12 gauge v Snapping Turtle

[John J.]

I am ethical when it comes to helping other bodies of water, but yet when it comes to our privately owned pond, I listen to what my parents want and not what I think is ethical. They wanted me to get rid of it, and therefore I did.

If you think it was unethical, what would you have done?

[Guest avid]

Sorry I didn't come back with a further statement sooner.  As you get to know who's who on the site you'll know who replies, and give them a little time, if that's what required on any particular day.

I reacted to the apparant disdain you showed for a living creature.  Snapping turtles are a part of the lake envirionment.  They serve their purpose same as the gators and the snakes, and the water birds.

A bass has no greater right to the water than the turtle does.

Now please,  I'm trying to be reasonable here.  I'm no bunny hugger, and if the pond were overrun with turtles I would say cull them just as I would when a pond is overrun with bream.

But culling an out of controll population is healthy for an ecosystem and benefits all the critters.  Blowing away a turtle and seeking to justify it as a "benefit" is rationalizning the fact that you found it fun to kill shoot the critter.    

You asked for an explanation, and I see that as a very positive thing.  It tells me that your a kid who did something that he thought was fun without really thinking it through.

You have heard from people who support what you did and a few who didn't.  This is how we learn.  We keep an open mind, listen to the different sides of a discussion and make an informed decision.

Just look inside yourself and without predjudice one way or the other, examine how you really feel about killing that turtle and throwing it away.

[FishingBuds]

More likely around my house I shoot to kill, thats thats about it.

Well you do have that annoying DEER season I tend to get involved with, annoying 4 legged creatures!

Oops forgot those annoying gobblers I tend to trick to come in and then WHAMMO, they shut up then.

But, the fish - boy oh boy I won't go there.

I Agree Avid,

John I was hopeing you'd read between the lines here(my humor gets the best of me) First around the house means pertecting the family around the house-having a pond 2 acres over to me is not "around the house" besides a pond is a blessing and has issues with it.(I know first hand) so only will I choose to terminate something if I feel that my kids or wife could get harmed.

Second, third and last point means this-I take Deer and Turkey along with fish for a reason, I EAT THEM!, thats it, I have a reason for it. I have not taken anything just to take it. Plus I do not comment over and over the love of a gun with 00 buck shot(concern here).

Bubba, a snapping turtle in a pond isn't much of a reason for me to shoot when its located 2 acres over. If I lived right on the pond I'd be to nerveuos for my kids sake so, well I wouldn't live right on a pond-settled

There ya go

[Fish Man]

in my post earlier about the snake i thought i would ad that it wasnt killed just for the sake of killing it,as i have stated in many posts the pond is right in my cousins back yard and he had been seeing the snake alot and was already nervouse about it being near his two young daughters and after it had acted agressivly towards us before the incident, he had made up his mind to ahve us get him next time we saw it because he didnt want anyone (us or his family) being biten by it,,kinda goes along with fishingbuds post above  

[Sean_e_bus_21]

hey you think that is a nuisance jsut look at the size of this one my friends caught laast summer..... and therre is no way that a turtle like that could catch a bass it's way to slow

Sean

[Guest ncbass24]

Personally, I hate snapping turtles.

They get caught in my lines, steal my senkos and hooks, and even devoured a beat up, bedding bass right in front of my eyes.

As for you shooting it, I can see why you did it. As for you guys who thought it wasn't ethical, I can see why you said that also.

But Avid is right, that turtle had just as much of a reason to live as any bass does.

[Sean_e_bus_21]

hey you think that is a nuisance jsut look at the size of this one my friends caught laast summer..... and therre is no way that a turtle like that could catch a bass

Sean

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/catfishguy/turtle4.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/catfishguy/turtle3.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/catfishguy/turtle1.jpg

[Fish Man]

i bet that thing is ALOT faster than you think,and it probobly could catch a bass,not an adult but a young stupid one or just slowly move up on them

[FL_fisher]

Snapping turtles hardly ever eat bass or even bait fish.

Snapping turtles are good for the bass population, and for the intire pond itself.

How are snapping turtles good for bass, if you say they never eat any smaller bass or baitfish? The only way I could see snapping turtles being good for bass is if they ate some of the smaller bass, therefore reducing the overall population and making the remaining bass larger. However,you say they don't do that though... :-?

