Handling mudfish

[BassinSoldier]

On another note...aren't Tilapia a non-native invasive species?  So what's the problem with mudfish preying on an invasive species that can terrorize bass in smaller bodies of water during their spawn?

[J Francho]

The fact of the matter is that bowfin thrive in conditions that marginally support bass. Bowfin have been around A LOT longer than bass. They've been able to survive despite the success of bass. If you have to remove a bowfin from a small pond in order to improve the bass fishery there, I have no problem with it. While your at it, remove the crappie too, they pose a much larger risk to the bass. To say that all bowfin should be immediately killed is stupid and counter intuitive to conservation efforts.

[Catt]

Get your facts correct  

No evidence supports the Earth or Bow Fins being 2 ½ millions years old

No human can say for fact Bow Fins were on earth before bass

I have personally worked with Wildlife & Fisheries agencies to totally remove all bow fins that had over populated bodies of water.

I have witnessed this myth on several other smaller bodies of water in Texas, Louisiana, & Mississippi.  

[fourbizz]

Catt, and i dont mean this sarcastically, but can you provide any reading done by fisheries biologists that contradict the "let them live" group?

Also, there is much more evidence that the earth is indeed 4.5billion years old, than there is that it is 6,000. :-X

I'm all about evidence and fact.

[Muddy]

I believe that the 6,000 year old number is biblically based. I am with the scientific evidence of 4.5 billion years also.

The research seems to point to controlled culling instead of random and wholesale killing of all bowfin, that would be tragic for many bodies of water, because they are in the upperend of the feeding pyramid.

[Catt]

What evidence proves the earth to 4.5 million years old?

The theory of carbon dating and the formulas used have been proven to be wrong.

The skeleton remains purported to be extinct dinosaurs has be proven to be assembled wrong with many of the bones used to complete the skeleton produced by man.

True science always agrees with observable evidence and there is no observable evidence of this theory.

Another example of the complete removal of a species is Great Snakehead (Channidae); eat game fish and have no predators to they can overcrowd a body of water and harm native species.

If someone has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building private lakes & marshes for bass fishing y'all would propose to just let invasive aquatic species remain unchecked?

For farther reading I suggest United States Department of Agriculture's National Agricultural Library and look up Aquatic Species.

Also try

Department of Interior

Fish and Wildlife Service

Injurious Wildlife Species

[Muddy]

Hey Tom: I am not a fisheries expert, just posted some readings, I have no strong opinion either way

Creationist follwoers have been discredited all palentholgy, based on a few errors. This would be like discrediting the space program, based on the Appolo Accident, it is the vast amount of correct material. I will not disrespect a creationist views, but I belive in Evolution and the possibility of the big bang. \

Carbon tested has not been the stanrd for a long itme, radio wetrics, and the study of the earth as an enity of this solar system has proven more reliable.The earth is way more than 6000 years, the Bible is not the only historical evidence for all of us. I respect those who it is. I will go with science here, there is good scientific proff that the earth is much older than 6000 years.

Here is some stuff about it for the US Geological Society

AGE OF THE EARTH

So far scientists have not found a way to determine the exact age of the Earth directly from Earth rocks because Earth's oldest rocks have been recycled and destroyed by the process of plate tectonics. If there are any of Earth's primordial rocks left in their original state, they have not yet been found. Nevertheless, scientists have been able to determine the probable age of the Solar System and to calculate an age for the Earth by assuming that the Earth and the rest of the solid bodies in the Solar System formed at the same time and are, therefore, of the same age.

The ages of Earth and Moon rocks and of meteorites are measured by the decay of long-lived radioactive isotopes of elements that occur naturally in rocks and minerals and that decay with half lives of 700 million to more than 100 billion years to stable isotopes of other elements. These dating techniques, which are firmly grounded in physics and are known collectively as radiometric dating, are used to measure the last time that the rock being dated was either melted or disturbed sufficiently to rehomogenize its radioactive elements.

Click on the image to see a graphical representation of geologic time

[344K]

Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake (4.03 Ga) and the Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland (3.7 to 3.8 Ga), but well-studied rocks nearly as old are also found in the Minnesota River Valley and northern Michigan (3.5-3.7 billion years), in Swaziland (3.4-3.5 billion years), and in Western Australia (3.4-3.6 billion years). [see Editor's Note.] These ancient rocks have been dated by a number of radiometric dating methods and the consistency of the results give scientists confidence that the ages are correct to within a few percent. An interesting feature of these ancient rocks is that they are not from any sort of "primordial crust" but are lava flows and sediments deposited in shallow water, an indication that Earth history began well before these rocks were deposited. In Western Australia, single zircon crystals found in younger sedimentary rocks have radiometric ages of as much as 4.3 billion years, making these tiny crystals the oldest materials to be found on Earth so far. The source rocks for these zircon crystals have not yet been found. The ages measured for Earth's oldest rocks and oldest crystals show that the Earth is at least 4.3 billion years in age but do not reveal the exact age of Earth's formation. The best age for the Earth (4.54 Ga) is based on old, presumed single-stage leads coupled with the Pb ratios in troilite from iron meteorites, specifically the Canyon Diablo meteorite. In addition, mineral grains (zircon) with U-Pb ages of 4.4 Ga have recently been reported from sedimentary rocks in west-central Australia. The Moon is a more primitive planet than Earth because it has not been disturbed by plate tectonics; thus, some of its more ancient rocks are more plentiful. Only a small number of rocks were returned to Earth by the six Apollo and three Luna missions. These rocks vary greatly in age, a reflection of their different ages of formation and their subsequent histories. The oldest dated moon rocks, however, have ages between 4.4 and 4.5 billion years and provide a minimum age for the formation of our nearest planetary neighbor. Thousands of meteorites, which are fragments of asteroids that fall to Earth, have been recovered. These primitive objects provide the best ages for the time of formation of the Solar System. There are more than 70 meteorites, of different types, whose ages have been measured using radiometric dating techniques. The results show that the meteorites, and therefore the Solar System, formed between 4.53 and 4.58 billion years ago. The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively. Scientists have used this approach to determine the time required for the isotopes in the Earth's oldest lead ores, of which there are only a few, to evolve from its primordial composition, as measured in uranium-free phases of iron meteorites, to its compositions at the time these lead ores separated from their mantle reservoirs. These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent. To be precise, this age represents the last time that lead isotopes were homogeneous througout the inner Solar System and the time that lead and uranium was incorporated into the solid bodies of the Solar System. The age of 4.54 billion years found for the Solar System and Earth is consistent with current calculations of 11 to 13 billion years for the age of the Milky Way Galaxy (based on the stage of evolution of globular cluster stars) and the age of 10 to 15 billion years for the age of the Universe (based on the recession of distant galaxies).

