Getting serious with a fly rod.

[bmadd]

I've been attempting to catch fish with a fly rod now for about two years. Most of this consists of fishing for bass and bluegill in smaller ponds. I haven't really had any education on the how-tos of casting or anything else like that. I've been ignorant in thinking that I could teach myself enough for the little bit I do. I'm sure I've already developed bad habits. My biggest problem though is that my casts tend to be only 15-20 feet  :-[

If anybody has any advice for casting or any other resources that they've used to help them I would really appreciate it. I've searched for videos on youtube but I don't know what to think of random people giving advice haha.

BTW, I use 2 rods.

For bluegill, a 7'6" 4wt. For bass, a 9' 5wt.

[SirSnookalot]

Too much wrist and not enough arm & shoulder will yield shorter casts and carpal syndrome.........This is one area of fishing where the quality of the rod makes a big difference.

My 9wt is old, but real decent, my buddies who have bought in recent years never spend less than 5-700 for just the rod.

[fourbizz]

line that properly matches your rod is critical. Consider up lining one weight if you are struggling for distance.

Accelerate smoothly when starting the forward or backward stroke, dont jerk. Jerking unloads the rod. Stop your rod abruptly at the end of the forward and backward stroke. Abruptly!

Allow the line to lay out behind you and load the rod before starting your forward motion.

A good fly cast takes a whole let less work and movement than a bad one.

Great rods can be had for under $250. Convention states that slower rods are easier to learn. After ten years of passive fly fishing, I got a very fast rod and actually learned how to cast.

To recap:

Line! Go to a shop, any shop worth their salt will have demo reels filled with demo line to put on your rod and cast in the parking lot under expert supervision.

Abrupt stops this shoots the line back with more energy, thus, your rod loads better, which translates into a lot more energy to send forward.

Wait let the line lay out behind you and load the rod before starting forward.

and in case it still isnt clear LOAD THE ROD!

These tips brought to you by the neighborhood bass fisherman turned fly fishing hack ;D

[Rebel Angler]

I use my fly rod for trout an smallies. When I was first getting into it I would sit on the computer for hours watching videos and reading articles about casting an fly tying.

here's a few I liked

http://www.monkeysee.com/video/search?method=get

http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_1836_advanced-fly-fishing_-cast-line.html

http://www.virtualflycasting.com/title.htm

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/contents.shtml

http://www.questoutdoors.net/skills/spey/video/

hope some of this helps!

[Hooligan]

You've got pretty good advice thus far.  I can't add much to it.  If you're intent on learning a proper cast, one item that I'd point you to that is very beneficial is the Wulff Wristlock.  It works wonders with those limp wrist casts.

One thing you/re describing to me is that in your back cast you're dropping your tip.  That will almost always be a cause of reduced distance in short rods, and it's a tendency with short rods because of the weight distribution.  If you're in an open enough area that you can cast and watch your cast, do so.  Watch what your line does at every transition.  Watch what your rod tip is doing in conjunction with your line, as well.

In regards to rods, a better rod will, indeed, make you a better caster.  It will not, however teach you how to make a proper cast.  Once you have the basics down it will magnify the bad habits in your cast and make you aware of them in a much more noticeable manner.  It will then allow you correct them much easier.  Typically today's higher end graphite rods are more forgiving than lower end rods.  Meaning you can still get some distance and accuracy out of the cast with all your habits in the stroke. 

I fish primarily Sage and Winston rods, and have come to love the Z Axis trout rods; I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to you at all.  The rod is your greatest tool in fishing, learning to utilize it for all it has is something that will make your life a lot easier in terms of the cast.

[Paul Roberts]

Fly-casting is not intuitive. And it's the biggest hurdle, bc like all fishing with artificials, control is everything.

If you can, get instruction from someone who knows hoe to instruct. You can do it from reading and video, but having someone there to correct your basic faults helps a lot.

[bmadd]

Thanks guys. One big problem is that there isn't any fly shops nearby really. West Tennessee doesn't have any trout waters, besides stocked city ponds. I'll have to drive a few hours to get to some.

My two rods are definitely LOW grade haha. The 5wt is a Shakespeare that was given to me as a Christmas gift several years ago and the 4wt is a Fenwick Eagle GT. Both rods combined are still less than $100 I suppose.

