Wish the Eagles would have won...

[Fisher of Men]

Seahawks. Still bitter about XL....

I was going to ask about that but chose against it.

Go Steelers!!

On the topic, I wish the Eagles would have won. I think McNabb is a better quarterback than the media and Philly fans care to recognize. I'd like to see him win a Super Bowl.

As much as I want to like Donavan McNabb, I have my doubts about him.  He's known to be a Christian athlete, but does alot to discredit that (i.e. trash-talking, taunting, the phone-call incident, etc.).  I guess we all struggle with humility at times.  Philly had their chance a few years ago.  Now it's someone else's turn.  Go Cards!!!

[Glenn]

Let me explain my comments about the refs:

The lousy roughing the kicker call against the Ravens, paired with the refs turning the other way on a vicious block by Sweed on Baltimore's Corey Ivey, where Sweed definitely lowers his head into Ivey, sent a clear message to the Pittsburg players who can and cannot get physical.  This lead to the hit on McGhee.

If the refs did their job, then the hit wouldn't have happened.  Clark would have pulled up, or at least tried to avoid it.

I think both Clark and Sweed should be fined and suspended.  But most likely Clark will pay a small fine, at that will be the end of it.

[BrianinMD]

I honestly don't see were either should be fined, neither hit was illegal a fine would be nothing more then a knee jerk reaction by the league. The block was a little unnecessary but not illegal. The Clark hit was a hit laid on a ballcarrier, not helmet to helmet rule there and Clark led with the should anyway....

Good news is I see that Willis left the hospital this morning.....

[Troutfisher]

That was absolutely NOT a cheap hit by any means.  Listen to the unanimous agreement by the three announcers as they discuss the hit in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaGJcfjTTFc

It's called football.  There will be hard hits and you have to take them or get off the field.  If the hit was cheap, by all means penalize the player and fine/suspend them.  But that hit was not cheap at all.  It was perfectly legal.

[Glenn]

And to add to it, the guy in charge of the PA system thought "Hm, everyone's quiet because two people are injured on the field. You know what we need? Some Creedence Clearwater Revival."

It made my disdain for the Steelers grow even wider.

[BrianinMD]

yeah, the choice of music while the players was down was asinine. Showed no respect at all.

Will be interested to hear what Willis says about the hit.  

[Jake.]

Clark learned from watching all of Hines Ward's cheap shots.....  :-X

[Dan:]

Clark learned from watching all of Hines Ward's cheap shots..... :-X

You mean Sweed? The Clark hit was on a ball carrier. Sweed's block was very similar to those hits Ward likes to do when people aren't looking his way. I'm not even sure Sweed's hit was illegal.

Why would different calls earlier in the game make Clark shy away from making a good, clean hit?

[1inStripes]

Glenn I am far from a Steelers fan, and didn't get to watch the game, so I found clips and watched them and both hits were clean.  Sweeds initial contact is with his arms, then helmet and chest.  His face mask is up and into the chest of Ivy.  Its not blocking in the back, and its not butt blocking or unnecessary roughness.  Clark leads with the shoulders, and why would it have made him second guess, TACKLING McGahee?  

Lets not be putting flags on the players, and not allow them to use their hands to block.  Thats for playground ball.  I couldnt find any justification for pulling out a yellow hanky for either one of those plays.

[Eddie Munster]

Glenn, I don't know what your issues with the Steelers are but they appear set in stone. The overwhelming consensus is that the hits were clean but we're wasting our time debating it. I guess you'll be watching reruns or something else on Feb. 1st.

[Bass Dude]

I've been an Eagles fan since the Jaworski years.  Sunday was nothing new, they are always so close, but never get over the hump.  

Being from Syracuse, I remember how great he was with our Orangemen and he is still great with Philly.  However, I do think it's better for his career to get out of Philly and go somewhere where he will be appreciated.  He is a class act and can help bring a team to the top (i.e. Vikings, Bears, Buccaneers.)  Not sure where the author of the post above was coming from where he says he taunts and trash talks.  The phone thing was dumb and he admitted that, first thing in his press conference!  But, with all the TO and Rush Limbaugh crap, he never once talked smack about either.  And I don't know of him ever talking smack about anyone and I don't think you should question his Christianity.  

