Slug Gun For Deer Question.

[Boett43]

Im looking to get my first deer rifle and im really interested in a Slug gun due to the fact most the areas i hunt are shotgun and bow only. Can a slug gun be accurate out to 100 yards? And also is the Recoil that Bad? Ive heard and read it can slam you pretty good. Thanks

[Catt]

Ithica Model 37 Deerslayer III deadly accurate out to 200 yards

http://www.ithacagun.com/deerslayer3.html

[VolFan]

As for the recoil, shotguns do give you a good push, but it's not as bad as the sharp crack of a large caliber deer rifle (30-06, 270, etc.).  If you don't have it tight to your shoulder, it will hit you in the face, so keep it tight.  For accuracy, if you get a rifle slug barrel or rifled choke tube, and rifle slugs or sabots, you shouldn't have a problem with hunitng accuracy out to 100 yds.  With a smoothbore and old fashioned slugs, I'd limit it to 50-75 yards.  A good low-power scope or aimpoint will make it much easier to be accurate.

[Lund Explorer]

The choice of a shotgun for a first gun for deer hunting is probably a fairly choice.  There's a pretty good selection of choices, from single shots, to pump guns, and auto loaders.

Depending on your budget, you can choose from a smooth bore with standard ammo, to the newer style rifled barrels that use the more accurate sabot shells.

You may also want to take this opportunity to look into seeing if you could find a shotgun with interchangeable barrels so the weapon could be used for ducks or upland game as well.

Now I'm sure not going to try to start an ugly argument here with Catt or anyone else, and the following link from Ithaca Arms backs up the claim. 

http://www.ithacagun.com/deerslayer3.html

But I've got my doubts.  As a certified range official with over 20 years experience hasn't shown me anyone yet who gets those kinds of results.  I think you'd be better off scaling back your expectations from such claims.

Even with a rifled barrel w/scope and sabot loads, I've found that the average hunter can see good results out to half that range.  Better accuracy, which is paramount when the goal is more than just "cutting paper", tells me that you can expect that range to get down to a more manageable 50-75 yards.  With practice.

[Venison]

I have the .870 Express with interchangeable barrels. I am not very confident past 50 yards. If I know I'm going to be hunting wide open spaces I take the .270.

[Catt]

A good shot in the wild 125 yds easy

[Boett43]

Catt im in love with that Deerslayer my grandpa has one but right now thats not in the budget lol. What are some of the top brands of shotguns out there?

[retiredbosn]

I love discussions on shotguns!!!!  Some of the shotguns I  used to have were more valuable than my bassboat (honestly that isn't bragging, you haven't seen my boat).  Anyway as far as it goes Mossberg makes the slugmaster barrel and packages them with their pump guns a lot.  The slugmaster is fully rifled, and handles sabot slugs just fine.  BTW if you can't obtain 4" groups at 200yds, sell the guns and give up, you will never hit a deer or anything else for that matter.  I would recommend getting a .22 rifle and doing alot of plinking, the .22 rounds are relatively cheap and can teach you alot about trigger and breath control and accuracy.  Today's slug guns can handle 200 yd accuracy of 4", with the technology available an "inaccurate gun" is typically an ill disciplined shooter.  There are several inexpensive models available, the Rem 870, the Mossberg 500 are two that come to mind that can be routinely found for around 200 bucks nib.   

You asked about recoil, gun writers will talk you to death about recoil.  There are more myths, tall tales and downright lies about recoil than anything else.  Recoil happens so fast that our bodies do not even have time to respond to it, a study done by university of texas is on www.chuckhawks.com .  Read it.  Anyway the things that affect recoil more than anything is stock design, straight stocked guns do a better job at directing the recoil into your shoulder.  IE a SXS shotgun feels harsher than an O/U due to stock design, sxs have a sharper drop.  Notice I said feel, as they both recoil the same amount.  Gas operated semi auto's feel less harsh because the recoil is broken down into three rearward pushed instead of one, how ever they recoil the same amount.  Recoil can be measured and this is something to think about a 12 guage shotgun shooting a slug has the same recoil energy as a .416 Rigby, which is close to 75ft lbs of energy. By comparison a 30-06 has 18-21ft lbs, depending on the load.  So in short a shotgun kicks like the proverbial mule.  The good news is that the shotgun kicks you slower, which is another aspect of felt recoil, how fast the gun recoils.  Rifles on average recoil faster than a shotgun which sometimes makes them feel like they are kicking you harder.  But in all honesty a 12 guage slug gun is going to kick, the best you can do is get a "lead sled" a gun sighting tool that takes the recoil instead of the shooter.  After getting the gun sighted in, limit your practice shots to just a couple an outing.  The last thing you want to develop is a flinch.  Good luck

