Better holster that finger!

[burleytog]

The parents of a student in the Houston area are stunned after their daughter was suspended and accused of making a terroristic threat after she was spotted making the shape of a gun with her hand.

The girl says she and her friends were pretending to be police officers. The schools says the teacher feared for her life.

Sonia Azad reports.

http://www.kvue.com/news/state/Texas-student-suspended-for-finger-gun-91514929.html

HOUSTON (KTRK) --  A 13-year-old girl was suspended from school after she was accused of threatening her teacher. Her family says it's a misunderstanding under a zero tolerance policy.

Bleyl Middle School student Taylor Trostle and her parents say it's a classroom game that got her kicked out of school, and now has her labeled as a "terrorist."

"I was shocked because it just seems ludicrous and appalling," Bleyl Middle School student Taylor Trostle's mother, Kristin Trostle, said.

When Kristin Trostle and her fiancee got a phone call from the principal's office at her daughter's school, they knew something was wrong. But the story they got blew them away.

"I mean, terroristic threat, to me that's a serious statement," Kristin Trostle said. "That's one of the most serious things you could say to somebody."

Taylor was wearing an NYPD shirt at school. She says in the last moments of math class, she and some friends were pretending to be police officers.

"I was shooting the markers at the front of the board," Taylor Trostle said. "It was just like this and I was like 'pow pow' and then she just turned around."

Taylor was sent to the principal's office and immediately suspended for three days. Her write up says the finger gun was pointed in the teacher's direction.

"That was considered a terroristic threat because the teacher feared for her life," Kristin Trostle said.

According to Cy-Fair ISD's code of conduct, a terroristic threat is a level four violation, which is on par with assault, public lewdness, or selling alcohol or drugs at school. Any threat to a teacher falls under a 'zero tolerance policy.'

"Now she's got a very serious mark on her record and she's labeled," Kristin Trostle said.

Cy-Fair ISD denied our repeated requests for comment, so did Taylor Trostle's 7th grade math teacher. Now- Taylor Trostle says she's being mocked at school, for a silly game that got her kicked out.

"They all say that I'm gonna kill somebody, and...they know that I wouldn't do that," she said.

Her mother wants the school district to take a hard look at policies because she believes can tarnish the reputation of an honor roll student like Taylor.

"Really and truly make an honest decision -- is this a legitimate threat, do i really feel threatened by what this child just said?" Kristin Trostle said.

(Copyright ©2010 KTRK-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7392273

[=Matt 5.0=]

Maybe her nails were really gross?  :-?

[firefightn15]

It's sadly humorous how when it comes to policing policy, that either it is not done or it's over done.  There almost never seems to be common sense involved anymore.  Maybe her finger wasn't registered. 8-)

[Glenn]

Please define "zero tolerance policy".  What part of that is confusing?

I'm not defending the school's actions.  But if they've laid out a "zero tolerance policy" in advance, then buyer beware.

[Stringjam]

I know I would be absolutely terrified if a 13-year-old girl (and honor roll student) pointed her finger at the board.

If I was the teacher in that situation, I would probably jump out of the window - screaming in a visceral frenzy for fear of my life.      

[Dan:]

Please define "zero tolerance policy". What part of that is confusing?

I'm not defending the school's actions. But if they've laid out a "zero tolerance policy" in advance, then buyer beware.

But common sense has to be involved. If this violated the "zero tolerance" then what else can? Where is the line? Some sort of common sense judgment has to come in to play.

[Glenn]

Well I think that's the problem.  One person's "common sense" is not another's.  Once you inject subjective judgement into the policy, it makes it difficult to draw a line.  With a strict "no tolerance" policy, it's black and white - no ambiguity or gray areas.

[Stasher1]

Well I think that's the problem. One person's "common sense" is not another's. Once you inject subjective judgement into the policy, it makes it difficult to draw a line. With a strict "no tolerance" policy, it's black and white - no ambiguity or gray areas.

Is it gray or grey? I think we may have to go to burley for a ruling on this matter...   

[burleytog]

Well I think that's the problem. One person's "common sense" is not another's. Once you inject subjective judgement into the policy, it makes it difficult to draw a line. With a strict "no tolerance" policy, it's black and white - no ambiguity or gray areas.

Is it gray or grey? I think we may have to go to burley for a ruling on this matter...

Grey became the established British spelling in the 20th century, pace Dr. Johnson and others, and it is but a minor variant in American English, according to dictionaries. Canadians tend to prefer grey. The non-cognate greyhound was never grayhound. Both Grey and Gray are found in proper names everywhere in the English-speaking world. Americans tend to use "gray" in reference to the color and "grey" as the adjective.

[Dan:]

Well I think that's the problem. One person's "common sense" is not another's. Once you inject subjective judgement into the policy, it makes it difficult to draw a line. With a strict "no tolerance" policy, it's black and white - no ambiguity or gray areas.

But then you get people kicking kids out of school for pretending to be police and a grown up who claims to be "scared for her life" because someone pointed a finger at her... :-?

