Roger Clemens and Steroids???

[bocabasser]

Lets call Selig what he is A Sellout Owner disguised as a Commish. They knew about this during the HR single year chases and dragged their Butts until that and Aarons records fell and they collected all those ticket. I aint buying the Selig for Saithood stuff for a minute

couldn't agree more. if this was the NFL they would have been suspended for a minimum of 6 games. roger godell does not play. selig needs to go! there are too many good young players in the minors who are begging for a spot. i don't care how GOOD a player is i.e. clemens, bonds, sosa etc. cheating is cheating and it sends the wrong message to young kids aspiring to become a big-leaguer.

[Guest muddy]

You can read the whole Mitchell Report on line! The one thing that I am uncomfortable about, is putting guys out there without there day in court. The trainer who gave a lot of info, did so as a plea agreement in another FED>CRIMINAL TRIAL. While a lot of the material is not sensational, and the investigation seems to be following the right lines, there may be a better way of doing this, until these guys are at least disiplined or served with warrnats, becuase that makes it more credible, but not neccessarily true.

[Matt Fly]

I did some research on Golden boys career.    MLB.com if anyone wants to know where I got my facts from.

First off, how many 38 year old bodies come back from the dead?   Clemens career was all but over.       Check his career out from 90 till 96.

You will see his innings pitched went spriraling down,   era was around 5.1    only pitched in 141 innings.

Again, don't have the facts in front of me, but very close.  

 Guess who became a RedSox in 95?   No one other than Jose Canseco.  

Guess whos career turned around in 95. ERA dropped into the 1.?   Innings increased upto like 240 something.

Guess where his next stop was?   Toronto, and guess who ended up in Toronto with Clemens.       Jose Canseco.

   Just look at the numbers,     No man can do what he did with his body and career.     Clemens become a new pitcher.    His era continued to drop, and we all know what kind of a  SECOND CAREER he's had.     This man has two seperate careers, both with HOF numbers.

Anybody want to look at Gagne's career.   Who might have been in his locker room.

         The police, FBI, CIA, and others always say, it takes a thief to catch a thief.    True.            Jose' Book is 10 for 10.      I no longer think Jose lied just to make money.           I think his book and info turned out to be just as he said in his book.   FACT.

Any doubts, just go back and look at the time line.    His career was pretty much over, until Jose showed up.

      Mistake number #2 on Clemens part,     Coming out, and crying slander, means you are gonna sue, right?       Any bets?    Will he?        

      Did Barry Bonds ever sue?   He denied it all the time, yet no slander suit?   Don't make sense, it sure wasn't because they can't afford to.

   Just food for thought,

[Tin]

Very interesting point Fly. I'm too young to remeber those days but it makes sense to me.

[Bassn Blvd]

And e all gave Barry a hard time

[cart7t]

I don't think the question is whether you pursue those "name" players on the list.  I don't see much point in it.   I think the question is how MLB now handles those players and their records, if any and their potential inductance into the HOF.  If Pete Rose can be denied his place I don't know how guys who basically cheated by using Enhancing drugs, legal or not, can be allowed in or their records treated as untainted.

How do you asterick an entire decade or more of MLB in the record books?  Do you?  Is Bonds home run record worthy of the same stature as Henry Aarons?

[Cajun1977]

its all in the eyes of the beholder enhance or not,legal or not, its still not easy to do what roger and barry have done and i will view their records as the rightful ones

[Matt Fly]

The time lines are in place, you can see certain careers where bottomed out, the next step was being cut or released, and then all of a sudden, these guys start putting up Hall of Fame numbers.

Jose Canseco was a Dirty RAT, and all his stories are playing out to be very true. Funny how every place Jose showed up, and all those so called super stars that were in bad slumps, career ending slumps for a long period with some, and then their careers took off.

     It almost looked as if Clubs just wanted him for modern chemistry, its not like he got a lot of time on the field in his later stops in the Majors. Sure was a long list of players that were his team mates at one time or another that had turn arounds.

Baseball took too long to do anything. They deserve the black eye!!!!

Even if Baseball didn't have a ban on those substances, it was against the Law of the United States.      

I'm tired of hearing it wasn't a banned substance by MLB at that time!!!! It was still an illegal susbstance in the eyes of the Law.

     

[nboucher]

The best result the Mitchell report can have is to move the discussion of illegal drugs in baseball further along. For example, as Jason Stark hints at on ESPN.com, it would be useful start figuring out whether all offenses are alike, or whether someone using HGH to recover from an injury is the same as a healthy player taking steroids to get stronger. And what about greenies, which are still used widely today? Should they get the same slam as steroids?

Given what players can legally take to recover from injury, I, for one, am willing to cut a player some slack on the HGH issue if the use can be shown to have been short-term and during the recovery phase. (That's a difference between Pettite and Giambi or Bonds, for example.)

And, yes, people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and the Mitchell report is largely based on one individual, as many of you have pointed out. It wouldn't fly in court, I think.

[Matt Fly]

If for medical reasons, there would be doctors note for such and those should not have been included period.   Investigatins would have shown that and no reason to bring those name up.

HGH isn't even a legal substance.     There are no pharmacies to fill that script out.    

    There aren't any known tests to detect it.      You can have guys still using HGH and no way to test for it.

Why do you think MLB wants to hire Olympic Doctors to help develope testing procedures?     To stop the usage!!!!

If it helped Barry hit 200 more homeruns, then he cheated the rightfull owner of that prestigous record of Hanks.    

I grew up with baseball, the Astros and Rangers and baseball has alot of cleaning up before I come back.   Records too!