Big Threat

[SirSnookalot]

The foreign aid given Israel comes back many times over.  The United States gets intelligence, military tactics,weapon innovations and security ideas.   Also coming back is medical equipment, technology and some of the finest trained doctors.  As with all allies, it's give and take.

My ex uncle ( I didn't marry his niece ) was an advisor to Nixon regarding Israeli affairs.  Much of what I remember him saying in 1970 has been coming true the last 10 years.  

[Muddy]

Monroe Doctrine.....what happened to it?

The Monroe doctrine has to do with our much closer neighbors. This would be more of a Anti Nuclear Proliferation issue

[Muddy]

Conflict with North Korea needs to be avoided.

This will not even be close to a Gulf war. Korea has a Navy, similar to our Coast Guard with limited range, and Subs. They have AirForce, and ground forces that are well equiped.

US hasn't faced anyone in years who will offer all phases of war.

Why are we so worried about North Korea? We think if they develope Nuc's, they would sell them to a terrorist cell, someone most likely to use one on the USA.

In my opinion, Koreans would not be doing anything that the USA hasn't done, we have supplied many a groups and countries over the years to fight battles. During the cold war, we supplied weapons made from other countries to Afghanistan to fight the USSR during the cold war period. Israeli and Palstine, they would have whipped Israeli's from the strip with out US support all these years. In the 70's, don't forget Ollie North. enough said, lots of examples of US support to other countries under the table.

US has never kept is nose out of others business.

Not many can beat us with conventional methods, thus the terrorist ways. When the bully comes calling, the little guy gets an equalizer, well, US would beat most all countries in a coventional war hands down.

Korea is a dangerous threat that don't need to be bullied.

North Korea giving weapons to terrorists is no where near the same as the United States supplying the Mujaheddin with weapons to PROTECT THEIR OWN COUNTRY FROM SOVIET INVASION. Not to mention, there is a HUGE difference between selling someone conventional weapons and selling someone nukes... And yes we SELL stuff to the Israelis but they are already vastly superior to their neighbors because they have a much stronger economy. I think it's a pretty big assumption to say that without our help they would have been "whipped" considering how badly they have whipped multiple countries at a time. And what about the 1948 Arab Israeli war? How much help could we have been giving them at that time?--and they still defeated almost ALL of their neighbors.

BUT, I do agree with you. We shouldn't be taking NK so lightly. It really would be a nasty conflict. NK has a very strong army. They aren't necessarily modern but they have large numbers and are heavily armed. The one thing that makes them weak is that their economy is so bad that the wouldn't be able to sustain any sort of prolonged conflict. The soldiers would probably end up starving if an opponent just stretched a conflict out. T\

Dan : The us has traded drugs for weapons in Central America ( CIA Contra gate scandal) , supplied Cuban Exiles trying to topple Castro and several African regimes , to keep them out of Muslim Control. I have no opinion either way, as I have no expertise in this area, seems to make sense that if one country is funded powers favorable to them, then the US should do it to help protect our interests.

[Muddy]

My ex is Jewish and so is my daughter, I have listened to my former mother in law for years. I believe it is time for Iraq and Israel to stand on their own two feet.

Check this out, a good amount of domestic  espionage cases are against Israeli Agents, who are supposed to be our Allies

If these countries want to keep fighting the Crusades then let them kill each other and leave our kids out of it. Neither side has shown anything approaching rational behavior in search of a peaceful settlement

[Micro]

You guys that haven't downloaded Google Earth ought to.  You can really see just how friggin' crazy this regime is.  Pyongyang is ringed, and I mean ringed, with AAA.  So are most of the major cities.  The islands are covered with artillery emplacements.  The countryside is literally covered in burial mounds - uncountable numbers - most of whom agree belong  to famine victims.   They've got bunkers all over the country.  There is a military airstrip that runs through (not over or around) a mountain.  Ancient fighers sitting on airstrips.

In contrast, Pyongyang has a weird rollercoast, palaces for Kim Jong il, a goofy golf course with trees in the middle of the fairways, weird street intersections.

This regime is nuts.

Here's a few of the anti-aircraft artiller sites around the major cities.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p_6w-TKi2akXF_HIAb8laNzxbvTM2uWX9AVkt4u-OTIGqDf94a9V9HuQVXTIwETw3lhjKYsNNGGgXCQ_jkYZl5zJO6kVFuJpz/A_few_AAA_sites.jpg

Close up.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pZl6nDHN1hMRc3ub3mVwFITkem-decfkThAHZBN7q7bKpzDbkzEMFBcMTxj4dMTaL1TgjjG1oCXmEs6HJ3ac8QVGuEdO5hnSE/Typical_AAA_site.jpg

Fortified islands.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pExtNtgQ_n9SBfYkHA_zXxVKS5Qz97Fhv5Xg-CUAIbR7uutmAtdylxpBH04Xxv0ptDQoqZHQ05I8wggCW7nGaNmNdvcfGNXn3/artillery.jpg

Airstrip that goes through a mountain.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pboGSU9mcYd8fYTt-_5i5KiUJrBFf0hfMlpGVOYCFKWuqHv_LA0wPzPOXuE7RpDotnrPJdJxw__x1KU9lmHnBAUMz-wMGq8Q5/bizarre_airstrip.jpg

