Market reports

[Root beer]

Dow Jones Industry: 8,020.06 +258.46 (3.33%)

NASDAQ: 1,607.29 +55.69 (3.59%)

S&P: 500 837.63 +26.55 (3.27%)

Tone Turns Optimistic

1:05p ET April 2, 2009 (Briefing.com)

Participants are pushing stocks to their highest levels in more than one month as a bullish bias takes hold of the broader market. The upbeat tone has been present since the early going, unchecked by a mixed bag of economic data. Initial jobless claims jumped 12,000 to 669,000 for the week ending March 28. They were expected to come in at 650,000. Continuing claims exceeded expectations as well. They totaled 5.73 million, while economists expected 5.59 million claims. The market knows that labor conditions remain gloomy, so the larger-than-expected increase in initial jobless claims is being treated with indifference, which is similar to the treatment given to yesterday's ugly ADP Employment Report. With that in mind, the reaction to tomorrow's nonfarm payrolls report could prove to be an affirmation of investors' growing willingness to look past data that isn't truly horrendous. Meanwhile, total February factory orders climbed 1.8%, which was slightly above the expected 1.5% increase. Orders for the prior month were revised lower to reflect a 3.5% decline. A broad sense of optimism is helping fuel gains in the broader market. All 10 sectors in the S&P 500 are up by at least 1%. Their advance is being bolstered as short-sellers cover their positions after betting the stock market's recent advances would fail to hold. Instead, the stock market is up more than 7% during the course of the last three sessions. While financial stocks have been central to the stock market's gains in recent weeks, they have actually lagged a bit this session. The sector is up a healthy 3.2%, but that is still less than the broader market. Some market watchers expected financials to gain in the wake of the FASB's vote to ease mark-to-market accounting rules for banks valuing assets, but the announcement was largely expected and financials are seeing little additional buying

[Sam]

Due to banks getting rid of some toxic debts.

News out of Europe is not good and I expect Dow to fall again.

Can't make political posts so will shut up and go away.  ;D   ;D   ;D

[Root beer]

Due to banks getting rid of some toxic debts.

That happen last week. Right now today is mostly because of new regulations coming into play. Making changes to the Mark-to-Market accounting standards which will change the way banks value assets.

[South FLA]

Dude, if any of you have a crystal ball tell me, cause I don't no anyone who can figure the market out yet.  If anyone here does, please contact me asap, I'll make you  and I RICH!  

[Root beer]

I do not think I take a Market Theory class. I got 13 accounting classes all lined up. :-?

I'm just the guy that sits down with all the numbers giggling and laughing.

Accountants are like doctors, everybody believe us.

[tyrius.]

I'm just the guy that sits down with all the numbers giggling and laughing.

Accountants are like doctors, everybody believe us.

My job exists solely because people do NOT believe accountants!   8-)

[South FLA]

If all accountants were ethical and actually followed GAAP, and everyone listed, then we would be much better off.  Problem is the finance guys like me screw things up by getting creative and try to make balance sheets say something that isn' there (i.e. the projected cashflows show blah blah blah so everything well be alright, risk, what risk?), that's why finance guys and accounts don't get along at times.   >

Don't you love mark to market if your an accountant, what's your take?

Interesting reading here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/Restructuring08/idUSTRE48M28220080923

http://seekingalpha.com/article/129281-schrodinger-s-mark-to-market-law-of-dead-cats

[Root beer]

I'm just the guy that sits down with all the numbers giggling and laughing.

Accountants are like doctors, everybody believe us.

My job exists solely because people do NOT believe accountants! 8-)

Does that makes us future enemies?  8-)

[Root beer]

I'm not going to B.S. you here, but I haven't gotten to Mark-to-Market yet.  I just know what it means (valuing assets on balance sheets correct me if I'm wrong) but I haven't learn how it actually works. I don't know the formula or anything like that on how they value the assets.

I haven't taken a college level accounting class, yet. I take it next fall. (I'm following the adviser guide)  I took a very basic accounting class in high school learn where all the numbers go on a journal, balance sheets, etc. I've only taken two college level economic. Actually, I'm currently taking my 2nd one, and I take my 3rd one this summer. I take Calculus A and Accounting next fall, then  in the spring I take Quantitative Method along with Accounting II.

