Work ethic

[firefightn15]

From that perspective I see what your saying.  That sucks.

[bilgerat]

No one wants to do actual work anymore. Everyone wants to be a supervisor, boss, organizer, consultant, etc. They wanna tell everyone else how to work without doing any themselves. Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

Most larger companies are top heavy with people who do no tangible work. They produce nothing and they contribute nothing. Yet they're well versed in telling everyone else how to be more efficient. These are the ones generating memos that no one reads and implementing policies that make no sense.

This started a long time ago IMO. I remember one of the guidance counselors in high school saying in so many words that anyone that didn't attend college was doomed, and I quote, "To be a grease monkey", a derogatory term for a mechanic. That cracks me up to this day. I see that attitude all of the time. Not all, but many people with a degree have an arrogance about them I can't stand. They have a misguided sense of entitlement that they think earns them a spot in the front of the line. College is fine, in fact I'd love to see my daughters attend one day. But it was never meant to be a get out of work free pass.

[Stasher1]

From that perspective I see what your saying. That sucks.

In 2005 I left a job in B'ham making in the mid-50's a year and moved to Atlanta so the wife could work. I've watched my annual salary decrease every year since. > The jobs that were paying in the low to mid 40's a year ago, now pay in the low 20's. For many people, myself included, taking any of the available jobs means a step down in "salary" from unemployment.

Many businesses are using the poor economy as an excuse to offer sub-standard wages to desperate, experienced workers. Their options are either turn down the job and try to squeak by until their UI runs out, or take the job and go in the hole every month because they can't pay their bills and feed their families on $10 hr. This isn't a matter of "poor work ethics". The problems go much deeper than that.

[firefightn15]

I understand what your saying also bilgerat and I agree.  I have no problem with college and would hope that any one who gets the chance goes.  But the degree does not give anyone entitlement.  I'm 43 and a good share of the time it seems that people my age and younger do not want physical labor when they have a degree burning a whole in their pocket.  This is not a diss on furthering education, only that it sometimes produces.....how'd you put it, too many chiefs and not enough injuns.  "Your kidding, take a job that gets my hands dirty?  I have a degree!

[SirSnookalot]

I find that term " grease monkey" to be highly derogative and I salute men or women in that profession, especially if you can start your own business and control your destiny, back alley mechanics can't make it any as there is a higher degree of sophistication required these days.

As far as seniority goes, imo 2 people with same credentials with the major difference being time on the job, I would look for the employee with the better attitude, ethics and potential.

As mentioned above these corporations are taking advantage of the present economic conditions, back in the 90's signing bonus' were very common, not so so today. Capitalism is great if you're Warren Buffet or Bill Gates , you are nothing but chattel at the whim of some one higher up in the system. The object of any Corporation is to make money for their shareholders and if they can make the same $$ with less employees that's what they are going to do, they do not care about job creation. No matter if you make 10k a year or 1 million a year there is no job security.

[done]

I find that term " grease monkey" to be highly derogative and I salute men or women in that profession,

Salute!? I darn near worship an honest mechanic with decent prices who does the job they say WHEN they say they will do it.

It is easier to dig in your yard and find a gold brick than it is such a mechanic in this area. 

Like other work areas though there are plenty of them who do crap work, don't stand by their work, or keep your car for 3 weeks to complete an oil change.

I hear what y'all are saying on child care too. I got 4 little ones and my wife stays home because we simply could not make enough to pay for 4 kids in childcare. I am extremely blessed in that I have a career that gives us more than enough money to allow her to stay home without financial ruin. Not everyone is so fortunate.

It is one of the reason I love the recent influx is legal central American immigrants. I have had a number of Costa Ricans and mexicans working on my home. These guys come here 8 am, work till 3 am, and they WORK. Not 1 guys works and 5 watch him, they all worked and got a TON of stuff done and done well. I think an influx of that type of work ethic into American society is a great thing.

[Helluva_Engineer]

It's WAY too easy to get a college degree nowadays and a lot of them are absolutely worthless, but people with worthless college degrees sure as heck won't take hourly jobs. But even in the right position its hard to do a good job sometimes when you feel like you aren't getting enough information or support to do your job. There are certain aspects of my job right now that I hate related to that. I do my best, but still feel like I'm getting nowhere and don't have anyone that can give me solid answers/direction. I'm going to stick it out and hope that it at least shows that I'm putting effort in, but I can see where people in similar situations to myself would bolt.

And to respond to the generally negative thoughts on consultants, it is most often cheaper than to have your own in house people. Right now, I have projects going at 3 different facilities and am only being paid by them for the hours I apply. As opposed to an onsite person who would be committing hours to overhead. That's why it's cheaper and why consultants are used. Of course if they still have the on site people, that's just plain silly on their part.

[firefightn15]

It's WAY too easy to get a college degree nowadays and a lot of them are absolutely worthless, but people with worthless college degrees sure as heck won't take hourly jobs. But even in the right position its hard to do a good job sometimes when you feel like you aren't getting enough information or support to do your job. There are certain aspects of my job right now that I hate related to that. I do my best, but still feel like I'm getting nowhere and don't have anyone that can give me solid answers/direction. I'm going to stick it out and hope that it at least shows that I'm putting effort in, but I can see where people in similar situations to myself would bolt.

