Attractant Part Two

[Sam]

Dantatro49 asks a simple question that has produced a lot of responses and is one of the "lightning rod" subjects discussed on this forum.

What we need to do is to separate "scent" from "taste" if we are going to have a proper discussion.

For us old forum members, we know about Dr. Keith Jones' studies at Berkley's Pure Fishing where Dr. Jones says bass cannot take oil molecules into their sensing areas so they do not smell attractants with an oil base.

But what about taste?  Bass taste with their lips and mouth area so you want an attractant that tastes good so the fish will hold the bait for a few seconds longer. This allows us to have more time to reel in any slack and set the hook.

So, as far as I am concerned, attractant provides the following advantages:

1.  It gives us confidence.

2.  It can make your bait cut through grass and pads easier, like the MegaStrike product.

3.  The fish can taste it, giving us a little more time to set the hook.

As for scents, who knows?  Dr. Jones says that anise repels bass but for those of us who used to make our own attractants, anise is one of the standard ingredients. And they worked.

But you put some scent into a large body of water and it dissapates rapidly. So using this logic, how can the bass smell anything that is moving and leaving a slim trail of odor after it?

We all use garlic, for what reason I don't know, other than it is included in a lot of attractants and it smells good to us.  But put it in an oil base and the bass are not supposed to be able to smell it.  But can they taste it?

Is taste the secret to garlic?

We need to discuss which attractant 1) has the best smell that the bass can smell and 2) which ones have the best taste.

Or, just buy scented plastics and the heck with the entire disucssion.  

[George Welcome]

Working on it Sam - it's just this darn bass language course is a killer. Been trying learn some 50 years now, but I don't seem to be any closer. It might be easier to teach them english.

[Catt]

Working on it Sam - it's just this darn bass language course is a killer. Been trying learn some 50 years now, but I don't seem to be any closer. It might be easier to teach them english.

Exactly  

[CRFisher]

Anyone with a quick, cheap homemade concoction?   Garlic or otherwise.  I can think of ways to get things to smell like powerbait, but I don't want to go there.

Also, if the scent is merely suspended in oil, in theory it should eventually seperate as it comes off the lure and (being a non-oil)be  able to be smelled by the fish.

[grimlin]

I just recently picked up the book by Dr. Keith Jones "knowing bass".I'm not gonna lie this whole this is new.As stated it says worm extract is the best to use.But who does make it?

It almost made me want to somehow extract bloodworms into a scent....

[Bobby Uhrig]

I have looked at the molecular structure of these oils. They (the molecules) coagulate together in groups to large for the olfactory glands and chemoreceptors to accept.What Dr.Jones states has some validity to it. As for the anise oil and garlic oil-thats what they are OILS-the have the pretty much same molecular structure as the oils used in many of the so called "FISH ATTRACTANTS" - I truely believe that the fish do not taste these products at all. They are going undetected.The fish are just hitting the baits out of reaction and the fishermen are just reacting setting the hook to the feel. I have been underwater with bass for over 20 years. I have seen them hit baits(all types) swim with them and hold them for a while then expell them and just swim away. I have also seen them inhale baits -spit them out then inhale them agin and again. It was like they were waiting for the natural flavors to be there but they were not. Then they just lost interest and swam away.Like Geoege stated-when doing testing there has to be what is called a controll.-To get the abssolute positive results and data each variable -condition-"control" must be exactly the same to make your deductuction or conclusion. I also believe with live animals that can not always be done.Fish ,human beings and animals get conditioned to certain tests and if you bring in a different specimen it changes the controll.The fish can also get conditioned to eating certain flavors -kinda like in the fish hatcherys foods. They are let go into the wild then have to trial and error the real world.I believe genetics take over from there. Whats going to happen when the fish that are raised in hatcheries and that certain gene to be wild and eat wild things is no longer dominent??? Man has become conditioned to eat what we eat -prepared foods -going to the supemarket ect-Could we survive in the wild- Better start watching Man VS Wild or survivorman. LOL. Those guys are nuts but think about it probibly 90% of the population would become extinct. So as for the testing-I really dont know how much of it can be stated as coincidental or fact. Just my opinion

[Avalonjohn44]

Dr. Jones says that anise repels bass

This is a shock to me.  I wonder if this is a true statement, or if the head scientist at Berkley Bait Company might have an ulterior motive by saying this...