For additional information on this subject, see G. Brent Dalrymple's The Age of the Earth, published by the Stanford University Press (Stanford, Calif.) in 1991 (492 p.).

Previous || Contents || Next

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This page is URL: <http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html>

Last updated July 9, 2007 (akr)

Maintained by Publications Services

   I know there is strong probility you will not accept this, but their is a lot of very strong evidence that the earth is millions of years old,

[bocabasser]

i fish with a guy who has one of those arc dehookers, and he has it strictly for mudfish. when i fish, i can usually tell a mudfish bite from a bass bite and simply let the mud spit it out.

[Catt]

AGE OF THE EARTH

So far scientists have not found a way to determine the exact age of the Earth directly from Earth rocks because Earth's oldest rocks have been recycled and destroyed by the process of plate tectonics. If there are any of Earth's primordial rocks left in their original state, they have not yet been found. Nevertheless, scientists have been able to determine the probable age of the Solar System and to calculate an age for the Earth by assuming that the Earth and the rest of the solid bodies in the Solar System formed at the same time and are, therefore, of the same age.

Total contradiction  

This is a subject that can not be proved one way or the other  

[Muddy]

Thats cool Tom, I respect your point of view, even when your wrong

Dominick

[Glenn]

So this topic has gone from "How do I release a Bowfin" to "How old is the Earth"?

*shakes head* Only on BassResource.

Let's keep this on topic and focus on how to release a Bowfin.  If you wish to discuss the age of the Earth or Casey Kasem, then please start another thread.

As far as my take on killing them - they're a non-native species that are disrupting ecosystems.  I'm good with whatever the game department decides what to with them.

[Olebiker]

As far as my take on killing them - they're a non-native species that are disrupting ecosystems.

Glenn, I think that bowfin are native to North America.  I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

[J Francho]

They are a native species, please stop spreading incorrect information.  Care and handling for release is similar to large Esox spp, though they considerably more resistant to the stress of handling than the pike family.  Their swim bladder is used as a secondary breathing apparatus, and they sometimes "sink" upon release, rather than swim away.  They are ill tempered in the boat, and will bite, so use of a fish grip might aid.  I usually just unhook and release them in the water.  My largest bowfin weighed at just over 11 lbs.

[J Francho]

Just so we have it straight in ID'ing these guys:

Northern snakehead ARE an invasive species.  Whether they will destroy an ecosystem is debatable.  In most cases, a snakehead should be killed and reported to whatever environmental office for your state.

Perhaps its snakeheads that we getting mixed up here.

[Olebiker]

They are ill tempered in the boat, and will bite, so use of a fish grip might aid.

I bought one of these just for bowfin:

[Muddy]

No, I think we are all on the same page and especially Catt, and know the difference between mudfish/bowfin and snake heads

[pokey]

technically bass are non native

[Olebiker]

technically bass are non native

How's that?

[pokey]

my lakes and ponds book put out by Ct. Dep says they were brought over to the americas from europe. Brookies, sunfish, pickeral,bullhead are the only "true"native species. Book says the pickeral was the apex predator till bass were introduced. not trying to start a flame war, just throwing out some reliable info i read.

[J Francho]

That's incorrect.  Bass have been introduced into non endemic waters around the country, and into places as far west as California, as well as Africa and Japan.  But they definitely did not come from Europe.  I think you are confusing the German strain Brown Trout with bass.  BTW, bass are sunfish, belonging to the Centrarchid family.

[Olebiker]

my lakes and ponds book put out by Ct. Dep says they were brought over to the americas from europe. Brookies, sunfish, pickeral,bullhead are the only "true"native species. Book says the pickeral was the apex predator till bass were introduced. not trying to start a flame war, just throwing out some reliable info i read.

Would you be able to provide the specific citation?  Several university biology sites I have checked say that largemouth bass are native to North America.

[pokey]

just reread. I was mistaken to a degree. I got confused with the trout. But the bass were a southern species originally, later introduced to northern climates(massachusetts).Let me rephrase..... bass were nonnative to connecticut originally.

[Pencil Pusher]

my lakes and ponds book put out by Ct. Dep says they were brought over to the americas from europe. Brookies, sunfish, pickeral,bullhead are the only "true"native species. Book says the pickeral was the apex predator till bass were introduced. not trying to start a flame war, just throwing out some reliable info i read.

There are many other fish that are native to North America other than the one's you listed. The Black Basses are endemic to North America east of the Rocky Mountains.

The two species imported from Europe with the biggest impact are The German Brown Trout and the Common Carp.

[Certified Public Angler]

hmm agree to disagree...

[J Francho]

hmm agree to disagree...

to what?  Too many topics getting discussed here.  Time for a new thread... :-X