From the tips and a video I watched last night, two big things that stand out I've been doing wrong are 1) trying to use my wrist too much and 2) not stopping abruptly. I'm going to try the rest but those two really seem to stand out in my mind as to what I've been doing wrong.

[PondHunter]

I recommend a book entitled "Troubleshooting The Cast" by Ed Jaworowski. I got my copy at Barnes & Noble. There are small tips in this book that will really help your casting ability, like positioning of your thumb and the pressure it puts on the rod, hauling in some line to remove slack at the start of the backcast, and for me personally, practice casting over water instead of a lawn since it adds drag to the line to help load the rod on the backcast.

[Dan:]

I have been practicing a lot recently. I used to suck, now I'm slightly better than suck. I just figured out the stopping abruptly and allowing the line enough time to lay out behind you and it really makes a world of difference. Another thing that I had wrong was WAY too much arm movement. It really doesn't take a whole lot of motion to cast. I mainly bend at the elbow and the wrist. I used to have my shoulder way too involved and that was just not working.

[bmadd]

I'm hoping that arm/wrist movement as well as the stopping abruptly are my bigger problems. We shall see though.

[RyneB]

When i first started fly rodding i was casting out of a boat. I was casting it under trees and making pretty good casts for my first time. I went wading in a river for smallies and i was casting like crap. Im only 5 foot 8 and when im standing in 3 feet of water its just hard to cast.  I practice and practice and still have a hard time making casts with over hanging trees while wading. It is frustrating but its a challenge that I enjoy. I have had some truly hilarious backcasts where the fly is several feet up in the tree behind me.   :-[

[Paul Roberts]

Wrist -this is probably the biggest habit to break, bc we use our wrists when we throw just about anythng else human's have thrown, since prehistory -rocks, mangos, spears, balls lol. With a fly-rod the flexing tip becomes the wrist. So your own wrist is out of the equation -which doesn't make sense to our brain when we try to "throw" a fly line. Most of the motion, in short to medium casting, is in the fore arm. (Longer casting will involve the upper arm, but back off on that for now. It'll likely cause sloppiness you cannot afford. Fly-casting is about control, not power -at least for now. Know that an accomplished caster, that understands what needs to be done, can cast 75feet with the forearm only.)

Here's one way to look at it: The line goes where the tip goes. What you do NOT want, is a circular (from side view) "arc" of that rod tip. You want that tip to travel in a straight vector. I've heard it described: If your rod tip was a paint brush, you'd want to paint a long straight line on the ceiling, not a short one. All the throwing vector (the power loaded in the rod) should go into throwing the line straight out (forward and back) and not into the water in front of you, or the ground behind you.

You accomplish this by NOT breaking your wrist. You NEVER point the rod tip at the ground, either in front or behind you. The vector is straight behind and ahead. Also, VERY little power is needed to cast, even for distance -the rod does the work. The wait ("for the line to straighten") is really more about loading the rod so it can do it's work.

Once the rod is loaded, like a spring, you smoothly accelerate forward, then come to an abrupt stop. This is NOT a jerking motion to get the stop, VERY little power is needed -it's a smooth acceleration and stop, to direct that stored power, then crisply unleash it. It looks like a short stroke "punch". The stop has been described as "like hammering a nail", but with very little power from you -the rod has all the power needed to throw all 90feet of that line. Your job is to simply control what the direction of that power wave. Later, you'll be able to do A LOT of different things with that line, leader, tippet, and fly.

Another difficult part of this is the back-cast is the same as the fore-cast. Problem is, we are used to "punching" forward, but we never punch, or hammer nails, backwards! This takes practice for the coordination involved. But remember, little power comes from you, it's all in the rod. Fly casting is often about your staying out of the way, instead of trying to muster distance, when all that's really needed is a little coordination. And that takes practice. Hang in there. You'll get it.

What your wrist does do is keep the line from running into itself on longer casts. You don't want the rod to travel in the exact same plane on the fore and back casts. The further you cast (more line in the air) the more important this is. (When you get there, you'll run into "tailing loops", and I'll jump the gun by saying this problem lies in your wrist too). What you do is cant the rod (with your wrist and arm like your hitch-hiking) slightly out on the back cast. The rod tip cuts a tight oval in the air above you.  One a very long cast, this is more pronounced. A good book about casting in general is Lefty Kreh's Longer Fly-Casting. Actually anything by Lefty is GREAT. He's really got casting and instruction down. And he's a really accomplished angler too.