[Lund Explorer]

Just to bring a little clarity into this subject, the following link shows the ballistic charts for Federal Slug Ammo.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/slug_compare.aspx

You will notice that the max range shown on this chart is 125yds.  The most important things I would concentrate on are the bullet drop as the range increases, and more humanely, the foot pounds of energy drop as the slug moves down range.

These shells, sighted in at 100yds shows the path of the slug dropping approx. 4" drop from the top of it's arc to the 125yd mark.  Any guess as to how high you would have to aim to lob the slug out to 200yds?  In the military, we called it plunging fire. 

These shells also show a drop of foot pound energy of about 36% by the time they get down to 125yds.  There is still enough energy to produce a clean quick kill, but I highly doubt that is the case at the advertised range of 200yds.

I also am rather dubious of the "3-4 Group" statement when the closest slug of any of the three shots in each group is approx. 3 1/2" from the bullseye.  One shot barely scores on a 10" ring which is what I'd call a miss.

All in all to anyone, unless your name is Crockett, I would suggest limiting yourself to a shorter range until you have done a lot of practice or practical shooting with any shotgun using slugs.

[retiredbosn]

I think I need to clarify my opinion on groups.  Bench rest groups are entirely different from field shooting.  Using a lead sled or something similar, you remove any shooter error, and therefore the groupings tighten up.  The drop of a slug is significant, however when snipers pick of someone at a 1000yds the drop of the bullet is close to 30ft, so the drop in a bench setting is irrelevant.  Personally I think of a slug gun like a 30/30, a good 100-150 yd weapon, the 150 side is dependent on ideal conditions with an expert shooter.  The problem is that most neophytes do not spend enough time at the range to become expert shooters, I know I'm not.  The important thing is to practice, practice, practice.  Another option would be one of the newer blackpowder guns.  Most states will allow blackpowder guns in shotgunning areas, the accuracy and improvements on these weapons are very significant over just a few years ago.  In fact some areas are making the new inline muzzleloaders illegal.

[Catt]

I have personally witnessed 4" groups at 200 yard by experenced marksmen until ideal conditions on a target range but for the average marksman under hunting conditons 125 yards would be max if the deer is standing still in an open area. I don't think Ithica is advocating shooting deer at 200 yards but rather shows the excellent results the Deerslayer III "can achieve". As Lund Explorer eluded to hitting a paper target is one thing while getting a clean kill shot on a deer is totally different.

I am rather predjuce when it comes to shotguns in that I will not shoot, own, or recomend Mossberg; it is totally personal and nothing y'all can say about them will sway my opinion. Remington 870 Express Deer is an excellent entry level shotgun but I would also look at used guns from a realiable source.

[Sfritr]

Great info everybody.  I would offer my .02 but I couldn't say it any better. 

I would only offer that if you are looking for affordability and reliability IMO you should look towards possible a used Ithaca or Remington 870 or Winchester 1300.  Look for the rifled slug barrels and you should be easily able to build a 125yd deer gun

[Triton21]

I bought a Savage 210 this year. Got tired of guns that would not hold a 8" group at 100 yards.  I have owned all of the above guns(escept deerslayer III, not going to pay $1000 for a gun can only hunt 7 days a year.)  I can hold 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards off my shoulder sitting in a chair and a sawhorse for a rest.  I have had some better groups that this but they were not consistent.  Shooting Winchester 3" Gold Partition.

Kelley