Troutfisher, this is exactly what I asked, but yet even though I ask for an explaination, they don't give one...I asked for one earlier...

I am not trying to be a jerk or create any problems, but I would really like to hear some insight on other's opinions rather than tell me that it's bad to kill them because they rot and it's a waste and it's bad for the environment, etc. and then leave it at that.

And besides there are things we do in every day life that is bad for the environment. When I kill a turtle and throw it into the woods, it will create a food item for any scavangers. If I kill the turtle and leave him in the pond, all he will do is contaminate the pond. Yet if I don't kill him, all he will do is reproduce, spread like rabbits and take over, therefore smothering out all the species of fish (if they don't eat them which I KNOW they do!) and becoming a nuisance.

Troutfisher, you and me see eye to eye on this. 8-)

God bless

How about 90% of their diet is dead things and even plants, the less dead things the less chance for diseases which would kill WAY more fish than the turtle would ever be able to.

[John J.]

Sorry I didn't come back with a further statement sooner. As you get to know who's who on the site you'll know who replies, and give them a little time, if that's what required on any particular day.

I reacted to the apparant disdain you showed for a living creature. Snapping turtles are a part of the lake envirionment. They serve their purpose same as the gators and the snakes, and the water birds.

A bass has no greater right to the water than the turtle does.

Now please, I'm trying to be reasonable here. I'm no bunny hugger, and if the pond were overrun with turtles I would say cull them just as I would when a pond is overrun with bream.

But culling an out of controll population is healthy for an ecosystem and benefits all the critters. Blowing away a turtle and seeking to justify it as a "benefit" is rationalizning the fact that you found it fun to kill shoot the critter.

You asked for an explanation, and I see that as a very positive thing. It tells me that your a kid who did something that he thought was fun without really thinking it through.

You have heard from people who support what you did and a few who didn't. This is how we learn. We keep an open mind, listen to the different sides of a discussion and make an informed decision.

Just look inside yourself and without predjudice one way or the other, examine how you really feel about killing that turtle and throwing it away.

Avid, I thought it through before I took action. I discussed it with my parents, they plainly didn't want this turtle in the pond. I think it would have been best if I kept this confidential, as it is starting up a heap of mess. For gods sakes, it is a single turtle! I didn't shoot it for fun, I didn't shoot it just for the enjoyment, I shot it because I believed it was a nuisance. I never seen any bass or fish dead before until he started to pop his head up above the surface of the pond.

Now fishin buds, I did read your post, but I took what you said on a different route. When you stated that you shoot to kill around the house, I thought you meant you did what I did, and you shot to get rid of any pests/problems. Now with deer, turkey, etc. we shoot for the meat. Our fridge is full of deer meat and we haven't eaten it yet, my parents still hunt (even though we have a freezer full of meat) and I won't because I feel that we need to eat the deer meat in the freezer before slaying any more. What I was saying before about the deer was that, they are a nuisance, eating the garden, etc. And no I am not going to shoot them because of that because it is illegal, it is not hunting season...

Now about the thing with the 12 gauge, I am not no freak, I do not enjoy killing things for no reason. I like that shotgun because it was given to me by my father, who it was passed down from his father (my granpa), it is a fairly old gun, and for him to give it to me is truly a gift. I take care of that gun as much as I can, and sometimes (like in this case) brag about it (because I didn't have to buy it).

I know I've said things in this discussion that make people think negative about me (unethical, etc.) But all I did was listen to my folks, and I wanted to hear what you guys thought about this (why I posted it). I don't blame you for posting your opinions, but it was getting out of hand when everyone was saying I was in the wrong and I am unethical, etc. I know that's opinions, but I just wanted to clarify that I am ethical and that I do respect nature.

Without a doubt these turtles are fast enough to possibly kill bass. They use the same technique; ambush.

Now I hope this thread doesn't end with people thinking I am nuts, a sadistic, crazy teenage boy. Because in reality, I am not. I've built up a reputation for being respectful and honest. This will be no different.

I wish everyone the best!

God bless  8-)

[Troutfisher]

John, you don't need to provide an explanation for killing the turtle, at least not for me.  If I believed nuisance "snappers" were in my pond and killing bass and baitfish, I would have done the same thing, and so would 90% of the people who live around me.