I'm in my 2nd semester of college. I teach myself the stock market everyday. I have a portfolio with Ameritrade and I read almost every news report that comes through my account. I look up all the major vocabularies and just teach myself. I learned the formulas of Debt Ratio (Liability/assets=debt ratio) to value stocks if I think the stocks are worth it. Even though that sometimes misleading,I feel more comfortable investing knowing they are using lower leverage (that is if the ratio is real low). If I only have enough cash to buy 3 companies which ever has a lower debt ratio is the company I invest in. That what I"m doing right now with my Ameritrade Account. Rest I learn from my brother he got a Business Administration degree. He major in Economic and minor in Accounting. He working in sales for Flowers food. He makes good money, but I want something better. 8-)

[Muddy]

The bankers. brokers ,SEC ( Madoff mess) and accountants we have currently in place I refuse to trust.

I have child support, I have been paying it for 18 years by law and have agreed to continue this one last year, to help my daughter finish college, it is the least i can do. I am grateful that having this support in my child's hand prevented me from placing monies in a 401 K, as all the folks who got hired with me some 13 years ago lost most of it. I much rather have that money go to my daughters well being than into some con artist in a suit's pocket

Con Artist's? The most interesting question, very few senators ( except for a handful of those on the banking committee) asked the head of those hedge funds and and the managers of 401k's was this

 Why were you all telling people to stay in or jump into the market, to avoid an hysterical response and further devaluation when most of your disclosed portfolio information shows YOU FELLAS GETTING OUT SOME 34 MONTHS BEFORE THE COLLAPSE.

 i THOUGHT THAT TO BE AN EXCELLENT QUESTION, ASKED 3 TIMES IN 2 DIFFERENT HEARING AND NO ANWER, NOT ONCE!!!!

Greed has replaced ethics and the generation that has carried the SS burden for the greatest generation now has to worry and work longer because their retirement money has vanished, this is unforgivable in the face of the bad advice and inside maneuvering that went on

I am not saying all accountants and bankers are evil people, just enough of them to damage a lot of folks!

I have co workers who make around 50K a year all of them have lost a minimum of 100K and that is a very bad breach of trust .

 I wouldn't go near the market. I have a small amount, less than 25K in some bonds, they may not have soared in value, but I made some pennies and lost not one cent ,despite our companies suit geek blabbing about how I wasn't even covering inflation

PS That guy is now unemployed, and should be!!!

I still have my moeny, the matching funds my company put in and a very little growth, BUT NO LOSS

I aint greedy and took enough schooling to know something was amiss. I learned more about how to handle money , and who to trust from a bookie I grew up with than i ever learned in school ;D

[Root beer]

Muddy, there was a guy who kept reporting to SEC that Madoff was running a scheme. He reported it 10 times over an 8 year spread. Well, anyway after Madoff ponzi scheme surfaced, the same guy bashed the SEC like this "The SEC could go to Fenway park, sit in the Red Sox's dugout, and still cannot find 1st base"

A week later an SEC chief resigned.  

Funny stuff.

[Muddy]

yea I saw that also. As you study the SEC it is a sad progression of people connected to the wealth of the folks they are supposed to be monitoring.

I agree that remark was funny , but i gotta tell you Root Beer what has happened to a lot of my peers, good hard working folks ready to retire is sad.

[Root beer]

I agree that remark was funny , but i gotta tell you Root Beer what has happened to a lot of my peers, good hard working folks ready to retire is sad.

Yeah, I'm not laughing at that. Just the remark. Honestly, I don't think SEC is in anyone's pocket, but I just don't think they are smart enough to uncover it. They just look at the accounting sheets and statement, but do not look further into and see if those statements really did happen. Because they got so many companies to read and so much going on and not enough money to hire a lot of people to look into those statement and see if they are fraudulent or not.

example: I could report I made my money on XYZ because this happen. But SEC will not look and see if that did happen (in madoff case that event did happen, he just never did invested in it). I just basically told a lie and that all she wrote. It really is hard trying to uncover frauds, mistakes, and fudged numbers.

Where else can you make a 2 million dollar transaction and the only proof is the accountant's hand?

[Muddy]

True, I see the real culprit as the collective greed of a lot of people who lost site of their mission,

The SEC missing Madoff is akin to going for a walk during Katrina and saying WHAT STORM!

[SirSnookalot]

Not to make light of the Madoff scandal, the problems starting long ago.  I feel for the people and the charities a that have been Madoffed and not all them wealthy people.

The blame can be put in many areas, deregulation, mortgage originators and the public either being naive or caught up in the game of home equity withdrawal.  The victims are the ones that did everything right.  Paid taxes, saved and invested for the future and lived within their means, there is little or no help for the ones that did it right.

I have been optimistic thru out these times and I still am.  I see things going on now indicating that we have entered "recovery".  The indicators I focus on always preclude the general economy by 6 months or so and it's happening.  Get ready to ROCK N ROLL !