One more thing: I used to make yarn rods for the people I instructed. A rod tip, or I'd go out and pick goldenrod stems, with a piece of yarn on the tip -about twice the length of the "rod". Heavy ("ponytail") yarn is needed, but I got by with regular knitting yarns by wetting them a bit to add the needed mass. They work GREAT. They slow the cast down a bit so you have time to see what's happening. I taught em how to keep a tight loop (the straight vector thing) and had them practice in their homes. Fish taught them the rest. My students were catching within a week or two. From there the fish, and water, take over as instructors. It's a challenging and VERY satisfying path -esp on moving water.  Fascinating game.

[bmadd]

Tried out the tips for a little while today before the rain started back up. Used my arm more, wrist less. Watched my line and the rod tip. Shortened by forward and back casts. I've got to say I can tell a big difference. A lot easier. I'm still not great, but I feel a lot better  ;D

[Paul Roberts]

Eventually you'll have enough control to get your line where you want it to go. Next is getting your tippet/fly there. Your leader configuration is VERY important. I'd suggest you make your own bc purchased tapers, esp lower line one's may not be helpful.

The basic formula: 60% butt, 20% transition, 20% tippet.

Then there's more... later.

[bmadd]

I have no clue about leaders or tippet. To be honest, right now I just have about 9 ft of 4# mono joined to my fly line haha. It's been working on the bluegill around but I'd like to know more about what you're talking about Paul.

Also, can anybody recommend some good online retail sites to purchase fly gear? I know Orvis, BPS, Cabelas, and LL Bean but any others?

[fourbizz]

For cheap flies, I like www.anglersdream.net . I get some of my leaders and line from www.sierratradingpost.com.

Leaders are important. They are tapered from very thick ( about 40lb mono diameter) down to tippet ( 2-8lb test). This taper is very important for it transfers the energy of your cast all the way to the fly smoothly. Think of a bullwhip, if the whip was the same thickness throughout, it would not have the same power at the tip as a tapered one would. This ensures that your fly lays out where you want it to and not to either side, or in a puddle.The tippet is like paul said, about the last 20% of the leader. After this is gone from retying you can attach tippet to the leader using a line to line knot or loop to loop attachments. I generally clip off the tippet section of a leader the moment I attach it to my mainline, tie a perfection loop on it, and attach my tippet from my spools using another perfection loop.

[Stasher1]

For cheap flies, I like www.anglersdream.net . I get some of my leaders and line from www.sierratradingpost.com.

Leaders are important. They are tapered from very thick ( about 40lb mono diameter) down to tippet ( 2-8lb test). This taper is very important for it transfers the energy of your cast all the way to the fly smoothly. Think of a bullwhip, if the whip was the same thickness throughout, it would not have the same power at the tip as a tapered one would. This ensures that your fly lays out where you want it to and not to either side, or in a puddle.The tippet is like paul said, about the last 20% of the leader. After this is gone from retying you can attach tippet to the leader using a line to line knot or loop to loop attachments. I generally clip off the tippet section of a leader the moment I attach it to my mainline, tie a perfection loop on it, and attach my tippet from my spools using another perfection loop.

I've been doing something similar with 2mm tippet rings. It allows me to replace tippet quickly using the same knots I'd use with conventional tackle.

[bmadd]

Alright. What size leader and tippet should I buy for a 4 wt and then for a 5 wt? Also, anybody have any experience with Frog Hair?

[Paul Roberts]

Leaders

First, I'll tell you how they are made and why, so you can think for yourself as you go. You may want to make your own, or work from a factory tapered leader. I tie my own , and the only factory ones I used I didn't like the tapers. I'm sure there's good ones out there. When I didn't like the factory leader I'd just use the transition and add my own butt and tippet.

Again, The basic formula: 60% butt, 20% transition, 20% tippet. And this is roughly what you want don't need to worry about being exact.

