Windows 7?

[Dan:]

I don't have a problem with Mac people, I just don't understand why they are all defensive and why they think they run the world....

It's to make them feel better about spending all that money on a computer.

[Glenn]

I don't have a problem with Mac people, I just don't understand why they are all defensive and why they think they run the world....

I don't think you realize how funny that sounds - and not for the reasons you might think!!  ;D

[daviscw]

I don't have a problem with Mac people, I just don't understand why they are all defensive and why they think they run the world....

I don't think you realize how funny that sounds - and not for the reasons you might think!! ;D

I don't get it, but I am drunk... I witll check back tomorrow.

[cart7t]

Since when did you have to upgrade your computer to install an operating system? Nobody is forcing you to upgrade your OS.

Upgrades to newer versions of Windows were usually forced for the following reasons:

1. Windows ceased supporting the version OS the consumer was using.

2. Due to changes in applications, programs purchased would no longer run on older versions of Windows. (failure to support legacy applications)

3. Pure dissatisfaction with the current windows product and hoping the next version would improve.

I don't know anyone who has actually had such problems. Sure, I've had programs crash every once in a while, but most of the time it's because of something I did.

I sure have. I deal with extensive Java based programs within MS's glorious IE everyday.  Since MS doesn't even bundle Java within it's OS (all apart of that anti-trust thing), it often has problems with one of the most popular programming languages used in internet based programming today.

Java aside, it's all about programmers having to write programs to interact with windows API.  Not an easy task and it shouldn't be that way.

Those d**n consumers, where do they get off CHOOSING what they buy?!?!

Consumers often make the wrong choices.

The pro's (TV studios, film makers, commercial video recording medium) continued to use the Betamax and derivatives of that format for many years to come.  They knew the advantages and acted accordingly. 

What makes a Mac superior? I could give two craps about video or picture editing, yet I would like to be able to play computer games so PC is clearly the better choice. ADDITIONALLY, MY LAPTOP COST ME $450 AND IT HAS GREATER COMPUTING POWER THAN A $1000 APPLE LAPTOP. Sorry, but to me it seems pretty clear that Apple is the egotistical company. How else can you explain their prices?

MAC is in much the same shape that Betamax was. It now targets a different user that doesn't care for windows, at least having that OS interfere with the running of specific applications they use and it's the reason it's more of a commercial version of an operating system vs. a system that has mass appeal.  Yep, it's tough to find a lot of programs designed to run on a MAC.  Much the same way it got difficult to find movies that were also available on Betamax.  MAC pricing?  It's tough to drop pricing when you're selling so few units.  When you can mass market to the entire world you can price accordingly.

[J Francho]

[NewAngler]

I've got a Mac that I'm forced to use when I have to do work at home. I do not like it. I don't know if it's because I use a PC at work, and have been using a PC for so many years, or if its just because I am not too techy and can't get wrapped up in the MAC phase.

The anti-Vista hoopla was more along the lines of a "Mac is the greatest thing since midget strippers."

Anyhow, I think I may make the upgrade to my work computer and personal laptop to Windows 7. Eh, maybe not.

[llPa1nll]

Gotta love the PC vs Mac OS debate. Only reason I have a PC is to play video games other than that I dont use it. What I like about a Mac is that it is designed to work "plug and play", granted more PCs are becoming this way. However I have heard to  many horror stories over the years and on my own that some devices and drivers are just incompatible.

So then you have to go and try and find a solution as to why it isnt working properly. Anyway they each have their place. If there was a perfect world imho I would have PC hardware run OSX stably and run the high end graphics programs I use at work and the graphic intensive games I play at home on one machine. That isnt here yet so I have 2 machines at home. 8-) 8-) 8-)

[I Love BassResource]

Since when did you have to upgrade your computer to install an operating system? Nobody is forcing you to upgrade your OS.

Upgrades to newer versions of Windows were usually forced for the following reasons:

1. Windows ceased supporting the version OS the consumer was using.

2. Due to changes in applications, programs purchased would no longer run on older versions of Windows. (failure to support legacy applications)

3. Pure dissatisfaction with the current windows product and hoping the next version would improve.

Your quoting generic reasons that can and do affect every software vendor in the current market, Apple and the Mac fall prey to the reasons you've listed above. Fail.

I don't know anyone who has actually had such problems. Sure, I've had programs crash every once in a while, but most of the time it's because of something I did.

I sure have. I deal with extensive Java based programs within MS's glorious IE everyday. Since MS doesn't even bundle Java within it's OS (all apart of that anti-trust thing), it often has problems with one of the most popular programming languages used in internet based programming today.