[Glenn]

McGahee had just caught a pass and taken two steps before being met by Clark, who drove his helmet into McGahee's facemask. McGahee's head snapped back, and he lost the ball as he dropped to the ground.

Clark also collapsed, though it was immediately apparent that his injury wasn't serious.

Players from both teams gathered around McGahee, who lay motionless before being taken away.

Quoted from the NFL official site: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80e3a839&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The title of the story is "McGahee expected to make full recovery after helmet-to-helmet hit"

Not sure what you guys were watching, but the NFL sees it differently. Watch the video at 50 seconds in, and then you'll see it's clearly a helmet-to-helmet hit.

[Dan:]

McGahee had just caught a pass and taken two steps before being met by Clark, who drove his helmet into McGahee's facemask. McGahee's head snapped back, and he lost the ball as he dropped to the ground.

Clark also collapsed, though it was immediately apparent that his injury wasn't serious.

Players from both teams gathered around McGahee, who lay motionless before being taken away.

Quoted from the NFL official site: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80e3a839&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The title of the story is "McGahee expected to make full recovery after helmet-to-helmet hit"

Not sure what you guys were watching, but the NFL sees it differently. Watch the video at 50 seconds in, and then you'll see it's clearly a helmet-to-helmet hit.

Glenn, not all helmet to helmet hits are illegal. That was a helmet-to-helmet hit, but it was a legal one. As previously stated, if the ball carrier lowers his head into the hit, it is legal. Also, as long as the defender doesn't lead with his helmet (Clark did not) it is legal. Otherwise, they would be penalizing a defender for something the offender did and the defender couldn't control.

[mjhutch1116]

ESPN reports that Clark will not be fined for the LEGAL hit on the ravens running back.  No mention of the wide receiver Sweed's LEGAL block at all.  People are talking about the ref's favoring the Steelers with there calls.  Well what about the catch that Holmes makes down by the goal line early in the game that was ruled an incomplete pass?  He clearly caught the ball took 2 steps and then lunged for the end zone the ball was not loose until his arm hit the goal line, and the worst it should have been a catch and fumble.  Or down by contact at the 1 foot line.  The better team won, they just made more plays than the ravens did.  The refs did a poor job all around, they were not favoring one team or the other they made bad calls all the way around.

Matt

[Glenn]

That's correct, he won't be fined.  Per NFL, "Helmet-to-helmet contact is legal in that situation as it is for any ball carrier (running back, quarterback, or receiver). "

So even the NFL officials said it was a helmet-to-helmet hit.  Nothing left to argue there.

I wouldn't say the better team won.  I'd say the better team didn't come ready to play.  They didn't play at the level that got them there, Flacco played like the rookie he is, and they rightfully lost. 2/3rd the NFL could have beat them that night.

As for the helmet-to-helmet hit, That isn't football and that was a dirty hit, intended to injure. It maybe has a place in dog-fighting, but its not football in any civilized sense of the word.

It may have been ruled "legal", but it's long past time for the NFL to ban helmet-to-helmet hits by players. At a minimum, a player who uses his helmet to tackle a player, and thus as a weapon, should get a fifteen-yard roughing penalty. Ejection would be even better. You shouldn't be allowed to launch yourself head, or shoulders first with the intent to injure a player.  How is that not dirty??  

Only really foolish fans love to watch a game in which the sound of helmets crashing against one another signals yet another chance for a concussion or spinal injury. I wonder if those who chastise and ridicule people who abhor the unnecessary attempts to injure, would feel differently if it was their relative lying on the field. These comments about football players needing to be tough is a load of crap. Tough guys don't tee up on players that are basically defenseless or looking the other way.

It's just a matter of time before a catastrophic injury or death results from allowing helmet to helmet hits. But then again, this the new NFL.

