I don't do drugs or alcohol

[FishingBuds]

Self righteousness lol what a joke, its simple you drinkers have just not had anything traumatic happen to you that involves this stuff, if you did you'd be singing a different tune.

I for one will never be afraid of stating my thoughts on this stupid crap.

Its Stupid and ignorant plain and simple

I believe alcohol and drug threads are the worst, they even beat politics by a mile

[fourbizz]

OR, we have had something horrible happen involving alcohol, but we are not so naive as to blame a drink for the poor decisions or lack of willpower of the PEOPLE responsible.

But, along the same lines, my best friend died in a car crash. Ever since then, I hate Ford trucks and any of the idiots that drive them. They are cowards, traitors, hypocrites, rapists, murderers, holocaust perpetrators, and devil worshippers. I cant associate with anyone who would choose to drive one.

[BrianinMD]

FishingBuds, I enjoy a cold beer periodically. But I guess to you losing loved family members, or watching relationships go south because of it. Including right now with a good friends marriage, is not traumatic enough. The point of it being an inanimate object still holds true, its not the alcohols fault, its the choice of the person using it. Life is full of heartache and chooses to be made. Blaming inanimate objects is never a justifiable response.

[bilgerat]

I've ingested just about every substance known to man. The late 70's through the 80's is a blur to me. When I had my fill of it all, I walked away. I don't miss any of it now.

How is it I was able to walk away while others get tangled ? I have no idea. I saw my brother in law struggle with addiction big time. Then one day out of the blue he wakes up and decides enough is enough. He checked himself into a hard core rehab and disappeared for 6 months. That was 10 years ago and he's clean to this day AND he doesn't preach to anyone. I have all of the respect in the world for him. My father in law was an alcoholic. I went to the tow yard to get his things out of the car after he passed out and ran his car through the woods. He lived through that one, but you wouldn't know it by how the car looked.

I see both sides of the argument. Personally, I hate F* ing drunks - not those who can handle their liquor but obnoxious drunks. I never saw a stoner smash a beer mug into someones head, I saw drunks do it twice and it's not a pretty sight. Stoners can be annoying but they don't get up in your face with their lizard breath and beer muscles.

If you can handle your vices without intruding onto other's good times, more power to you. If you can't, maybe it's time to give it up.

[fourbizz]

The coalition for reason is gaining strength.

[Tin]

No caffeine Chris?  ;D

[Triton21]

I've ingested just about every substance known to man. The late 70's through the 80's is a blur to me. When I had my fill of it all, I walked away. I don't miss any of it now.

How is it I was able to walk away while others get tangled ? I have no idea. I saw my brother in law struggle with addiction big time. Then one day out of the blue he wakes up and decides enough is enough. He checked himself into a hard core rehab and disappeared for 6 months. That was 10 years ago and he's clean to this day AND he doesn't preach to anyone. I have all of the respect in the world for him. My father in law was an alcoholic. I went to the tow yard to get his things out of the car after he passed out and ran his car through the woods. He lived through that one, but you wouldn't know it by how the car looked.

I see both sides of the argument. Personally, I hate F* ing drunks - not those who can handle their liquor but obnoxious drunks. I never saw a stoner smash a beer mug into someones head, I saw drunks do it twice and it's not a pretty sight. Stoners can be annoying but they don't get up in your face with their lizard breath and beer muscles.

If you can handle your vices without intruding onto other's good times, more power to you. If you can't, maybe it's time to give it up.

I did the same thing in the'60s(after I came home from Viet Nam) and '70s. I lived through that period. I still have a Rum and Coke(one) a couple times week in the privacy of my home. What I do is my business and if people don't like it they can KMA.

Kelley

[bilgerat]

Allow me to clarify

I've ingested just about every substance known to man.

That was not meant as a boast. I'm not particularly proud of it, it is what it is. If I could have just half of that time and money back, who knows ? Then again I am the sum of all of my experiences good and bad.

[bilgerat]

Off topic, guilty as charged..

Hey Kelley, how's the hip coming along ?

[FishingBuds]

OR, we have had something horrible happen involving alcohol, but we are not so naive as to blame a drink for the poor decisions or lack of willpower of the PEOPLE responsible.

But, along the same lines, my best friend died in a car crash. Ever since then, I hate Ford trucks and any of the idiots that drive them. They are cowards, traitors, hypocrites, rapists, murderers, holocaust perpetrators, and devil worshippers. I cant associate with anyone who would choose to drive one.

you make a point by comparing a ford truck wreck to alcohol and drug abuse?  ;D

Are you gonna be one of the guys that convinces my son that one beer won't hurt?

Pot is mother nature, go ahead boy smoke it up its the safest drug there is.

> you have no clue on this stuff do you, I believe it shows in your response

[Glenn]

Fishingbuds - Fourbizz is simply making a point, and that's it.  No need to snap back at him.

