When law enforcement goes too far...

[llPa1nll]

Hey all, I heard about this the other day and I just had to post it here and see what you guys all thought about this.

This is taken from the an online news source that covers Philadelphia, you can read it here

Woman who lost gun permit sues Pa. sheriff

By Martha Raffaele

Associated Press

HARRISBURG - A woman has sued a county sheriff who revoked her concealed-weapons permit after she upset fellow parents by wearing her holstered pistol to her 5-year-old daughter's soccer game.

Meleanie Hain alleges in the suit filed yesterday in federal court in Harrisburg that Lebanon County Sheriff Michael DeLeo violated her Second Amendment rights and prosecuted her maliciously when he took away her permit in September.

Hain, 30, successfully appealed the revocation last month, although the judge who restored her permit questioned her judgment and said she "scared the devil" out of others who attended the Sept. 11 soccer game.

Hain said yesterday that her home-based baby-sitting service has suffered, her children have been harassed, and she has been ostracized by her neighbors because of DeLeo's actions.

"I fought for my right, and now I'm still being punished," she said.

DeLeo's office referred questions to county attorney George Christianson, who did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.

DeLeo said at Hain's Oct. 14 appeal hearing that he pulled her license after fielding the parents' complaints. He said he based his decision on a section of state law that prohibits concealed-weapons permits from being given to people whose character and reputation make them a danger to public safety.

Hain has said she carried her handgun openly to soccer games and practices and other public places without any problem. Her attorney, Matthew Weisberg, said DeLeo had no legal right to take away her permit.

"The sheriff just rides into town and without any hearing, explanation or anything, takes away her license and forces her into court," Weisberg said.

In addition to statutory, compensatory and punitive damages, Weisberg said he was seeking a court order for DeLeo to undergo law-enforcement education.

"He needs to be educated that the complaints of a few do not compel him to suppress individual rights," Weisberg said.

Hain was joined in the lawsuit by her husband, Scott, who contends that he has lost his wife's "companionship, consortium, society and services" as a result of the harm she has suffered.

[Grey Wolf]

She definately used bad judgement and I might have agreed with her law suit until I read the part about her husband being under duress because he lost his wife's companionship , consortium , society and services.

[roadwarrior]

Hmm...

I don't know anyone who carries that removes their weapon unless hitting the clubs or entering facilities EXPRESSLY PROHIBITING firearms. To carry a weapon in the normal course of a day seems responsible to me. I view being unarmed and unable to protect yourself or your loved one's as irresponsibe. I think the Sheriff should be fired.

>

[skunked_again]

She definately used bad judgement and I might have agreed with her law suit until I read the part about her husband being under duress because he lost his wife's companionship , consortium , society and services.

i have to dissagree. the crime rate in allison hills is very nasty and like many other citys allison hills criminals spill into other citys close by(harrisburg being the biggest and closest). its clear that local government can not stop or slow down the crime in the area so this lady took the only step she could other that locking herself in doors and hoping its safe there.

like her i refuse to hide behind locked doors hoping that the current crime problems drift away like a fart in the wind. good for her says I.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Hmm...

I don't know anyone who carries that removes their weapon unless hitting the clubs or entering facilities EXPRESSLY PROHIBITING firearms. To carry a weapon in the normal course of a day seems responsible to me. I view being unarmed and unable to protect yourself or your loved one's as irresponsibe. I think the Sheriff should be fired.

 >

Bingo.  My dad had a license to carry and he (like any good parent) was at EVERY hockey and football game I ever had.

[IDbasser]

My opinion is that if you have a concealment permit, keep your gun concealed.  I carry quite often, but keep it concealed.  There is no reason to go around showing off the gun, that is asking for trouble.

[FD.]

I agree with IDbasser.  She had a permit to carry concealed, she should have had it concealed.  If you are carrying in a holster you are either trying to make a statement or just stupid.

[skunked_again]

My opinion is that if you have a concealment permit, keep your gun concealed. I carry quite often, but keep it concealed. There is no reason to go around showing off the gun, that is asking for trouble.

i agree, that to the ppl who panic easy seeing a concealed firearm is a tricky deal. even if she made no attemp to cover the firearm shes still well within the law even if she doesnt have a CCP.  being questioned by the public when im armed is part of training. there are questions that will surely be asked of you including a visit for the police from time to time. this whole event was poorly handled from beginning to end.

and whats to be done to the local police for clearly going over the line?

[moby bass]

From what I know, you must have a permit for concealed carry.  There is nothing specifically written in the law in PA as to whether open carry is legal or not. Therefore, since not specifically prohibited, open carry is legal, except in Philadelphia where a permit is required for either.