Java aside, it's all about programmers having to write programs to interact with windows API. Not an easy task and it shouldn't be that way.

First you proclaim an OS should be seen and not heard, but you complain the JAVA Virtual Machine isn't bundled as part of the native OS install? You do understand there is a difference between Java and Javascript, right? MS released the MS Virtual Machine as part of the XP SP 1, but was forced to remove it based on a lawsuit from Sun

http://www.mvps.org/marksxp/WindowsXP/java.php

Java developers need not interact with the Windows API. Java developers need to interact with the JAVA API, so your argument of Java aside makes no sense. If you refer to Windows(vb,c++,.net,etc) developers making use of the windows API, I've failed to see much difficulty in this task over the past 9 years. Have you ever developed against the Mac API? I have, and its actually more confusing than the windows API, although I do prefer the way they handle their security stacks.

MS is a giant, they steal when they can, they profit at every corner they can. I can't imagine where you formulate your ego theory with MS but turn a blind eye towards the egomaniacs Jobs has created with the snobby kids carrying pastel notebooks. I hold no loyalty towards either group. I work on development contracts using whatever technologies my employers wish to deploy. The windows OS isn't anywhere as bad as the naysayers like to make out. I can write an application that will crash a Mac just as quick as your typical junk app can crash a windows machine. No current main stream OS is bullet proof.

Stick to bad forum jokes Cart, its your strong suit

[Dan:]

Since when did you have to upgrade your computer to install an operating system? Nobody is forcing you to upgrade your OS.

Upgrades to newer versions of Windows were usually forced for the following reasons:

1. Windows ceased supporting the version OS the consumer was using.When did this happen? The last time that I heard of them doing that they quickly changed their mind and decided to keep supporting the old version. I believe that was Win98.

2. Due to changes in applications, programs purchased would no longer run on older versions of Windows. (failure to support legacy applications)What programs aren't backwards compatible with Windows? Sure, other software companies make programs for the newer OS's but that isn't necessarily Window's fault.

3. Pure dissatisfaction with the current windows product and hoping the next version would improve.

I don't know anyone who has actually had such problems. Sure, I've had programs crash every once in a while, but most of the time it's because of something I did.

I sure have. I deal with extensive Java based programs within MS's glorious IE everyday. Since MS doesn't even bundle Java within it's OS (all apart of that anti-trust thing), it often has problems with one of the most popular programming languages used in internet based programming today.

Java aside, it's all about programmers having to write programs to interact with windows API. Not an easy task and it shouldn't be that way.

Those d**n consumers, where do they get off CHOOSING what they buy?!?!

Consumers often make the wrong choices.

The pro's (TV studios, film makers, commercial video recording medium) continued to use the Betamax and derivatives of that format for many years to come. They knew the advantages and acted accordingly. The "Pros" also use PC's to render their computer animations because Mac's don't have the processing power.

What makes a Mac superior? I could give two craps about video or picture editing, yet I would like to be able to play computer games so PC is clearly the better choice. ADDITIONALLY, MY LAPTOP COST ME $450 AND IT HAS GREATER COMPUTING POWER THAN A $1000 APPLE LAPTOP. Sorry, but to me it seems pretty clear that Apple is the egotistical company. How else can you explain their prices?

MAC is in much the same shape that Betamax was. It now targets a different user that doesn't care for windows, at least having that OS interfere with the running of specific applications they use and it's the reason it's more of a commercial version of an operating system vs. a system that has mass appeal. Yep, it's tough to find a lot of programs designed to run on a MAC. Much the same way it got difficult to find movies that were also available on Betamax. MAC pricing? It's tough to drop pricing when you're selling so few units. When you can mass market to the entire world you can price accordingly.Yeah, sort of like how Apple charges an arm and a leg for an ipod, despite having almost the entire market share for mp3 players. :-/

If Mac was really better for the average user, people would be buying it. Betamax was foregone because the tapes were too short to play or record entire movies and there were prohibitive licensing issues that made them more expensive to use. PCs are cheaper and do what an average user needs well enough to give them the majority of the market and to discourage customers from spending the higher amount of a Mac that does less and if only marginally better.

[llPa1nll]

Yeah, sort of like how Apple charges an arm and a leg for an ipod, despite having almost the entire market share for mp3 players. Undecided

Dan using that skewed logic why isnt Windows 7 free? Since its so much better and has the majority of the market share?

:-/

[-HAWK-]

anyone upgraded yet? I just upgraded (took a couple hours) but I'm not really sure how much they changed anything. There are a few obvious GUI changes but other than that I haven't found much.