[John J.]

OH! And I did fail to mention the pond is no more than 50 yards from the house. My nephew does fish it and so does my parents. Now I do agree with yalls post and I can understand your points of view.

Avid I am sorry I didn't give you enough time to reply, I was a little anxious for someone to reply a reason why that turtle is any good to the pond. I do not know much about snappers (I stated that before) and I do not know what their diet truly is. But my parents do know, and they wanted me to kill it. I will do more research on the snapping turtle and see what I get. But from what i've heard, they are extremely aggressive, in most parts are a nuisance and can be very dangerous!

My dad had experiences with snapping turtles. When he was a kid he used to fish a pond that was totally overloaded with snappers. It seemed like every cast he took he hooked into one. So with permission from the pond owners, he went out and starting to kill as many as he could. He then noticed that the fishin was getting better!

Troutfisher, I do thank you for backing me up. But there are some people here that posted that believe what I did was wrong. All I am trying to do is explain why I did so and my reasoning why.

God bless all!  8-)

[Valascus]

Some of the posts here have been nice in showing their disapproval of this...this one will not be.

I totally agree with LBH here...sad...not only sad...it was just plan stupid. So since you seem to be completely ignorant of how that turtle was helping your lake far more than harming it, allow me to eductate you my trigger happy friend.

"The Snapping Turtle (Chelydra serpentina), or more formally referred to as Common Snapping Turtle when distinguishing them from their larger cousins (Macrochelys), and are popularly nicknamed "snappers". They are large freshwater turtles of the family Chelydridae, ranging from southeastern Canada west to the Rocky Mountains (and beyond, where introduced), and south through Mexico to Ecuador.

Common snappers are noted for their pugnacious dispositions when out of the water, their powerful beak-like jaws and their highly mobile head and neck (hence the specific name "serpentina," meaning "snake-like"). They have rugged, muscular builds with ridged shells (though these ridges tend to be more pronounced in younger individuals). The carapace length in adulthood may be nearly 50 cm (20 inches) (though 20-36 cm, or 8-14 inches, is more common), with C. serpentina and its subspecies commonly weighing up 4.5-16 kg (10-35 lb). Exceptional individuals may reach 34 kg (75 lb). In some areas they are hunted heavily for their meat, a popular ingredient in turtle soup. Common snappers have lived for up to 39 years in captivity, while the lifespan of wild individuals is estimated to be around 30 years.

Common snappers have long tails with spiky protrusions, as well as long flexible necks which can reach one-half to two-thirds of the length of their shells, making handling dangerous. They cannot fully retract their head and appendages, relying on fierce displays when aggravated. Their snapping jaws and sharp claws are capable of inflicting serious injury up to and including amputation of digits.

Four subspecies of Chelydra serpentina are typically recognized. C. s. serpentina is the form present across the majority of its North American range, occurring east of the Continental Divide into most of southern Canada, the United States, and parts of northern Mexico. C. s. osceola occurs only in peninsular Florida up to the Okefenokee area of southern Georgia. C. s. acutirostris and C. s. rossignonii are neotropical, C. s. rossignonii occurring in southern Mexico, Belize, Guatemala and Honduras while C s. acutirostris ranges from Nicaragua across the Central American isthmus down the South American Pacific coastal region to Ecuador.

The genus Chelydra is exclusively North American. Its earliest occurrence is from the late Barstovian (middle Miocene) of Cherry County, Nebraska. This assignment is based on a single partial right hypoplastron that is described as being markedly more massive and rugose than C. serpentina. No species assignment was made for this specimen. Published reports of Chelydra from the Pliocene involve very scant material. A large, undescribed fossil member is known from upper Pliocene localities of northern Florida. Specimens of this new species are by far the largest Chelydra ever discovered, reaching a carapace length of over 127 cm (50 inches). Abundant records of Chelydra from the Pleistocene have been published.