Wes Welker gets fined for making a snow angel. Clark doesn't get fined for obvious intentions to cripple players.  Of course the fine given to Wes was justifiable given the dangerous nature of a snow angel.  :

Instead of the NFL getting Clark under control before he kills or paralyzes somebody they enable him by condoning his cheap-shot head-hunting. So much for the NFL's concern for player safety.

When the tragedy happens I hope Goodell will be able to look the player's family in the eyes and explain his despicable non-action.

I wonder how the NFL jives the following: When a punt returner catches the ball, he gets a yard or two, a "halo," if you will.

Yet, McGahee is NOT defenseless after he takes one or two steps, after catching a pass in which he had to be facing 180 degrees away from where the danger was coming from, and gets hit in his head by someone else who used their head as a weapon. That's NOT illegal?????

Clark launched himself, head first, right at another guy's head who couldn't get out of the way, in the fourth quarter of a game with less than 4:00 left when they had a double-digit lead.

Just get the guy to the ground and let the clock run. But he goes for the home run, and gets it, and everyone thinks it's okay? No penalty, no fine?

There was a play late in that same game that Troy Polamalu, an amazingly talented player, had a receiver lined up who he could have really hurt, but instead he hit him hard and legal with no head but a regular arm and body tackle. While Polamalu is a credit to football, Ryan Clark is a disgrace.

I guess Daryl Stingley wasn't enough. Someone's going to die on National TV, and then we'll have Congressional hearings, and the game won't be the same.

All because these geniuses can't police themselves.

[burleytog]

McGahee had just caught a pass and taken two steps before being met by Clark, who drove his helmet into McGahee's facemask. McGahee's head snapped back, and he lost the ball as he dropped to the ground.

Clark also collapsed, though it was immediately apparent that his injury wasn't serious.

Players from both teams gathered around McGahee, who lay motionless before being taken away.

Quoted from the NFL official site: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80e3a839&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The title of the story is "McGahee expected to make full recovery after helmet-to-helmet hit"

Not sure what you guys were watching, but the NFL sees it differently. Watch the video at 50 seconds in, and then you'll see it's clearly a helmet-to-helmet hit.

How do you construe a media headline as being an official NFL position?

[burleytog]

Clark doesn't get fined for obvious intentions to cripple players.

Are you serious? Your statements reveal a pathological obsession with the Pittsburgh Steelers. :

Yeah, I'm sure Clark was trying to kill McGahee. Sure thing. And if you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd love to sell you.

Yet, McGahee is NOT defenseless after he takes one or two steps, after catching a pass in which he had to be facing 180 degrees away from where the danger was coming from, and gets hit in his head by someone else who used their head as a weapon. That's NOT illegal?????

Wow, just wow.  Do you even understand the game of football?

Let's just put flags on everyone and ban tackling.   :

[Dan:]

The only reason their helmets hit was because McGahee lowered his head into the collision. You can't penalize the defenders in those situations because it isn't their fault. It was NOT intended to injure, it was intended to knock the ball loose and stop a 200+ pound RB in a full sprint from gaining more yards...and it worked. Would you rather the defenders just try to hang on to the ball carriers and hope they can drag them down with arm tackles? And I didn't see McGahee as defenseless as you did. He clearly caught the ball, turned up field, and was prepared for the hit as evidenced by his attempt to get lower than Clark.

I'm all for keeping the players safe. That's why I hate Taylor Mays at USC. He loves to crack people with his helmet. I also hate when tacklers leave their feet. It's just poor tackling form. A good tackle involves using your shoulder and running through the ball carrier. Sometimes defenders hit ball carriers with their shoulders and heads as a result, but those are accidents, and to change rules to prevent accidents would remove the defender's ability to tackle effectively. There is a point where emphasizing safety takes the physicality out of the game (just ask the old time defensemen how they feel about all the protections QBs get these days) and that takes the fun out of the game.

[thetr20one]

I believe helmet to helmet contact is legal in the NFL as long as the defender makes bodily contact first. It's easy for me to see both players were lowering their shoulders for the impact. The helmet contact was secondary. I hate the Steelers but that was a legal hit. Not in college or high school but, in the NFL it is. That is two big boys colliding at a very high rate of speed something had to give. Mcgahee is going to recover 100%.

