barry bonds may be cheating...

[Lightninrod]

by using a special apparatus...

[Hookemdown.]

Very interesting if that is true...

[Cajun1977]

geez some people have to look for anything to hate on someone.

[cart7t]

by using a special apparatus...

You'd have thought the drugs would've been enough.

Would he have even hit half the homers without steroids and mechanical aids?

[Guest avid]

I don't care if he went to the plate as Darth Vader.

If there ain't a rule against it then it ain't cheatin'

There were 4 umpires and an oppossing manager every time he stepped up to hit.

He was permitted by all to take his "at bat"

Jeez,  and Wheakley thoought he had it rough.

[burleytog]

I don't care if he went to the plate as Darth Vader.

If there ain't a rule against it then it ain't cheatin'

There were 4 umpires and an oppossing manager every time he stepped up to hit.

He was permitted by all to take his "at bat"

Jeez, and Wheatley thoought he had it rough.

There is a rule against it.  His 'device' has been grandfathered in by MLB.

[KU_Bassmaster.]

So according to that, any "average" major leaguer could wear that elbow guard and put up Barry Bond type numbers? :-/  

 

[cart7t]

So according to that, any "average" major leaguer could wear that elbow guard and put up Barry Bond type numbers? :-/  

 

If, the scientology of the device is true, according to the article, in theory yes.  As the article indicated, Bonds, without the device in the homerun derbies isn't any better than anyone else even though he's basically getted served up softball type pitches.  He's incapable of reproducing the same swing plane everytime he takes a cut at the ball.   It's no different than a golfer using a device that would allow him to reproduce the swing plane the same way everytime he comes up to hit the ball. The reason golf is such a difficult sport to master is because the swing requires pretty precise timing of body mechanics.  Trying to reproduce that everytime you strike the ball is difficult.  Even the pro's have streaks where they just lose control of their swing mechanics.  

[Guest avid]

There is a rule against it.  His 'device' has been grandfathered in by MLB.

then he did not break the rule.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

by using a special apparatus...

I am truly surprised that Muddy didnt have a comment for "special apparatus"  

[Guest avid]

by using a special apparatus...

I am truly surprised that Muddy didnt have a comment for "special apparatus"  

He must be asleep

thanks for lightning up the thread.

[Dan:]

I don't buy it. If Barry hit every ball over the plate in the exact same way then I might be suspicious but he often times rolls over the ball or gets under it too much and pops up or grounds out. If this thing were a swinging machine that produced the same stroke every time that wouldn't happen on pitches over the plate.

Most of those "6 advantages" are stretches anyway. Like the extra weight being an advantage in power behind the ball and the flap keeping his arm in that keeps him from only using his arms in his swing. Most major league batters keep their front arm in to drive the ball, especially on inside pitches. And the part about it making his swings ultra consistent--major leaguers spend hours and hours in the batting cage trying to get their swing to be the same everytime. When I played ball I could go in the cage and have the same swing every pitch easily. The hitter's goal is to make their swing as mechanically sound as possible and then practice that swing as much as possible to commit it to muscle memory.

[Guest avid]

I think we are missing a crucial point here.

Namely, that BB is bringing Big Bucks into the game right now.

Kinda like Muhammad Ali.  People would buy tickets hoping to see him get his brains knocked out.

Point is LOTSA people paid LOTSA money.

I'm also reminded of Michael Jordan.

the man who single handedly effectively eliminated the "travelling" rule from pro basketball.

Why?  Because people loved to watch his aerial assualt on the net from mid court.  He needed an extra step or two to get airborne, and the owners soon realized, that he was making them all rich(er)  so they put the word out to the refs, and Michael had special privileges.  Also, a defensivive player couldn't breathe on him too hard without getting a foul call.

Again, the man was not just good for his team........He was good for the enitre business, yes business.

Children play games.

Pro sports is business, Big, fat, juicy, multi billion dollar business.

And right now Barry Bonds, is raking in major $$$$$ for the entire industry.

Sorry guys,  But it' a grown up world.

[Hookemdown.]

I think we are missing a crucial point here.

Namely, that BB is bringing Big Bucks into the game right now.

Kinda like Muhammad Ali.  People would buy tickets hoping to see him get his brains knocked out.

