, I rotate the needle nose pliers a little and it falls off. I don't want that little piece of metal in my finger if it should come loose when unhooking a fish.

[J Francho]

Barbless trout fishing is so successful because you are already using gear that is meant to absorb most of the stress a hooked fish imparts on the line and terminal tackle.  That absorptive quality comes with a compromise to sensitivity.  If you are going to go barbless with bass, then you need to reassess your current gear, and probably move down a notch in taper speed on most of your rigs.  I personally cannot imagine going barbless on a 3/4 grass jig on 65# braid and a 7-6 XH/X-Fast stick.  The barb on that bait does hold the hook in the fish, not the other way around.

Doug Hannon has written and spoken about this at length, and I'm pretty sure that he is speaking of lighter baits and more specifically crankbaits.  In those situations, I can see barbless fishing working well, since I use a moderate taper casting stick for cranks, which absorbs most of the bass's movement.

I'm not going to start bending the barbs down on any of my hooks though.  

[TheBeast]

#1 Modern, high quality hooks are chemically sharpenend. Bending the barb has the potential of destroying the physical integrity of the hook point.

I don't see how the hook is sharpened has anything to do with it.   Bending the barb slightly doesn't cause any heat build up or anything else that would do the damage you speak of.  All you are doing is pinching the barb down to flatten it.   Unless you are just tarded and grab it like you are trying to take the lugnuts off your truck with the pliers, there is no way you will effect the physicall integrity of the hook.  

And chemical sharpening isn't necisarilly that great either.

"The chemical smoothes or "eats away" the metal and, in effect, refines the point. This is quite a critical operation because if the chemical sharpening goes on too long it will eventually dull the point and may weaken the barb. Furthermore, if the chemical attacks one side of the point more than the other then the point will be weakened. Finally, it is important to remember that chemical sharpening will not make a weaker point into a strong one. It is more likely to make a suspect point even weaker!"

[Paul Roberts]

Barbless trout fishing is so successful because you are already using gear that is meant to absorb most of the stress a hooked fish imparts on the line and terminal tackle.  That absorptive quality comes with a compromise to sensitivity.  If you are going to go barbless with bass, then you need to reassess your current gear, and probably move down a notch in taper speed on most of your rigs.  I personally cannot imagine going barbless on a 3/4 grass jig on 65# braid and a 7-6 XH/X-Fast stick.  The barb on that bait does hold the hook in the fish, not the other way around.

Doug Hannon has written and spoken about this at length, and I'm pretty sure that he is speaking of lighter baits and more specifically crankbaits.  In those situations, I can see barbless fishing working well, since I use a moderate taper casting stick for cranks, which absorbs most of the bass's movement.

I'm not going to start bending the barbs down on any of my hooks though.

JF, that's a good point. FF is different, but less in the way you suggest. Why it works so well in FF is because the hooks are small, and the mass exists in the line -not at the lure. You can literally drop the rod tip and let a hooked fish swim around -the hook staying in part because that thick fly-line being dragged around behind keeps enough tension.

Also, the sensitivity issue you mention is "hindered" by the very thick line, not the comparatively soft rod. FF is just different. You get feel by keeping a short line (FF is, mostly, a relatively short range game) or holding the line in your fingers. The rod is generally matched to tippet strength, and hook size, too -much like conventional tackle.

Going barbless with conventional tackle certainly doesn't require a rod so "soft" that it sacrifices sensitivity.

But I see your point: With conventional tackle, YOU must keep the hook in with even pressure. It's slack line coupled with a massive lure that allows the fish to throw a bait. Barbs help here, but keeping proper tension is MUCH more important. And that's your point, it may be harder to keep even pressure with a very stiff rod and low stretch line. A very heavy jig on flipping tackle might be easier for fish to throw, especially if the fish gets around some vegetation that might introduce a little slack.

Interestingly, I think the way one needs to fight bass with mega-swimbaits is a good example. Any slack can result in that lure torquing out of the fish's mouth. So, we crank like crazy and get 'em in as smoothly and quickly as we can. Anyone dare go barbless with a big heavy swimbait? With such a massive bait, and a PB on the line, I think this would be foolish. (But I wouldn't be at all surprised if some mega-lure configurations would keep fish pinned, barbless).

In most situations, I don't think going barbless would require a change in tackle. I think most anglers already keep adequate tension on fish with the tackle they have to keep a hook in. Barbs don't make that much of a difference, at least with plastics. And as I said, I'm doing (surprisingly) well with crankbaits, although I need to give it more time and more fish.

Beyond leaping fish and surface head thrashes (things we can act to avoid, if we choose), and wrapping up in cover, most fish are lost from too much tension -often at hand or boatside (the short line issue), tear-outs (common with smaller gapped trebles), and break-offs. These are all things we can learn to avoid. Barbs have little to do with them.

[KevinH]

I mostly fish for peacock bass in South Florida, and will almost always flatten barbs.  The way these guys crash baits, if you have mean barbs, you are going to have some troubles getting then unhooked..... and I have had more than one of those guys throw the hook back into ME when I am trying to get them off the lure!

Yes, I do occasionally lose one who throws the hook during the fight (but that is going to happen anyway with these critters..... they are crazy strong for their size).

Kevin

[J Francho]

Who said anything about fly fishing? Blech!  ;D  I use an 9'6" spinning rod, 11' center pin, and 8'6" casting rig for trout and salmon.  When I'm swinging spoons, I sometimes use a 3/4 oz. bait with a #2 to 1/0 hook.  Its the rod.  About the heaviest line I use is 17# for pre run Chinook.  Otherwise its 4-8# mono or equivalent diameter braid.

Anyway, I have some vintage, handmade live bait hooks.  The barb is COMPLETELY different than what is seen today on most modern hooks.  I'll try to get a picture, but suffice it to say that the barbs were a lot bigger.

[Paul Roberts]

I see. I did a lot of drift fishing in the Great Lakes and LOVED it!

In that kind of fishing, such a long rod does help in keeping proper tension, and absorb the actions of large VERY fast and often reckless fish (esp with light line), as well as keep line of moving water (maybe the biggest reason for such a rod).

But...these just aren't relevant issues in bass fishing. And I don't see where barbs have anything to do with it.

Standard bass tackle will work fine with barbless hooks, excepting, as you mention, certain flipping situations, and huge swimbaits. I also wonder about heavy compact lures like jigging spoons, bladebaits, and lipless cranks.

[J Francho]

It is fun Paul!  No one but you, you're freezing hands, and the fish - I love winter steelheading

You make some great points, especially with regard to fly line that I hadn't considered.  I wonder also if the barb doesn't help keep the bait in position on the hook when using weedless plastics.  I'm still not going barbless, though.

Anyway, good chatting here with you.  I'll try to take some macros of the old bait hooks and compare them to modern tackle.  At the very least, they might be cool to see up close.

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks JF. Yes, interesting topic.

Steelhead might be the one fish that could cost me my job and family. My wife still doesn't let me forget the year she came (from China) to see me (before we were married), and the steelhead were swarming. I never did find time to see her. I'm glad we now live a 1000 miles from them. ;D

Will be neat to see those old hooks, and hear about where they are from.

Hey! You're in Rochester -my old stomping grounds: Oak Orchard to Pulaski and everything in between.

[kickbasskid]

I bent the hook on one of my laser eyes and lost every fish. Switched to a barbed hook and have landed every fish since.

[fathom]

seem to be doing a lot less surgery on the water since going barbless several years ago.

imo, barbs were designed to keep bait on a hook, not fish.