These turtles spend most of their time beneath the surface of any permanent body of water, whether shallow ponds, shallow lakes, or streams. Some may inhabit brackish environments, such as estuaries. Common Snapping Turtles sometimes bask - though rarely observed - by floating on the surface with only their carapace exposed, though in the northern parts of their range they will also readily bask on fallen logs in early spring. In shallow waters, common snappers may lie beneath a muddy bottom with only the head exposed, stretching their long necks to the surface for an occasional breath (note that their nostrils are positioned on the very tip of the snout, effectively functioning as snorkels). Snapping turtles are omnivores, consuming both plant and animal matter, and are important aquatic scavengers; but they are also active hunters that prey on anything they can swallow, including many invertebrates, fish, frogs, reptiles (including snakes and smaller turtles), unwary birds and small mammals.

Snappers will also travel extensively overland to reach new habitat or to lay eggs. Pollution, habitat destruction, food scarcity, overcrowding and other factors will drive snappers to move overland; it is quite common to find them travelling far from the nearest water source. Snapping turtles mate from April through November, with their peak laying season in June and July. The female can hold sperm for several seasons, utilizing it as necessary. Females travel over land to find sandy soil in which to lay their eggs, often some distance from the water. After digging a hole, the female typically deposits 25 to 80 eggs each year, guiding them into the nest with her hind feet and covering them with sand for incubation and protection. Incubation time is temperature-dependent, ranging from 9 to 18 weeks. In cooler climates, hatchlings overwinter in the nest.

It is a common misconception that a Snapping Turtle may be safely picked up by its tail, with no harm to the animal; in fact, this has a high chance of injuring the turtle, especially the tail itself and the vertebral column. A handler must also be wary of injury to themself. Snapping turtles are aptly named, as they can snap with amazing speed and power; a full grown snapper can easily nip off a finger. The safest method, of course, is to avoid handling a snapper at all. If moving it is absolutely necessary, scooping and lifting the turtle just off the ground with a shovel (especially a snow shovel), if done quickly, may be safest and easiest for all concerned parties.

Lifting the turtle with the hands is difficult. Some snappers can stretch their necks halfway back across their own carapace. Manual lifting (which should be done only if no other options are available) is best accomplished by sliding fingers behind the turtle's hind legs, with the tail between the hands and gripping the turtle between the fingers and thumbs. The handler then proceeds to lift the turtle only just off the ground. The turtle will probably squirm and try to dislodge the handler's hands with its hind legs. Even a small snapper is relatively powerful for its size, with long sharp claws; further, due to their aquatic inclinations these turtles are often slimy and wet, and they are good at causing prospective handlers to lose their grip. In any case that a snapping turtle must be handled, it is best to have the turtle on the ground or very close. Wild turtles may be covered with a smelly pond slime and may also defecate, urinate, or musk on a handler.

When raised in captivity, a snapper may sometimes become docile and show preference for its keeper. It may show signs of recognizing individual people and will seek out those whose company it tolerates. Some can be taught to obey simple commands, but this can be a long process, as snapping turtles display the stubborn nature that is a defining characteristic of all turtle species. Common snappers kept as pets can become quite corpulent (up to 39 kg, or 86 lb); and even properly fed individuals may be difficult to move without their cooperation - and moving may become essential, as turtles require frequent water changes to remain content and healthy."

Congratulations, you just ignorantly killed a great asset to your pond in helping manage your bass population. That turtle would have helped cull small, weak, injured, or diseased bass on the rare occasion that it would catch one. I pity you in some ways...the fact that you decided to shoot the animal, based on your poor knowledge base of the animal, before taking the time to research it to see what possible impact it could have on your body of water, either positive or negative, says a lot about your total lack of respect for nature. Just "doing what your folks asked" is no excuse as it sems that they were poorly educated on the subject as well. Just a little research would have kept that turtle alive. Quite frankly, that turtle had more right to be there than you did. It was in it's natural environment...it's HOME. Just because it was viewed as "in your way" or a "nuisance" it was killed.

[John J.]

Common snappers have long tails with spiky protrusions, as well as long flexible necks which can reach one-half to two-thirds of the length of their shells, making handling dangerous. They cannot fully retract their head and appendages, relying on fierce displays when aggravated. Their snapping jaws and sharp claws are capable of inflicting serious injury up to and including amputation of digits.

A handler must also be wary of injury to themself. Snapping turtles are aptly named, as they can snap with amazing speed and power; a full grown snapper can easily nip off a finger. The safest method, of course, is to avoid handling a snapper at all. If moving it is absolutely necessary, scooping and lifting the turtle just off the ground with a shovel (especially a snow shovel), if done quickly, may be safest and easiest for all concerned parties.