For butt material I use .015 to .017 for 3-4wt, .017 to .019 for 5wt. You use the thicker (heavier) material for larger flies, esp in wind, thinner materials for quiet splashdown in quiet waters. It's the weight (mass), not the diameter or stiffness that matters (despite what you might read). But not too heavy; You tend to want a butt about the same stiffness as the fly-line it's going to be nail-knotted to. Test it by comparing the curvature of the fly-line and leader butt when connected they should maintain a similar curve.

The tippet is the fishing end, matched to hook size mostly. The transition is a mutli-piece step-down from the butt to the tippet. The number of steps dependant on how much diameter change there is from butt to tippet thick butt and thin tippet requires more pieces. The transition does two things: It transfers cast energy smoothly to the fly, and doesn't allow weak knots caused by too quick a transition between diff diameter pieces. About .003 is about as different a line diameter as you should attempt more important at the finer end.

An example for a 4wt line. It'll be an 8ft leader, which is a good length to start with casting wise the shorter the easier to cast. For bluegills a short leader is fine. In fact my young son uses a 3 or 4 footer with good effect, and it's something he can handle with minimal wind knot' problems:

.017 butt (5ft), .014/.011/.008/ transition (1-1/2ft total), .006 tippet (1-1/2ft), size 10/12 fly. You can vary things to fit circumstances, but confine deviations from the basic 60/20/20 to the transition and esp the tippet section, mostly.

Probably as a bass fisher you already have much of what you need to tie your own or doctor up a factory leader. You don't need special fly-leader material; I use Trilene XT a filler spool of each diameter will last you a long time. You can mix and match brands too, just pay attention to diameters.

I'm sure there are good factory leaders out there too I just couldn't recommend any out of sheer ignorance lol. But to do either you need to know at least two knots practice and they become easy: Nail Knot (attaching butt to fly-line), Surgeon's Knot (adjoining lines of diff diameters).

As you cast, watch for caster's knots some call them wind knots lol. It's an overhand knot caused by the leader running into itself on the cast and they severely weaken your leader. These will be with you for a while, til you get the hang of things. You'll get good with Surgeon's Knots regardless.

Bluegill Hunt with my son. He uses short 3 to 6ft leaders for ease of handling.

Bass too! This 19"er was spotted under a footbridge at one of our FF camps. I gave an impromptu lesson in "bass filching" with a borrowed 9wt and a saltwater "eel fly" -essentially a plastic worm made without plastic lol. Fished it JUST like I'd sight fish a plastic worm: The drop, the pause, the twitch, ...Thump! It put on a great show too, making three head-shaking jumps. Very cool. Black eel flies were tied with fervor the rest of the week lol.

Bass leaders are simpler, but then again your aren't going to be using a 4 or 5wt. Think of a 6wt as akin to finesse spinning. For LMs, esp in cover, you are talking about an 8wt minimum. First to pitch a BIG fly (can't be too big) and second to winch em out of cover. My bass leaders for such a rig are two or three parts since they tend to be short, with tippets of .014 to .017.

[farmpond1]

I've very quickly browsed the responses so forgive me if I missed something that's already been suggested.  First, does the line weight match the rod weight?  It should be close.  One weight higher is acceptable most of the time.  Second, are you using level line?  It casts poorly.  For distance, I'd go with a weight forward or shooting taper fly line.  Third, be sure to let the line straighten out and load the rod some on the backcast before beginning the forward cast.  A weak backcast will also result in a weak forward cast. 

[bmadd]

The line does match and is a wf. I have noticed some improvement in my last two outings after making sure my forward and back casts ended more abruptly and that my grip was correct. Also, I'm using my arm more and not my wrist.

Thanks for the advice on the leaders and tippets Paul.

[firefightn15]

This site: http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/contents.shtml that rebel angler posted is great reading for beginniner fly fishing.

[burleytog]

Bystanders call the ammalamz when I break out the fly rod.  One person thought I was having a seizure.

Thusly, my fly rod has been in it's case for the last three years.

[bmadd]

ammalamz  ;D

[Dan:]

Bystanders call the ammalamz when I break out the fly rod. One person thought I was having a seizure.

Thusly, my fly rod has been in it's case for the last three years.

HAHAHAHA. I'm still chasing something worthy of a picture on the fly but I'm slowly getting better each time out. I'm going to try to catch a snakehead on the fly this summer.