Point is LOTSA people paid LOTSA money.

I'm also reminded of Michael Jordan.

the man who single handedly effectively eliminated the "travelling" rule from pro basketball.

Why?  Because people loved to watch his aerial assualt on the net from mid court.  He needed an extra step or two to get airborne, and the owners soon realized, that he was making them all rich(er)  so they put the word out to the refs, and Michael had special privileges.  Also, a defensivive player couldn't breathe on him too hard without getting a foul call.

Again, the man was not just good for his team........He was good for the enitre business, yes business.

Children play games.

Pro sports is business, Big, fat, juicy, multi billion dollar business.

And right now Barry Bonds, is raking in major $$$$$ for the entire industry.

Sorry guys,  But it' a grown up world.

Avid, you make a great point there.  As sad as it seems,  Barry may be good for the "business", more than he is bad for the tradition.

[cart7t]

I think we are missing a crucial point here.

Pro sports is business, Big, fat, juicy, multi billion dollar business.

And right now Barry Bonds, is raking in major $$$$$ for the entire industry.

Sorry guys,  But it' a grown up world.

Which is why I don't care much for baseball, or many other pro sports anymore.

Selling the integrity of the game away for a buck is about as low as you can go.

What does that say about "America's pasttime"??  

[fish-fighting-illini]

 Avid I see your point but for me personaly not just Bonds but the Mcguire deal, Sosa, Palmiero and others turns my stomach. I for one have taken my money elsewhere. Unless enough people do it won't make a difference but maybe more will. I'll take my money up to the Little League park instead. I can buy popcorn, hot dogs & drinks for the kids for less than it costs for MLB parking.

Just my preference with my money not my place to "tell" anyone else wht to do. In "my book" they cheated and I don't care to watch them.

[Dan:]

I dunno, I can go see a game for about $20 if I wanted to. Granted that would include me taking the metro so there would be no fees for parking and I would have crappy seats and I would be watching the Nationals but still, there's something to say about the experience of a major league game that other games can't provide.

That being said, I much prefer watching college and even high school baseball. The games are usually more intense and are usually much more about the love of baseball than major league games are.

[senile1]

I think we are missing a crucial point here.

Namely, that BB is bringing Big Bucks into the game right now.

Kinda like Muhammad Ali.  People would buy tickets hoping to see him get his brains knocked out.

Point is LOTSA people paid LOTSA money.

I'm also reminded of Michael Jordan.

the man who single handedly effectively eliminated the "travelling" rule from pro basketball.

Why?  Because people loved to watch his aerial assualt on the net from mid court.  He needed an extra step or two to get airborne, and the owners soon realized, that he was making them all rich(er)  so they put the word out to the refs, and Michael had special privileges.  Also, a defensivive player couldn't breathe on him too hard without getting a foul call.

Again, the man was not just good for his team........He was good for the enitre business, yes business.

Children play games.

Pro sports is business, Big, fat, juicy, multi billion dollar business.

And right now Barry Bonds, is raking in major $$$$$ for the entire industry.

Sorry guys,  But it' a grown up world.

In most cases, you would be correct, Avid, but I don't think this necessarily applies in Bonds' case.  He is jeered at every ballpark except for Pac Bell, his home park.  Many people don't want Bonds to break the record and many just don't want to watch him because they know it is a foregone conclusion the record will be broken, and they hate that fact.  Right now, I think he is hurting business as much as he is helping it.  Reporters and people who want to say they were there when the record was broken are flocking to the ballpark.  The rest of us are disappointed in the travesty that Barry Bonds has become.

[Guest avid]

Reporters and people who want to say they were there when the record was broken are flocking to the ballpark.  

Remember Muhammad ali  

People HATED him.  If you were around at the time, you recall, this man was despised my the mainstream american public.

but they paid and they paid, and muhammad ali is now a wealthy legendary icon.

it don't matter why they make you rich.    So long as they do.

The #'s are clear.

Barry is bringing huge sums into the business of baseball. Maybe not yours.  but the volume is mind boggling.

[senile1]

Reporters and people who want to say they were there when the record was broken are flocking to the ballpark.  