Didn't I say before that the pond was no more than 50 yards from the house. If you were to read what I read rather than reading what other people read you would have known that! As for your ignorant and disrespectful post I do not approve at all and will not tolerate such a repulsive response.

It is ONE SINGLE TURTLE! And I will not risk the chance of my loved ones getting hurt! My parents did say to get rid of it, And I respect them, they own the land, not me and I do what they say.

We stocked the pond full of bass, bluegill, and fathead minnows to replenish the pond environment. We had a professional come out and make sure all the number of fish were equal and essential to a healthy pond...he did NOT say anything about a turtle! So we got rid of it to reassure that the pond environment we created remained balanced.

You have shame and pity for me? tsk! You are trying to make me feel guilty about killing that turtle. Now that I read what you posted, I can assure you I took great pleasure in taking that turtle out!   ;D > >

[Valascus]

I am pretty sure that animal didn't wake up one day and say "Gee, I think I'd like to bite off one of John's digits today!" I don't care if you were living in a house boat on that pond! There is a very simple approoach to keeping yourself safe from this animal. Are you ready for this?

LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!

I am pretty sure if you mind your own business and not handle the turtle, you aren't gonna get bit by it. Imagine that!

[John J.]

You are really an aggressive and crazy human being...all that talk and disrespect over a turtle...tsk tsk tsk I pity you for lowering yourself for one single animal. Lemme guess, you feel the same way for other animals too?

[Valascus]

I, my friend, don't do this very often. This is the first time I have taken the time to post my thoughts on a subject such as this. And yes...I do feel this way about all animals. I deeply respect nature. It is a retreat from my daily life. I am not against hunting or anything like that...though I am not really sure how I feel about sport hunting. If I am gonna kill something, there will be only three reasons for it. 1) I'm gonna eat it. 2) It's getting ready to severely harm me. 3)The State Department of Natural Resources has deemed that the population of said animal has become to large and will beging to negatively impact the balance of the ecosystem in which it resides and that some culling will be necessary.

As far as me being aggressive, I am not the one shooting animals with a 12 gauge shotgun and triumphantly posting my results of slaying the animal. Heck, I don't even own a gun. Never been in any type of physical type of alterication since I was maybe 10 years old and needed to defend myself from some midle school kids. If I am lowering myself for "one single animal", then so be it. I will gladly "lower" myself in order to educate about mother nature in hopes that some folks will gain a better respect for her due to my attempts of education.

[John J.]

As I stated before, I posted this to get opinions to what people think. And to see if it was a good idea. Some people agree with me, and some people disagree, I respect both ways. But for some, things got a little out of hand. And therefore totally threw this thread way off the tracks. If I was to go out and slay everything in sight, then yes, I'd have disrespect for 'mother nature' and be a cold hearted person. But to slay one turtle, for which I thought was a nuisance, and an unwanted addition to my family's pond, no, that's not disrespect, nor is it ignorance.

But to blow up on someone who thought he was doing right, but because of someone's opinion that he wasn't right, is disrespect.

You don't know me and I don't know you. But I think this entire thread needs to come to a close. We have recieved many opinions both negative and positive, and in certain cases extremely negative. What has been done is done and there is nothing to reverse it.

If there was a way to reverse it, I may have let it live to see what more it would do, but considering the unusual death of a few of our fish, kind of had me thinking it was meant to be.

either way in the end of this conversation, I am darned if I do and darned if I don't. Because if I didn't kill that turtle, he may have decreased the chance of our fish population in the pond to live. Then again there is also that chance that since I did kill it they will thrive.

It is not a guilt that I will take in life, but rather a memory, something to look back upon and base my decisions on. Even though I did think before I acted. After seeing those few fish dead in the pond, made me think. There was nothing in the pond that could have done the damage.

[BucketmouthAngler13]

Snapping turtles hardly ever eat bass or even bait fish.

Snapping turtles are good for the bass population, and for the intire pond itself.

How are snapping turtles good for bass, if you say they never eat any smaller bass or baitfish?  The only way I could see snapping turtles being good for bass is if they ate some of the smaller bass, therefore reducing the overall population and making the remaining bass larger.  However,you say they don't do that though...  :-?

