I'm honestly scared now.

[Jaheff]

I know my uncle got his medical taken away from GM at the beginning of the year.He was non union upper management. That's after 30+ years. His opinion is they should go bankrupt just like any other business.

[bass or bass ?]

Don't expect the auto workers union to do anything to save jobs. The steel workers union didn't in the 70's and 80's. > The union officials don't care about the workers.All they care about is themselves, and they already have their wealth secured >. It stinks but thats the truth.     Happy fishing.

~B.A>S.S.~N.A.F.C.~BoatU.S.~N.R.A.~A.M.A.~

[SirSnookalot]

Don't the average auto worker makes 76 some dollar an hour? That should translate to 150k a year just screwing in bolts.

No one knows the exact amount as much depends on averaging in senior workers and the lesser hourly figures of newer employees.  Any accountant can't make figures dance and sing, I had a bud that was a GM accountant and that's what he told me.

Line workers do not make any where near 150K, they make like 80k plus outstanding benefits.

The problem isn't the cars, it's the legacy costs that goes into each car, they just plain make less on a car..............it's that simple.

I know many Americans are against socialized medicine, basically  biased information that the AMA and insurance co put out, but if you lost your job and health care you'd love to have it.

Many foreign car manufacturers are subsidized by their government for health care, until we do that we can never compete.

We pay for congress to have healthcare, let them pay for us.

[Root beer]

Any accountant can't make figures dance and sing, I had a bud that was a GM accountant and that's what he told me.

The problem isn't the cars, it's the legacy costs that goes into each car, they just plain make less on a car..............it's that simple.

I disagree with the first. See Enron, they could make numbers dance and sing from here to Hong Kong. ;D Ever heard of hypothetical accounting?

What exactly is the legacy cost?

[Hookemdown.]

Legacy costs are pensions, insurance, medical benefits etc. paid to the retirees.

[tyrius.]

What exactly is the legacy cost?

See hookemdown's post.

The hourly rate that people throw around (typically those from the side of the argument that want GM to be pushed into bankruptcy) is current hourly wage + current benefits + pension costs + retiree benefits.  So, it MAY cost GM $76 per worker hour, but the person standing on the line isn't getting paid $76 an hour.

[Root beer]

That what I thought, but when snook said legacy per car I thought he was actually talking about something to do with the car.

Got myself confused.  

[SirSnookalot]

Legacy costs are pensions, insurance, medical benefits etc. paid to the retirees.

Exactly !

Enron cooked their books to show profitability, what the auto companies did is this example, these numbers are no where near accurate but just an example of how they make the numbers dance.

For example, xyz co, expected to make 10 billion for the quarter but they only made 8, they may report a loss of 2 billion (20%)they made money but not what they projected. or the reverse scenario could apply. The report is accurate with no "fudging", but misleading. Wall street analysts do the same thing when they want a stock to ride or fall.

OPP = Other Peoples Possessions or Take from the rich and give to the poor.

If you're poor you need all the help you can get, if your rich you shouldn't mind, Capitalism only benefits the like of Warren Buffet, not the slob that's working 40+ hours a week to just to put food on the table.

Change ?  It's coming

slated for education 2009 around 60 billion

                            2010            135 billion

                            2011             146 billion

Healthcare reform, when you lose your insurance, you'll be glad the rich will be paying for your's

Reinstalling our standing in the world community.  Just a few changes that are happening.

On the brighter side, recovery is happening, companies that are now hiring: At&T, Amedisys, Price Waterhouse,United Amer Ins, Kmart, Aflac, Ins,United Healthcare and Sears, just to name a few.  These are not entry level jobs, but acroos the board.

[Glenn]

Remember there's a "No Politics" rule here.  I've had people complain that these threads were shut down before, but that's because people didn't heed warnings such as this one.

Fair warning.