How did that question^^^

Turn into an Apple Vs Microsoft debate???? Geez I thought this was a Bass fishing forum.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Root beer]

All I know is, we had Microsoft since we first bought a home computer, and since then we never ever consistently had a problem. By that I mean the occasional virus that comes alone an destroy your computer, but after some cleaning it back to normal operation.

To fuel the fire some more, here a link I took from my computer information technology class's link. My professor gave us some links to read if we were bored. Cheers:

http://vc.ws.edu/teched/tduda/1100/MacGetsHacked.pdf

P.S. I've used my computer for everything for school, music, to video gaming (games like counter strike, battlfield, etc) and surfing web. Never had a problem. It got job done.

[Koop]

3 cheers for Ubuntu or openSUSE?

What would you get if you crossed microsoft with open source applications?

A Mac.

Argue it all you want, if you know half as much as you think about computers, you know that mac trumps windows in many ways.

The coding is more sufficient, it makes programing a dream.

The reason so many dislike mac's is because they have used windows for so long when they switch to a mac the interface is different and they are unwilling to change.

Lets state a few FACTS:

1) (Talking strictly new models) A Mac boots significantly faster than a PC. 25 seconds vs minutes, also has significantly more reliable power conservation and sleep modes. (Less flashy lights also, why is it it seems all new PC laptops look like they should be hanging from a cord at a rave?)

2)Macs use higher quality components.

3) (Putting Linux aside for a moment) OSX + Windows is better than Windows.

Mac's can run several virtual desktops for your various needs without notice of a slow down.

4) Significantly more opensource applications.

5) More useful applications out of the box. (Look at what OSX comes with, I dont feel like listing them all) Though take a look at time machine... makes back up so much easier and more efficient than anything windows offers.

6) File sharing MAC vs Windows... enough said.

7)All MAC's can run Windows natively. No PCs to date can run OSX natively.

8) Customer Support is better.

9)Multi touch technology... even if you sleep with your PC in your bed you have to admit... MAC leads the industry in multi touch tech... and it is cool as hell.

Not trying to bash PC's or Windows but from my OSX trumps Windows significantly from a program and applied use stand point.

Now I do have Windows 7 installed also on my mac, along with OpenSUSE. I can switch between the 3 with the click of a button and have complete access to anything I could possibly need.

Lastly, MAC's do look better cosmetically to many people. This is the point that many think is the reason people buy MACs, and for many it probably is the reason they buy their MACs. It is those people who probably DONT need to buy a MAC as they will never look into or care to utilize the full functionality that a MAC offers but rather buy it for the appearence they think it gives them.

I personally bought my Macbook for the programing capabilities.

It makes my life much easier, also makes running a home network seamless. If you've ever tried setting up a wireless network with wireless TB servers accessable in your home or large media servers with a PC you know what I am talking about.

[Glenn]

Well, I've been working with computers since the late '70s, am A+ certified, and have used both systems extensively over the past few decades.  Suffice to say, my "half" of what I "think" I know about computers is far more than your entire knowledgebase.  In addition, there are many network and system engineers here on this forum who know more than I.

But I digress.

No matter how anyone feels about either versions, the FACT is that there are far more Windows users than Mac.  It's always been that way; and there's nothing that indicates it won't change anytime soon.

So if you love a Mac, bully for you.  But don't get a chip on your shoulder or cop an attitude because you're one of the few.  Accept you're in the minority, enjoy your machine for whatever you got it for, and leave it at that.

dang....I thought this was a fishing forum.  :

[Glenn]

anyone upgraded yet? I just upgraded (took a couple hours) but I'm not really sure how much they changed anything. There are a few obvious GUI changes but other than that I haven't found much.

How did that question^^^

Turn into an Apple Vs Microsoft debate???? Geez I thought this was a Bass fishing forum. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Agreed.  I think this thread has degenerated.  :-/

[Lund Explorer]

anyone upgraded yet? I just upgraded (took a couple hours) but I'm not really sure how much they changed anything. There are a few obvious GUI changes but other than that I haven't found much.

How did that question^^^

Turn into an Apple Vs Microsoft debate???? Geez I thought this was a Bass fishing forum. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Agreed. I think this thread has degenerated. :-/

Is it too late to say "I miss DOS"?

[I Love BassResource]

3 cheers for Ubuntu or openSUSE?

What would you get if you crossed microsoft with open source applications?

A Mac.

Argue it all you want, if you know half as much as you think about computers, you know that mac trumps windows in many ways.

The coding is more sufficient, it makes programing a dream.

So you've had chance to review the native OS source code from each vendor? The source that nether vendor has published as open source, thus coming to your "sufficient" conclusion. I think you mean efficient. Programming is typically accomplished via an API set, with JAVA its against the JVM, .NET the Framework, both of which touts OS interoperability. Since we're targeting the API, the OS never comes into play.