[Bobby Uhrig]

No .I truely do not believe that it is done to sell product. It was all probibly done  and documented BUT like I stated before his results may vary from other  test results based on the conditions. He is a very well knowledged man.There are other scientists and physicists that disagree with Stephen Hawkings theories-It dosent mean they are all correct.

[toolpush]

I don't know what the bass think but that stuff tastes terrible.  

[roadwarrior]

I don't know what the bass think but that stuff tastes terrible.

Lather up a GYCB Fat Ika and pop it in your mouth.

Chew it a time or two and spit the whole thing out.

You'll be surprised, it's pretty tasty!

8-)

[George Welcome]

I don't know what the bass think but that stuff tastes terrible.

Lather up a GYCB Fat Ika and pop it in your mouth.

Chew it a time or two and spit the whole thing out.

You'll be surprised, it's pretty tasty!

8-)

YIKES!

[HopelesslyAddicted]

I have looked at the molecular structure of these oils. They  (the molecules) coagulate together in groups to large for the olfactory glands and chemoreceptors to accept.What Dr.Jones states has some validity to it. As for the anise oil and garlic oil-thats what they are OILS-the have the pretty much same molecular structure as the oils used in many of the so called "FISH ATTRACTANTS" - I truely believe that the fish do not taste these products at all. They are going undetected.The fish are just hitting the baits out of reaction and the fishermen are just reacting setting the hook to the feel. I have been underwater with bass for over 20 years. I have seen them hit baits(all types) swim with them and hold them for a while then expell them and just swim away. I have also seen them inhale baits -spit them out then inhale them agin and again. It was like they were waiting for the natural flavors to be there but they were not. Then they just lost interest and swam away.Like Geoege stated-when doing testing there has to be what is called a controll.-To get  the abssolute positive results and data each variable -condition-"control" must be exactly the same to make your deductuction or conclusion. I also believe with live animals that can not always be done.Fish ,human beings and animals get conditioned to certain tests and if you bring in a different specimen it changes the controll.The fish can also get conditioned to eating certain flavors -kinda like in the fish hatcherys foods. They are let go into the wild then have to trial and error  the real world.I believe genetics take over from there. Whats going to happen when the fish that are raised in hatcheries  and that certain gene to be wild and eat wild things is no longer dominent??? Man has become conditioned to eat what we eat -prepared foods -going to the supemarket ect-Could we survive in the wild- Better start watching Man VS Wild or survivorman. LOL. Those guys are nuts but think about it probibly 90% of the population would become extinct. So as for the testing-I really dont know how much of it can be stated as coincidental or fact. Just my opinion

Wait a minute Bobby, are you saying JJ's magic doesn't work?  

[toolpush]

I don't know what the bass think but that stuff tastes terrible.

Lather up a GYCB Fat Ika and pop it in your mouth.

Chew it a time or two and spit the whole thing out.

You'll be surprised, it's pretty tasty!

8-)

YIKES!

Must be the salt in the fat ika. ;D

[gar-tracker]

Man I remember when Anise was in all of the attractants, they always said it attracted bass.

I guess we never checked on who "THEY" were

[Bobby Uhrig]

Hopeless-Absolutly not what I was saying. I have never even seen ,tried,or taken it apart to see what was in it. In order for a fish to eat it or even to hold on to it longer-it must have some sort of food value to it. If it does not-It gets expelled and thats it.Fish,animals,human beings cannot go around eating or swallowing objects that have no food value to them.Although I have read many ingrediants on packaging and wonder what the heck are we eating this for.The fish react to the lures action or triggering qualities. They will attack them for several reasons.I have filmed them holding baits with nothing on it for quite a while depending how agressive and what kind of mood they are in-then ultimately it gets expelled. I have also seen bass and other fish that will eat just about anything if they are in schools with a lot of competition around. They are opprtunists and sometimes they have to fend off the competition just in order to get a meal.

[gar-tracker]

"Hopeless-Absolutly not what I was saying. I have never even seen ,tried,or taken it apart to see what was in it. In order for a fish to eat it or even to hold on to it longer-it must have some sort of food value to it."