[FishingBuds]

FishingBuds, I enjoy a cold beer periodically. But I guess to you losing loved family members, or watching relationships go south because of it. Including right now with a good friends marriage, is not traumatic enough. The point of it being an inanimate object still holds true, its not the alcohols fault, its the choice of the person using it. Life is full of heartache and chooses to be made. Blaming inanimate objects is never a justifiable response.

I was honest enough to tell you all up front, Im prejudice against this stuff.  so one beer or not, I've seen and been thru enough to hate it no matter and believe in all my soul that each tragic outcome only happened because of being high or intoxicating

[Glenn]

....besides, it's much easier to blame an inanimate object than take responsibility for one's actions.  :

[BrianinMD]

But why blame the inanimate object, and not the person who made the choice. The alcohol/drug didn't jump into the person on its own how is it responsible?

[Tin]

Agreed Glenn..what is responsibility and control? :

No offense but sometimes people are forced to go to painkillers and pot to be able to live a somewhat normal life. I got off the painkillers because they were doing nothing and destroying my body. I was taking 5-6 a day at one point after one of my operations just to be able to lie in bed.

It's sucks having to puke after every meal and sometimes for no reason multiple times a day (because four different types of anti-nausea medicine don't work and your esophagus and teeth are destroyed from the acid by age 20). Or having to roll into the fetal position for hours after everytime you eat because your intestines are blocked up from scar tissue and your entire digestive tract is spasming.

But I would much prefer the natural high from skiing or fishing. I had a two hour rush after a hockey game last week. Was the best I've felt in a while

[Triton21]

Off topic, guilty as charged..

Hey Kelley, how's the hip coming along ?

Great, Thanks for asking.  No pain but will be in a brace for 9 more weeks.

Kelley

[Glenn]

Well Tin, I think what you're trying to say is that addiction is not a choice.  And you're right, it's not.  Whether it's medically necessary or accidental, addiction sucks.

But as a rule, most people have options where they can take control of their addiction and find their way out of it, usually with the help of family and friends.

Now no doubt there are exceptions (for example required medication), but that doesn't negate that generally speaking, people have the ability to rid themselves of an addiction.  However, blaming the substance will not put them on that path, it only serves to prevent them from taking control of it.

[Tin]

Yes, sometimes it is forced. But as in most cases I'm sure the hardest thing to realize and come to terms with is that someone is addicted to something. I see people everyday at the liquor store buying a 30 pack a day or a bottle a day. The worst I have ever seen is a man who essentially drank himself to death by drinking a 1750 of Smirnoff for four straight days. He bought a case and we never saw him again. His wife came in and told us. It is depressing to see, what is worse is when they are using the state issued unemployment or disability cards.

We live in a world loaded with vices (I cannot function without my daily coffee) and at some level or another everyone has them. It just matters how much they control you.

[slonezp]

How is one "forced" to take painkillers and smoke pot? I don't know your situation Tin, but unless there is a gun pointed to your head no one is "forced" to do anything.

Don't drink and drive, don't beat your wife and kids.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

its simple you drinkers have just not had anything traumatic happen to you that involves this stuff, if you did you'd be singing a different tune.

I'm glad you know my personal history. Oh wait, you don't. I've had a very close friend die in a DUI from some dude that was beyond drunk. My cousin launched himself through his windshield driving while drunk. My brother almost died in a hospital from drinking excessively.  While I was on active duty I saw several people get severely hurt in situations where alcohol is involved.

A bottle of liquid can't hurt you. You choosing to drink excessively can. You can die as a result from drinking too much water. Does that mean water is bad and I should hate to think that it exists?

A gun cannot hurt somebody. Nor can a bullet. People can hurt people with guns though. Does that mean the inanimate gun is bad? Or is it the jackass that shoots somebody?

I can probably go on and on with other similar examples. If you don't like booze, thats fine. I can't blame you. But to blame the drink instead of blaming the person abusing the drink is a bit silly.

[FishingBuds]

You people that educate others as well as the kids that this stuff is innocent just blows me away, right now you even play it down, oh its an object, the person is at fault.

making your comments about its easy to blame the object doesn't fool me one bit, but sadly your comments helps others believe liquor and drugs are harmless.

[Glenn]

Never said it was harmless.

To put it another way, a bottle of beer sitting on the shelf never caused a death.

[skunked_again]

....besides, it's much easier to blame an inanimate object than take responsibility for one's actions. :

QFT

[B-Dozer]

Can't wait til it warms up a bit and we can argue about FISHIN'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[slonezp]

....besides, it's much easier to blame an inanimate object than take responsibility for one's actions. :

Hasn't the medical field made us believe that? Saying addiction is a disease. Not my fault. I have a disease.