Snapping turtles are the vultures of the underwater world. They feed mainly on dead things. Large snapping turtles (ten times the size of the one you shot) prey on the sickly fish, birds and what not. They prevent these sicknesses from spreading.

Snapping turtles with bass is like vultures with deer.

[Guest avid]

John,

This a free forum and althougth Glenn and the mods will never let things get out of control, as you can see it can get a little hot sometimes.

I think you need to separate a couple of things.

1.  Obeying your parents.   It's ok to try and change their mind, but in the end I'm a firm believer in doing what mom or dad says to do.

2.  Deciding for yourself what is "ok" and what isn't.  

I was disappointed to see Valascus be so aggressive with you.  

It appears to me that you are coming to that point in your life where you may not always agree with your parents, but it is difficult to find your own path.  

It's called adolescence>  it aint easy but you'll survive.

I'm glad you made your post.  I'm glad your going to do some research.  I'm glad that you have ethical values and more importantly an appreciation for all of God's creatures.

Your a good kid,  I suspect you'll grow up to be a good man.

sincerely,

avid

[BucketmouthAngler13]

Turtles are NOT a threat to humans or bass. If you dont know how to handle somthing that can bite your hand off, then dont do it. Check out this 35lb common snapping turtle that me and my friend cought.

http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/catfishguy/?action=view&current=turtle1.jpg

A turtle like this is one of the best things you can have in your pond, period. They will not attack humans or pets in the water, and are only agressive out of the water. Unlike other turtles which sun bask reguraly, snappers only leave the water to feed on somthing dead on the bank or to lay eggs. You will never get bit by a snapper if you just leave them alone. In this case the snapper was tangled in fishing line from a dock and we cut the lines, netted him, brought him to land, weighed him, photographed him, and released him. If you handle them right you are safe as could be, and its alot more fun than bass fishing.

They have laws about mindless turtle shooting for a reason. Get your facts right before you go around shooting birdshot.

[John J.]

John,

This a free forum and althougth Glenn and the mods will never let things get out of control, as you can see it can get a little hot sometimes.

I think you need to separate a couple of things.

1. Obeying your parents. It's ok to try and change their mind, but in the end I'm a firm believer in doing what mom or dad says to do.

2. Deciding for yourself what is "ok" and what isn't.

I was disappointed to see Valascus be so aggressive with you.

It appears to me that you are coming to that point in your life where you may not always agree with your parents, but it is difficult to find your own path.

It's called adolescence> it aint easy but you'll survive.

I'm glad you made your post. I'm glad your going to do some research. I'm glad that you have ethical values and more importantly an appreciation for all of God's creatures.

Your a good kid, I suspect you'll grow up to be a good man.

sincerely,

avid

Thanks Avid!  

There are some times when I decide on what my actions should be. Everyone makes mistakes, it is human nature. In my opinion things like these shouldn't be posted in the first place, which this whole thing is my fault, and I understand that.

I don't feel bad for posting it, but rather I learned a lesson from it. Things such as this should be kept confidential, after all this is a bass forum, not a hunting one.

The main reason why I listened to my folks on this occasion is because they lived in Louisianna all their lives and they were exposed to things like this. I trusted their opinion on it and therefore I took action.

One day I will be able to take my own path (sooner than I think...  ;D) and I will be able to make decisions.

For all of those who posted in this topic, I do apologize for bringing it up and posting something on the board that caused controversy.

This is a family board, let's not let a single post and a certain topic separate us all.

God bless all!  8-)

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

We stocked the pond full of bass, bluegill, and fathead minnows to replenish the pond environment. We had a professional come out and make sure all the number of fish were equal and essential to a healthy pond...he did NOT say anything about a turtle! So we got rid of it to reassure that the pond environment we created remained balanced.

Get another professional.  that turtle is (was) older than him and your parents.  Chances are, he's been (was) a resident there since birth.

I understand listening to your parents but they are capable of being educated too.  If you gave it some thought, you could have come here and asked advice.  We could have pointed you in the direction needed for you to educate your folks.

Either way, I don't see this going anywhere positive.  Lets just leave it alone and all think twice about posting things we may regret.

Moving on...