I used to keep a small bass in an aquarium, when I ran out of minnows and he was really hungrey I could drop a plastic worm in the tank and he woulod engulf the worm, the second it hit the water,he would eventually spit it out but not for awhile, it surprised me as to how long he held it, many times I would think he ate it and ws going to dye only to find it floating the next day.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

I used to keep a small bass in an aquarium, when I ran out of minnows and he was really hungrey I could drop a plastic worm in the tank and he woulod engulf the worm, the second it hit the water,he would eventually spit it out but not for awhile, it surprised me as to how long he held it, many times I would think he ate it and ws going to dye only to find it floating the next day.

Why on earth would you put the plastic worm in there (many times as you say) thinking in the back of your mind that the fish might die...

Sometimes I just dont get people.... Seriously?  :

Anyway, as Bobby has said before...Confidence is the biggest influence in this debate.  Fishing a bait you have confidence in will always work better for you.  If adding one (or more) of the myriad scents out there to your bait makes you 100% certain you are going to catch more fish, then I am pretty sure you are going to catch fish.

Sorry I am so un-scientific.  It never really was my thing.

Wayne

[gar-tracker]

 I never in my wildest dreams thought it would eat the d**n thing, and if it did I knew it would spit it out, like it did.

Understand me now?

[HopelesslyAddicted]

Hopeless-Absolutly not what I was saying. I have never even seen ,tried,or taken it apart to see what was in it. In order for a fish to eat it or even to hold on to it longer-it must have some sort of food value to it. If it does not-It gets expelled and thats it.Fish,animals,human beings cannot go around eating or swallowing objects that have no food value to them.Although I have read many ingrediants on packaging and wonder what the heck are we eating this for.The fish react to the lures action or triggering  qualities. They will attack them for several reasons.I have filmed them holding baits with nothing on it for quite a while depending how agressive and what kind of mood they are in-then ultimately it gets expelled. I have also seen bass and other fish that will eat just about anything if they are in schools with a lot of competition around. They are opprtunists and sometimes they have to fend off the competition just in order to get a meal.

Oh I know Bobby.  I was just kind of poking fun at this whole scent/taste thing.  I use megastrike and jjs sometimes.  I like megastrike better simply because its easier to use.  They both make em hold on.  You mentioned that you've never tried jj's or taken it apart.  It would be pretty incredible for a man like you to do just that and tell us what you think.  I'm a little surprised you haven't at least tried it.

[daviscw]

Just a question here...

How do fish become gut-hooked off a plastic worm since there is no real food value? Is the salt in the plastic considered a food value? In that case, what is the point in using attractants and flavors with plastics?

[gar-tracker]

Just a question here...

How do fish become gut-hooked off a plastic worm since there is no real food value? Is the salt in the plastic considered a food value? In that case, what is the point in using attractants and flavors with plastics?

Good point.  (No pun intended)

[HopelesslyAddicted]

Just a question here...

How do fish become gut-hooked off a plastic worm since there is no real food value? Is the salt in the plastic considered a food value? In that case, what is the point in using attractants and flavors with plastics?

Good point.  (No pun intended)

x3 very good point  I've pulled creme worms out of a bass's gullet before and they have no salt or attractant in them.  But its not so hard to imagine that some bass are just dumber and more agressive eaters at the same time.

[Catt]

Until man can sit & talk with a bass it's all conjecture; the same goes for color  

[Paul Roberts]

How do fish become gut-hooked off a plastic worm since there is no real food value? Is the salt in the plastic considered a food value? In that case, what is the point in using attractants and flavors with plastics?

Even unscented soft plastics are at risk of being swallowed. It's that they are soft enough that many bass will just bolt them down. I think in many cases it's the tension of the line that makes them spit them.  I've gone barbless because of it.

[Eddie Munster]

I don't see how scent has nothing to do with how a bass perceives food. Who here avoids rubbing SPF sun protection lotion (or insect repellent, fuel, etc...) on themselves before handling lures? I know I do and I'm sure most everyone here thinks fish will avoid their lure if any of it gets on it.

That might be a way to settle the debate; someone go out with live bait (to eliminate presentation as an excuse) on two rods. One has no smell and spray 'X' on the other. It can be an attractant or suntan lotion, insect repellant, etc. Something to make the bait smell different.