The reason so many dislike mac's is because they have used windows for so long when they switch to a mac the interface is different and they are unwilling to change.

Lets state a few FACTS:

1) (Talking strictly new models) A Mac boots significantly faster than a PC. 25 seconds vs minutes, also has significantly more reliable power conservation and sleep modes. (Less flashy lights also, why is it it seems all new PC laptops look like they should be hanging from a cord at a rave?)

If your Windows OS takes minutes to boot, please consult an experienced user who can assist you in resolving the issue. Even XP is capable of booting in less than 25 seconds.

2)Macs use higher quality components.

As compared to who? Your aware that since a PC is based on the x86 Architecture, consumers have the luxury of buying machines built from a wide array of vendors. Among these vendors, we can find hardware ranging from cheap to extremely high in build quality. At least you have the option to choose.

3) (Putting Linux aside for a moment) OSX + Windows is better than Windows.

Mac's can run several virtual desktops for your various needs without notice of a slow down.

This is chore is largely hardware dependent. I've personally ran 60+ virtual servers on a single Windows 2008 machine utilizing Hyper V, servicing an audience of over 60k people. VMWare works just as well, if not better in the same environment.

4) Significantly more opensource applications.

Maybe, if I want Open source, I'll fire up my slackware install. Ubuntu (giggle)

5) More useful applications out of the box. (Look at what OSX comes with, I dont feel like listing them all) Though take a look at time machine... makes back up so much easier and more efficient than anything windows offers.

Opinion oriented at best, I have snow leopard running in front of me, and I notice little improvement over what vista had to offer. Win 7 is simply vista tweaked.

6) File sharing MAC vs Windows... enough said.

Works just as well as a windows file share. I personally feel the windows setup is substantially easier to work with given the popularity of domains/ldaps

7)All MAC's can run Windows natively. No PCs to date can run OSX natively.

http://laughingsquid.com/installing-leopard-on-a-pc-in-three-easy-steps/

8) Customer Support is better.

I agree.

9)Multi touch technology... even if you sleep with your PC in your bed you have to admit... MAC leads the industry in multi touch tech... and it is cool as hell.

It is cool, but I can't find any real practical use for it when I want to work on my PC/Mac.

Not trying to bash PC's or Windows but from my OSX trumps Windows significantly from a program and applied use stand point.

No you tried, and adequately failed.

Now I do have Windows 7 installed also on my mac, along with OpenSUSE. I can switch between the 3 with the click of a button and have complete access to anything I could possibly need.

Lastly, MAC's do look better cosmetically to many people. This is the point that many think is the reason people buy MACs, and for many it probably is the reason they buy their MACs. It is those people who probably DONT need to buy a MAC as they will never look into or care to utilize the full functionality that a MAC offers but rather buy it for the appearence they think it gives them.

I personally bought my Macbook for the programing capabilities.

Care to elaborate? Just the quick "capability" drop doesn't cut it. I"m really curious, as if you can help educate me, it could possibly make my work life more sufficient, err I mean efficient.

It makes my life much easier, also makes running a home network seamless. If you've ever tried setting up a wireless network with wireless TB servers accessable in your home or large media servers with a PC you know what I am talking about.

Its childs play, so I"m not sure how much easier any vendor can make it without complete automation, lol.

[senile1]

Well, I've been working with computers since the late '70s, am A+ certified, and have used both systems extensively over the past few decades. Suffice to say, my "half" of what I "think" I know about computers is far more than your entire knowledgebase. In addition, there are many network and system engineers here on this forum who know more than I.

But I digress.

No matter how anyone feels about either versions, the FACT is that there are far more Windows users than Mac. It's always been that way; and there's nothing that indicates it won't change anytime soon.

So if you love a Mac, bully for you. But don't get a chip on your shoulder or cop an attitude because you're one of the few. Accept you're in the minority, enjoy your machine for whatever you got it for, and leave it at that.

dang....I thought this was a fishing forum. :

Glenn, I'm with you. To the rest of you, I'm a network engineer with the following certs: (Cisco - CCVP, CCNP, CCNA, CICCES) (Microsoft - MCSE,) (Nortel - NCSS) (CompTia - Network+ and A+). I design, configure, and implement enterprise VoIP and data networks for a living. No offense to those of you who are truly knowledgeable about operating systems, but I've generally found that most of the people who have strong opinions about the PC - Mac debate usually have enough knowledge to be dangerous. I usually stay out of the arguments on any subject where people hold intense opinions, because those types of people usually will never give up that opinion even if the facts indicate otherwise.

By the way, this ties in quite nicely with my signature below.