[skunked_again]

From what I know, you must have a permit for concealed carry. There is nothing specifically written in the law in PA as to whether open carry is legal or not. Therefore, since not specifically prohibited, open carry is legal, except in Philadelphia where a permit is required for either.

and philly leads the state in hand gun murders. i dont think open carry laws affect that stat but it shows whos got the guns and using them.

[thetr20one]

Hmm...

I don't know anyone who carries that removes their weapon unless hitting the clubs or entering facilities EXPRESSLY PROHIBITING firearms. To carry a weapon in the normal course of a day seems responsible to me. I view being unarmed and unable to protect yourself or your loved one's as irresponsibe. I think the Sheriff should be fired.

>

You are right on the money here. I completely agree. I do hold a CCW permit. I carry often with the sole purpose to protect my family. When I am with a group of fellas it stays in the safe. I also respect any business which do not allow concealed carry. My own workplace being one of them!

[Grey Wolf]

What about the part of the law suit pretaining to her husband , don't you think thats at least a little off base ?

As I said earlier his part in the law suit makes a mockery out of a legimate case she has.

If I understand his part of the suit  , she's having problems dealing with her every day functions regarding their marriage and every day life.

Come on give me a break. Their taking a good case which they have an excellant chance to win and trying to get every last dime they can out of the system. Shame on her.

[IDbasser]

Was she carrying for protection, or for making a statement?

People who are issued CCP are supposed to be law abiding and responsible.  I do not think she was being responsible in her actions.

[skunked_again]

What about the part of the law suit pretaining to her husband , don't you think thats at least a little off base ?

As I said earlier his part in the law suit makes a mockery out of a legimate case she has.

If I understand his part of the suit , she's having problems dealing with her every day functions regarding their marriage and every day life.

Come on give me a break. Their taking a good case which they have an excellant chance to win and trying to get every last dime they can out of the system. Shame on her.

just wondering, do you think the whole thing could have been avoided by upholding the current laws in the state? the only involvement the police/local law enforcement should have had in the case was "are a CCP holder miss?". after noting shes well within the law its have a nice day. the local law enforcement clearly made a "statement" out of this issue.

as far as the husbands part in the law suit its a possible case for tick for tack. if its illrelivant i hope its ruled that way.

this is my last post on the issue. its clear we agree to disagree. i carry very little myself. part is due to imo not enough training on my part. i assume anyone who does carry has trained enough that they can, under great stress, arm him or herself without shooting their foot off and not shoot wildly as they align on the threat. that the person also knows what down range of their shot. ive seen nothing that states this lady is any of these things. shes guilty of letting her gun show. is that worth all of this ?

[Grey Wolf]

What about the part of the law suit pretaining to her husband , don't you think thats at least a little off base ?

As I said earlier his part in the law suit makes a mockery out of a legimate case she has.

If I understand his part of the suit , she's having problems dealing with her every day functions regarding their marriage and every day life.

Come on give me a break. Their taking a good case which they have an excellant chance to win and trying to get every last dime they can out of the system. Shame on her.

just wondering, do you think the whole thing could have been avoided by upholding the current laws in the state? the only involvement the police/local law enforcement should have had in the case was "are a CCP holder miss?". after noting shes well within the law its have a nice day. the local law enforcement clearly made a "statement" out of this issue.

as far as the husbands part in the law suit its a possible case for tick for tack. if its illrelivant i hope its ruled that way.

this is my last post on the issue. its clear we agree to disagree. i carry very little myself. part is due to imo not enough training on my part. i assume anyone who does carry has trained enough that they can, under great stress, arm him or herself without shooting their foot off and not shoot wildly as they align on the threat. that the person also knows what down range of their shot. ive seen nothing that states this lady is any of these things. shes guilty of letting her gun show. is that worth all of this ?

What are we disagreeing on. She was perfectly in her right to carry the weapon , she had her permit. The sheriff was totally wrong.

The part about her not being able to cope with her every day responsibilities and causing lost companionship with her husband due to this incident is the crap I'm referring to.

[skunked_again]

What about the part of the law suit pretaining to her husband , don't you think thats at least a little off base ?

As I said earlier his part in the law suit makes a mockery out of a legimate case she has.

If I understand his part of the suit , she's having problems dealing with her every day functions regarding their marriage and every day life.