And to respond to the generally negative thoughts on consultants, it is most often cheaper than to have your own in house people. Right now, I have projects going at 3 different facilities and am only being paid by them for the hours I apply. As opposed to an onsite person who would be committing hours to overhead. That's why it's cheaper and why consultants are used. Of course if they still have the on site people, that's just plain silly on their part.

H_E, I guess for my part I was referring to a specific project in my county.  Per Homeland Security agencies across the US are required to have there communications systems upgraded to be what is called P-25 compliant.  Each agency is soley responsible for this.  In my county, we spent tens of thousands of dollars for a consulting firm to tell our communications tech and us, the end users, what we already knew; except that they were incorrect in some aspects and almost misdirected us in there recommendations about our needs.  I do understand that there are times that it is cost effective to farm these studies out.

[clipper]

When I was a kid (15) my Dad bought a lot on Lake Lanier.  I helped him work there developing it and hauled 12" concrete blocks, carried buckets of concrete, dug footings, cleared brush and a lot of other things.  One day I asked him why we had to work all the time.  He said, "I work because I love to work, I'll be happy if I can just teach you how."  I'm nearly 65 now and finally understand what he meant.  I also appreciate what he did for me, as the capacity to work has served me as well as my college education.   

[done]

It's WAY too easy to get a college degree nowadays and a lot of them are absolutely worthless, but people with worthless college degrees sure as heck won't take hourly jobs. But even in the right position its hard to do a good job sometimes when you feel like you aren't getting enough information or support to do your job. There are certain aspects of my job right now that I hate related to that. I do my best, but still feel like I'm getting nowhere and don't have anyone that can give me solid answers/direction. I'm going to stick it out and hope that it at least shows that I'm putting effort in, but I can see where people in similar situations to myself would bolt.

And to respond to the generally negative thoughts on consultants, it is most often cheaper than to have your own in house people. Right now, I have projects going at 3 different facilities and am only being paid by them for the hours I apply. As opposed to an onsite person who would be committing hours to overhead. That's why it's cheaper and why consultants are used. Of course if they still have the on site people, that's just plain silly on their part.

H_E, I guess for my part I was referring to a specific project in my county. Per Homeland Security agencies across the US are required to have there communications systems upgraded to be what is called P-25 compliant. Each agency is soley responsible for this. In my county, we spent tens of thousands of dollars for a consulting firm to tell our communications tech and us, the end users, what we already knew; except that they were incorrect in some aspects and almost misdirected us in there recommendations about our needs. I do understand that there are times that it is cost effective to farm these studies out.

Depends on the type of consultant too. There are the "Bobs" from Office space. Which give all the consultants a bad name. Then there are types like what I do. We go to clients, conduct interviews and architect and build IT solutions for them. The technology we work with, is expensive and training at the level we have is expensive, you throw in the experience and a company would pay a fortune to hire someone like me. In the long run it is much less expensive for them to bring me in for a project, mentor their folks, and get on out of there.

[Matt Fly]

The vast majority of parents don't use the everyday tools that are there to teach with when a child is of learning age.

     Its started at home.

    

[grimlin]

Its started at home.

I agree!!

[Pantera61]

Without going into to much detail, I had a life changing medical situation occur when I was 27.  I was born with the condition that caused it but it didn't become symptomatic until that time.

From 27 to 42, I had about 30 jobs, 2 of which were long term 4 years and 2 years.  I went to a technical school hoping I would be able to freelancer but even that didn't work out.

I was forced to go on permanent disability because it was difficult to find a job and when I could find work, the medical condition would flair up and out the door would be I.  I would trade my current situation to shovel ***** against the tide with a teaspoon for a dollar a day.

[firefightn15]

Without going into to much detail, I had a life changing medical situation occur when I was 27. I was born with the condition that caused it but it didn't become symptomatic until that time.

From 27 to 42, I had about 30 jobs, 2 of which were long term 4 years and 2 years. I went to a technical school hoping I would be able to freelancer but even that didn't work out.

I was forced to go on permanent disability because it was difficult to find a job and when I could find work, the medical condition would flair up and out the door would be I. I would trade my current situation to shovel crap against the tide with a teaspoon for a dollar a day.

I know your not looking for pity Pantera, but that sucks just the same.  In total seriousness, I think that would make you a great candidate for a high school motivational speaker.  Maybe it would give some kids the kick they need to understand what work ethic and the willingness to work really means.

[bilgerat]

Helluva, my apologies as far as the consultant thing goes. My consultant experience goes way back prior to my current career (diesel mechanic) when I worked for General Electric in the late 80's - early 90's. That's where I dealt with the "Office Space" class of consultants ;D It was back when they were ushering in that 'go team go' way of workplace thinking in an attempt to emulate what the Japanese were doing at the time, which was basically your life was centered around the company and you never, ever questioned authority.

Sorry to lump you in with "them".......