Mig 21s.  But they've go Mig-29s, too.  And modern tank-busting aircraft, too.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pqtOlGUd1PQ9IsGoncCQ_pIyX52lr9-94rs7JAi8SnJpKoSHwcOfJsoz9WMPez6TfeYBKSqAYklLZvYv9HUZkLa1_4pawFcLP/mig21s.jpg

An airfield that's on fire.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pr8CSr2r6g60tO9pjbGN2vCDlmVpEY3yxc08nD8MV_J531KWrNYJBH3RwTEZ32xA8eLhX0_xnl6bmE_y_dIHB6NdHTmWnibcc/mig17s_mig21s_fire.jpg

Highways that serve as landing strips.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pWaEZi3Z-yxOtNZslbBod9t4a3V_TUridCCM5dpsthBXYBzIf_cIJvqhR0u_24uIxGfFSoSoDGjloepNJPaCKM2xIr4oUm24B/highway_landingstrip.jpg

Burial mounds.  These are all over the country.  Probably several people per grave.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p2Jb3mdLVPKzrY9tMHzszWRZmN8-2hf8_kubYoIoZFTMOfSYeIXk1SFY17W2bQoV6OUVkMi9Gg7FhSYE32dH0jQHZWtPrU6r2/graves.jpg

Who has right-of-way at this intersection?

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pDK3rRTNvSgjLb4SpE03pvfslMisy1B1JaiPtqPGA90BuWm1aE-hPkazLGxmAWypUk3Ncerx8J435DT2w7XtaLaJAFQMPkCjq/weird_intersection.jpg

And this very challenging golf course.

http://bztv5q.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p_CzMw8PmGKKcKIsco2UKGoIF4sFUCMyWUrp5zgffDfNoynltaPp_-WtA_7gYcblXrp_4uK5Vy_dy5MakPnxp5vU4qDbsFed_/challenging_gold_course.jpg

North Korea is the land of weirdness.

[Micro]

Conflict with North Korea needs to be avoided.

I agree, to a certain extent.  

NK is no Iraq.  NK has a huge, motivated army that will fight to the death.  I have no doubt about that.  Their country is a fortress.  NK will simply go underground.  NK would be a meat grinder if war broke out.

Anyone that thinks NK would be a walk-over is deluding themselves.  

NK's fighter bombers are minutes from Seoul.  They have long range artillery that can reach Seoul.  They have huge stokpiles of biological and chemical weapons.  Now they have nukes.  Not many probably, but enough to do unimaginable damage.  

Nevertheless, NK would lose a war.  South Korea is likewise highly motivated, better fed, better equipped, and backed by the US.  

War should be avoided to the extent we can.  But we cannot give in to their blackmail and threats.    

[Dan:]

My ex is Jewish and so is my daughter, I have listened to my former mother in law for years. I believe it is time for Iraq and Israel to stand on their own two feet.

Check this out, a good amount of domestic espionage cases are against Israeli Agents, who are supposed to be our Allies

If these countries want to keep fighting the Crusades then let them kill each other and leave our kids out of it. Neither side has shown anything approaching rational behavior in search of a peaceful settlement

You're right about the espionage. Israel spies on us more than any other country does.... I honestly don't think we really get that much out of our alliance.

And Muddy, MOST of the cases in which we have supplied or aided groups or politicians in other countries it has been to preserve our security OR to promote the stability or human rights of people in other countries. NK supplying terrorists with nukes is completely incomparable to those cases.

[Muddy]

Hey Dan; I have no idea what the powers to be are up to, I am not one for paranoia, it's their game ( all of them, USA too) let them play it out. We never really know what's going on anyway

I remember as a child, the air raid sirens going off, and we had to go to public shelters and hide under our desks, it was pretty scary for a 9 year old. My hope is someday we will get to the point where a 9 year old is safe from all of this insanity.

If you get a chance listen to Bob Dylan's Masters of War, he says it so much better than I.

[CWB]

Being threatened with annihilation by North Korea?

Please.

The Cuban missle crisis was about the Soviet Union. A very credible threat indeed.

North Korea is dangerous, but I wouldn't miss American Idol over it.

I believe they now have a missile capable of hitting Hawaii.

That's a credible threat in my book. If they use it or not is another story. With our missile defense being mostly ignored by the current administration, that's more than a minor threat IMHO.

Kim Jung is a loose cannon with nothing to lose.

[Tin]

I'm sure a missile shield exists anyway...

[Dan:]

Hey Dan; I have no idea what the powers to be are up to, I am not one for paranoia, it's their game ( all of them, USA too) let them play it out. We never really know what's going on anyway

I remember as a child, the air raid sirens going off, and we had to go to public shelters and hide under our desks, it was pretty scary for a 9 year old. My hope is someday we will get to the point where a 9 year old is safe from all of this insanity.

If you get a chance listen to Bob Dylan's Masters of War, he says it so much better than I.

can I skip the screechy attempt at singing and just read the lyrics??  ;D

Our missile shield is kind of sketchy. It can hit some missiles consistently but other missiles are harder for it to hit. I'm not sure they could hit Hawaii. They say they can but I would be surprised if their technology could actually do what they say it can do.