I like to hope that reasonably intelligent (or even dumb, but trained) people can react to certain facts of a situation better than a pre-written policy. Reasonable rules + judgment HAS to be better than suspending kids for stuff like this. I think "zero tolerance" policies are enacted so administrators don't have to take blame from parents or teachers if they have to make a tough decision or make an unpopular one.

[1inStripes]

Well I think that's the problem. One person's "common sense" is not another's. Once you inject subjective judgement into the policy, it makes it difficult to draw a line. With a strict "no tolerance" policy, it's black and white - no ambiguity or gray areas.

Yeah theres no way common sense could helped to be used in drawing that line of black and white. I would have hated to have went to school the next day after a baseball game and talking about some bomb I hit off the opposing team and getting kicked out of school for scaring the some teacher if they walked by and overheard me talking about "bombs".

[burleytog]

Zero tolerance = zero intelligence

School administrators are paid to draw lines and differentiate between black & white.  Not institute policies that enable them to refrain from making judgement calls.

[Dan:]

Well I think that's the problem. One person's "common sense" is not another's. Once you inject subjective judgement into the policy, it makes it difficult to draw a line. With a strict "no tolerance" policy, it's black and white - no ambiguity or gray areas.

Yeah theres no way common sense could helped to be used in drawing that line of black and white. I would have hated to have went to school the next day after a baseball game and talking about some bomb I hit off the opposing team and getting kicked out of school for scaring the some teacher if they walked by and overheard me talking about "bombs".

or even jokingly say something like "bust a cap" in the hallway...not that I would, but I know some people think it's funny to use outdated slang...or quote a line from a movie...

[Glenn]

Problem is, some parent will sue the school district for disciplining Jr. when somebody else's Jr. wasn't for seemingly the same thing.

"No tolerance" policies are designed to prevent lawsuits.  Stupid, yes.  Bizarre, dumb, and sometimes harsh results? Indeed.  But they're a result of this sue-happy world we live in, like it or not.

Again, I'm not defending the school district in any way whatsoever.  Just trying to shed some light onto the reasoning behind "no tolerance" policies. 

Making exceptions opens the door to lawsuits. Therefore, they are incredibly strict.

[Dan:]

ok, but instead of using a stupid work around to prevent overzealous litigation, why don't we address the problem of overzealous litigation itself? I know it's not realistic, I'm just saying that some things are done in a really stupid and messy way.

[J Francho]

"Zero tolerance" is simply a euphemism for laziness.

[preach4bass]

I think "zero tolerance" policies are enacted so administrators don't have to take blame from parents or teachers if they have to make a tough decision or make an unpopular one.

Sounds like that school system is in desperate need of a few leaders instead of just policy makers. :-/

[done]

ok, but instead of using a stupid work around to prevent overzealous litigation, why don't we address the problem of overzealous litigation itself? I know it's not realistic, I'm just saying that some things are done in a really stupid and messy way.

<at the risk of crossing the politics line...> This will not happen while we have a country that is run by lawyers.

The other problem with addressing it is, if you restrict litigation, you will inadvertently hurt folks who have a legitimate case. it is like when they talk about capping medical malpractice cases. There are a LOT of bad cases, but then you have cases like my aunt. She went in for a hysterectomy, the butcher surgeon she had cut her bladder open and did some other damage and just closed her up (did NOT fix anything). The damage it did before they went back in for a second operation, nearly killed her and kept her out of work for 6+ months. The lawsuit was the only way she kept from losing her home.

While I definitely agree the sue-happy society needs to stop, I cannot fathom how to go about it without harming the right for legitimate suits.

[fishfordollars]

Well it's Houston. Most 11-13 year olds just pull out the real deal.

[Dan:]

I think "zero tolerance" policies are enacted so administrators don't have to take blame from parents or teachers if they have to make a tough decision or make an unpopular one.

Sounds like that school system is in desperate need of a few leaders instead of just policy makers. :-/

Yes, and the same is true in many different fields.

[farmpond1]

As to whether suspension was justified, it's difficult to say but it could very well be that the girl was making threatening gestures at the teacher.  Everyone, especially parents, want to rally around the child and say "little Suzy" or "little Johnny" couldn't possibly do such a thing.  Well, there are plenty of little ruffians out there with bambi eyes.  I wasn't there but it's very easy for a kid to just claim "I was just shooting at the markers on the board."  Again, suspension may be a bit harsh but zero tolerance doesn't (or shouldn't) mean, "well, sometimes we'll allow it and sometimes we won't."  JMHO

[ichigo]

future cho from va tech indicent

[RWHusker.]

Remember we've only heard the girl's mother side of the story.  The teacher/admin may have something totally different to say.

[RickG NVA]

the teacher/admin won't be saying or reporting anything due to the school districts councel most likely telling them to not say anything for fear of a law suit being bought upon them.

[lilfish]

I guess its true what they say "the meek shall inherit the earth"