Come on give me a break. Their taking a good case which they have an excellant chance to win and trying to get every last dime they can out of the system. Shame on her.

just wondering, do you think the whole thing could have been avoided by upholding the current laws in the state? the only involvement the police/local law enforcement should have had in the case was "are a CCP holder miss?". after noting shes well within the law its have a nice day. the local law enforcement clearly made a "statement" out of this issue.

as far as the husbands part in the law suit its a possible case for tick for tack. if its illrelivant i hope its ruled that way.

this is my last post on the issue. its clear we agree to disagree. i carry very little myself. part is due to imo not enough training on my part. i assume anyone who does carry has trained enough that they can, under great stress, arm him or herself without shooting their foot off and not shoot wildly as they align on the threat. that the person also knows what down range of their shot. ive seen nothing that states this lady is any of these things. shes guilty of letting her gun show. is that worth all of this ?

What are we disagreeing on. She was perfectly in her right to carry the weapon , she had her permit. The sheriff was totally wrong.

The part about her not being able to cope with her every day responsibilities and causing lost companionship with her husband due to this incident is the crap I'm referring to.

ok.

as far as her husband goes like i said i assume a judge will hear the facts and make the correct ruling........ :-X :-X

on a side note had she not gotten her CCP back she could have openly carried.

irony

[=Matt 5.0=]

I prefer knives...

[Bassn Blvd]

Each State has different laws on CCF but having a CCF license does NOT allow you to openly carry it.

I won't second guess what the Sheriff did but what real harm was done to the lady. Perhaps the Sheriff would have done nothing when he received the complaint and the lady unjustifiably shot someone? Then the Sheriff would have been screwed.

No one would have known she had a gun if she kept it concealed or her mouth shut. If it wasn't concealed then she committed a crime, in Florida anyways.

And if the neighborhood was such a "bad" place to be that you needed to carry a gun, then why in the world would you allow your 5 year old kid to play there?

Here is a list of places you cannot carry concealed even if you have a permit.

The following is a list of places where you are restricted from carrying a weapon or firearm even if you have a license. Please note that this is a simplified list. The places marked by an asterisk (*) may have exceptions or additional restrictions. See Section 790.06 (12), Florida Statutes for a complete listing.

      o any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05

      o any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station

      o any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse

      o any courtroom*

      o any polling place

      o any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district

      o any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof

      o any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms

      o any school administration building

      o any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*

      o any elementary or secondary school facility

      o any area technical center

      o any college or university facility*

      o inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*

      o any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

I prefer knives...

BS, you prefer hugs.... :

[DEISWERTH]

Hmm...

I don't know anyone who carries that removes their weapon unless hitting the clubs or entering facilities EXPRESSLY PROHIBITING firearms. To carry a weapon in the normal course of a day seems responsible to me. I view being unarmed and unable to protect yourself or your loved one's as irresponsibe. I think the Sheriff should be fired.

x2

>

[burleytog]

That woman did nothing wrong.

And thank God open carry usually doesn't get a second look in VA.  In 8 years of open carrying, I've only gotten one comment.  And that was positive.

[bass wrangler569]

That woman did nothing wrong.

And thank God open carry usually doesn't get a second look in VA. In 8 years of open carrying, I've only gotten one comment. And that was positive.

Amen. She was completely within her legal right.

[justfishin]

I fully feel that someone with a permit should be able to carry anywhere they want. I would like to see a law that requires all background checked citizens whom care to, carry protection. That being said, I do think that to carry a gun in the open to a kids game was a little much. Concealed, yes, out in the open was a tad poor judgement. JMO. I have always carried unless prohibited but, rarely in the open, unless I am in a area where I want to make a statement in which is rare. I have never pulled my gun or flashed it but, if it means protecting my family I will, period. Lets hope that never happens.---Jim

[KU_Bassmaster.]

Yes I think she was well with in her right to carry.

Openly? At a kids soccer game?  I guess that is debatable.

About her home based baby sitting service suffering ... She made a decision.  Whether is was right or wrong, a smart business person would know that image means a lot.  Guns are a sticky subject in the country.  For her not to see how that could potentially harm her business is just her fault.  No one to blame but herself.

[Tom Bass]

I find it fascinating how people react when a citizen of this country who is not military or law enforcement possesses a firearm in public, regardless of the venue or the surroundings. Me personally? I would not expose my weapon at an event such as a soccer game unless it was absolutely warranted. Perhaps this woman felt it was necessary in her situation. I don't now about her situation.

The Second Amendment wasn't written for our debate. It is what it is. Some of our states and municipalities choose to ignore that with their constituent's permission, or their view of what their constituents want. That seems to be the way it is across the United States.

She was stupid but within her rights in my opinion.