[jack1]

I wanted the Eagles to make it back to the SB. Not an Eagles fan, but I wanted McNabb & Westbrook to get their rings.

Gosh, it's going to be a weird SB this year. Can't believe the Cardinals are in itthe Cardinals?! This was one weird season for sure. At the beginning, I picked the Chargers and Giants in the SB with the Chargers winning it.

I'm going to go with the Steelers. It's going to be one heck of a Cinderella story if the Cardinals pull it off like last year's Giants.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

Hmmm....never thought it would get to the ridiculous level it has, but since I am me, I will continue to comment.

2/3rd the NFL could have beat them that night.

I know the Seahawks are in the other 1/3, moving on...

It maybe has a place in dog-fighting, but its not football in any civilized sense of the word.

When they start drinking tea during a timeout, I will call football civilized. Anyone who has ever played beyond pee wee league knows football is not "civilized." Dog fighting? Please....

It may have been ruled "legal", but it's long past time for the NFL to ban helmet-to-helmet hits by players. At a minimum, a player who uses his helmet to tackle a player, and thus as a weapon, should get a fifteen-yard roughing penalty. Ejection would be even better. You shouldn't be allowed to launch yourself head, or shoulders first with the intent to injure a player. How is that not dirty??

I dont want people to get hurt, but contact is going to occur during the game. Trust me, you dont need to be going full speed or launch yourself to get your bell rung. Next on the list of people who can't hit with their helmet will be the linemen. The line of scrimmage is where the truly "dirty" things happen in football. You have no idea...

I am fairly certain this would be a non issue to you if it were another team.

Check the siggy....

Calm down boss, its cool. 8-)

[Glenn]

There is a point where emphasizing safety takes the fun out of the game.

Wow.  Just wow.

I'm done here.  I can't stand to argue the merits of hurting people "because it's legal" or "it's fun".  We'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Go Cards!

[Dan:]

There is a point where emphasizing safety takes the fun out of the game.

Wow. Just wow.

I'm done here. I can't stand to argue the merits of hurting people "because it's legal" or "it's fun". We'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Go Cards!

You're dramatizing it. I just meant that if you take the shoulders and head out of a hit like you want to, what you have left is people trying to arm tackle. It is an inherently dangerous game and if they keep trying to make it so no one is at risk, then the resulting game would be boring. This recent hit was an example of the inherent dangers of a game in which the goal is for one man to make the other man go to the ground.

Clark went in at chest level. McGahee lowered his head into the hit and their helmets collided. Sure Clark left his feet, but asking him to stand there as McGahee plowed into him at full speed is absolutely absurd. And that is what you are asking him to do.

Or we can make rules that keep defenders from running through ball carriers or from making contact with their torsos and only allow arm tackles. Then less people would get hurt. But then what happens when someone pulls an arm out of their socket and offenses score 70 points a game?

If you want a tamer game, may I suggest girls lacrosse?  ;D

[Eddie Munster]

The NFL has made great strides in protecting players but it IS a contact sport which is the appeal for a lot of NFL fans. Some would

say that they've gone too far when you see some of the penalties called during the games. Yeah, there are still guys out there that seem like they're trying to hurt guys out there but not in this case. Now I will say that the hit Ryan Clark put on Wes Welker earlier this year was over the top but I think he got fined for that.

Two thoughts to ponder:

The NFL decided that the hit was legal in game and by review as they have elected NOT to fine Clark for the hit on MaGahee. End of discussion as they are notorious for fining guys even if during the game there was no penalty called.

The Pittsburgh/Baltimore game Sunday was the most watched t.v. program since last the Superbowl. Reason why? People knew it would be a very physical, hard hitting game. The fans have spoken.  

[BassBandit35]

I'm with ya all the way on this Glenn. If you guys remember 3 years ago in playoff between Bengals and Steelers. They took the Bengals quarterback out of the game in early first quarter. They made late tackle and busted his knee after the ball was passed. Dirty play. Can't stand them Stealers.