[Muddy]

You may be ready to rock and roll .The folks I am talking about are in their early 60's,ready to retire and a lot have lost over 50% of their invested retirement funds, this happened in a matter of months.They lost 20 years of savings and it would take at least , lets say 12 to 15 years to get it back, so they can't retire for at least 5 to 7 years now. I am sure they will appreciate those good indicators.

[SirSnookalot]

I am one those people in their 60's, 64 to be exact and have lost over half of what I had as well, drawing money from my portfolio to live on and reducing it that much more every month . The people you are referencing are still working, so things could be way worse for them. My heart goes out to the victims of layoffs with no savings.

Yes the indicators are there. Retail sales are up, builders starting to build homes, factory starts are up(very important indicator), commodities like copper up, meaning demand is increasing, not to mention companies like aflac, united healthcare, at&t, kmart, medical institutions, and others are starting to hire and not entry level positions but across the board, employment data is a lagging indicator, not a leading one...........yes I'm optimistic.

2 types of people , those that complain and do nothing while others get on with life and make the best of it. I started my business during the recession of 74 as many others did, ya gotta just grind it out till it happens. No different than fishing, how many casts do you make before you get that trophy?

[Muddy]

Did you ever hear the phenomenon of a Bear Market rising for a month, and those same suit guys I was talking about taking their end, a big rush to sell follows and back to the 7000 mark we go

I aint complaining cause i never bought into the greed angle, never in the market and I continue to work.

That money was stolen, people have the right to complain. There was a withdrawal from the market 34 months before it crashed BY THE MANAGERS OF THOSE HEDGE FUNDS AND RETIREMENT INSTRUMENTS, no one , nada doing anything aboutit and  The increases you say are regional, do you really think this will reverse itself in 3 months, more like a couple of years and i hope this is the beginning

 Last time I was at Dleray Beach it was not the hub of the middle class

blue collar retirement areas.

You are way too comfortable to be among the firemen,cops, sanitation workers and child care and educators , that is the group I am referring to, not people with luxury issues, I am talking about good ,hard working folks whose retirement has been burglarizedand unlike some of the arrogance shown here have to work, and some cant work at the jobs they have held for years as it beomes to dangerous for them to do so

[South FLA]

Some hedge fund managers were savvy and pulled out, many others were not so lucky.  Folks there is NO HUGE conspiracy here, so people look like they know what they are talking about are only playing Monday morning QB, because they predicted something correctly.  

Also, Sir Snook Alot said we are officially in recovery mode, so who do we thank for the quick recovery Obama or Bush?  Problem is you can't predict it correctly.  I am of the opinion that we have seen a bottom, but there are many people out there that say its still a bear market and that rise is only a positive bump in a bear market. Who is right?  Couldn't tell you.  You can look at trends, but trends don't always tell the story correctly 100% of the time.  

Also, if you are close to retirement you should be heavily vested in treasury notes and bonds!  Financial planning 101. I'm pretty conservative in my investment options. I may not make a killing during the upswings in the market, but being down 15-25% vs close to 30-45% is not so bad.  Plus my clients have cash flow from their bonds!

[SirSnookalot]

No one ever implied that recovery is a straight line up, but the lows are higher,I view that as positive,but can it turn south, you bet.  

I have been retired for the 6 years, although I still do a little business back in Michigan.  Going back 6 months ago I could not sell an oz of scrap copper, no market for it.  Within the last couple of weeks not only has the commodity price risen, but there is  a

little more demand and I'm able to move some, same scenario is true for steel. I have seen this happen before and business returns.  Scrap metal markets precede the general economy, always been that way.  The reason, factory orders are up. Yep, I'm optimistic.

I live in Delray for 1 basic reason, grandchildren, minutes away

If that weren't the case I'd be living close to the ocean.

Sure Delray has middle class and so does Boca Raton. Many areas of Delray are not what you think but  that has nothing to do with the topic.

Bush or Obama, now we are talking politics, I'll bow out of that one.

[Root beer]

Snook, you and I are alike. I pay close attentions to outputs produced by farmers and manufacturers. But my money goes into trucking and marine merchant. Once all the goods are produced they cannot sell it without transporting.   I usually pay attention to infrastructure companies. Companies that big companies pay to make things more efficiency or to help their overall operations.

[SirSnookalot]

Transportation costs are vital, cheaper cost per #or ton means one can submit a higher bid, mill prices generally run the same for everyone. For years I ran a semi load from Detroit to Ridgway Pa, 3-4 times per month and starting around 2001 fuel surcharges were added to the base transport price and to my knowledge they haven't eliminated them.

I never paid any attention to domestic produce output & cost as it wasn't my field, but my wife tells me the prices have really increased at the retail level. I know we are getting more foreign produce now as their harvesting costs are less and fewer illegal migrants coming here because of the slower economy.