Remember Muhammad ali  

People HATED him.  If you were around at the time, you recall, this man was despised my the mainstream american public.

but they paid and they paid, and muhammad ali is now a wealthy legendary icon.

it don't matter why they make you rich.    So long as they do.

The #'s are clear.

Barry is bringing huge sums into the business of baseball. Maybe not yours.  but the volume is mind boggling.

I do see that this applies to Ali.  Everyone that disliked him watched the fights because they wanted to see him get clubbed.  Now, if they would allow every pitcher that faces Bonds to try to bean him a couple of times a game, I think that would bring in the crowds.   :

[Cigarlover 1]

I do see that this applies to Ali. Everyone that disliked him watched the fights because they wanted to see him get clubbed. Now, if they would allow every pitcher that faces Bonds to try to bean him a couple of times a game, I think that would bring in the crowds. :

Now that I would pay to see.  ;D

[KU_Bassmaster.]

I think we are missing a crucial point here.

Namely, that BB is bringing Big Bucks into the game right now.

Kinda like Muhammad Ali. People would buy tickets hoping to see him get his brains knocked out.

Point is LOTSA people paid LOTSA money.

I'm also reminded of Michael Jordan.

the man who single handedly effectively eliminated the "travelling" rule from pro basketball.

Why? Because people loved to watch his aerial assualt on the net from mid court. He needed an extra step or two to get airborne, and the owners soon realized, that he was making them all rich(er) so they put the word out to the refs, and Michael had special privileges. Also, a defensivive player couldn't breathe on him too hard without getting a foul call.

Again, the man was not just good for his team........He was good for the enitre business, yes business.

Children play games.

Pro sports is business, Big, fat, juicy, multi billion dollar business.

And right now Barry Bonds, is raking in major $$$$$ for the entire industry.

Sorry guys, But it' a grown up world.

In most cases, you would be correct, Avid, but I don't think this necessarily applies in Bonds' case. He is jeered at every ballpark except for Pac Bell, his home park. Many people don't want Bonds to break the record and many just don't want to watch him because they know it is a foregone conclusion the record will be broken, and they hate that fact. Right now, I think he is hurting business as much as he is helping it. Reporters and people who want to say they were there when the record was broken are flocking to the ballpark. The rest of us are disappointed in the travesty that Barry Bonds has become.

Did you happen to see the special they did on Bonds maybe a month ago?? Pretty interesting .... and it addressed that very thing.

He said yes I hear the boos everywhere I go. If people really hated him that much, they would turn their back while he is at bat. But do they ..... no. They take pictures. Deep down inside, I think lots of people who attended his games on the road would have liked to see him hit a homerun. They realized they had a chance to see something special.

And what about the cheers when he tied the record in San Diego?

[Cigarlover 1]

I think Barry has a point somewhat. I also think some of his point is his ego talking. He likes to think they all those people booing him and taking pictures are doing it because it's him. I think they're doing it because it's baseball and they know they're watching baseball history. I for one can't stand Barry Bonds, steroids aside. I think he has a crappy attitude and I can't stand his personality from what I've seen through the media. Was I watching last night. You bet. Not because I like Barry Bonds but because I love baseball and when you talk about baseball history the Home Run record is about as big as it gets.

To get back to the topic of Barry cheating. The elbow protector theory is IMO about as far fetched as you can get. I would have to see scientific proof that an elbow protector can enhance a swing that much.

As for the steriods issue. I think he did use steroids. Unfortunately has was not busted. Baseball is a numbers game. His number of home runs is 756 and right now he is technically innocent of using steroids. As much as people hate that just the way it is. I think it should all be dropped until/if it is ever found that he did in fact use steroids.

[KU_Bassmaster.]

Pretty much word for word the way I feel Cigarlover. I also think the media has played a big role in shaping his personality. In his press conference last night after the game some reporters were asking him questions about steroids and blah blah blah. He replied with attacks back at them. Which I thought were warranted. It's not the time or place to be asking those questions.

[Cigarlover 1]

Yeah, I just get so frustrated with the whole steroid thing. I love baseball and hate to see it tarnished but the fact of the matter is that the majority of players are using something to enhance their skills. Barry Bonds just happens to be passing a milestone and has an easy attitude to not like.

Here's some food for thought. What would the guys back in the 20s, and 30s done if they had so much access to enhancers that the guys today have?  :