guns

[Maxximus Redneckus]

Ok lets make this short and sweet,Should law abiding Citizens be allowed to concealed carry in all 50 states just  vote  yes or no  ...no replys they seem to cause Drama  LMAO

[Root beer]

2nd amendment is orginal homeland secruity that works.

[flechero]

Texas is considering allowing CC anywhere, includin schools, post office, courthouses, etc.  I really hope it passes because I have to disarm several times a day going to court and post office, etc. for work and I HATE worrying about a weapon left in a car.  (not to mention it breaks the concealed part of the rules when you draw and re-holster to put the gun in the car)

[burleytog]

I am torn on this matter.  While I would love national reciprocity, I feel quite strongly about the sovereignty of states.

[Maxximus Redneckus]

I am torn on this matter. While I would love national reciprocity, I feel quite strongly about the sovereignty of states.

Burley yall got it made in Va,i hear you can carry there with a permit and the same permit works in 14 other states am i right???i Think i can get a permit if i take a  gun course in Va even if i dont live there i also heard this .im hoping its true casue i go to Luray,fredricksburg, Historical places Etc... a lot not that i have ever had a problem in Va nice ppl over there

[JiggaMan512]

Texas is considering allowing CC anywhere, includin schools, post office, courthouses, etc.  I really hope it passes because I have to disarm several times a day going to court and post office, etc. for work and I HATE worrying about a weapon left in a car.  (not to mention it breaks the concealed part of the rules when you draw and re-holster to put the gun in the car)

flechero, from one (native) Texan to another, I'm going to definitely have to disagree on your opinion of allowing concealment in the court house. That is just one place that NOBODY but sheriffs, bailiffs, etc should be allowed to have a firearm. There has already been incidences where the defendant has actually taken an officers' pistol from their holster and shot multiple innocent people, including the judge. I believe the scenario that im specifically referring to was in ATL, Ga.. not sure though. I think if you have a CC permit, and need to step in the court house, there should be a "check in" area at the entrance (where the metal detectors/officers are) similar to a restaurants' coat check. Besides that, anywhere but a courthouse, you should be allowed to carry and conceal. Just my .02

[JiggaMan512]

Oh yeah FLECHERO, i gotta question for ya... I heard this years ago, and have never found out if theres any truth to it.....

True or False

In Texas, a property owner can shoot (to kill) ANYONE that steps on a single inch of their property with out ANY discrepancy to who the "trespasser" is, or what their intentions are; being threatening or not.

So, this is true, in theory, if someone was walking on the sidewalk by my house, and stepped ONE FOOT on my lawn to ask , "Excuse me, do you know what street the closest bus stop is on?" Does that give me permission to point my .223 at 'em and fire away??!

[Maxximus Redneckus]

Florida has a cool law also not about CC but using your GUN ANYWHERE to defend yourself .Dont matter if your in the ghetto on a FRi night driving past a club if you feel threatened you can use deadly force no questioned asked of course this only pertains to LAW  ABIDING CITIZENS though which is how it should have always been  STATEWIDE >

[tallydude]

I am torn on this matter. While I would love national reciprocity, I feel quite strongly about the sovereignty of states.

Gotta agree with Burley here. I believe that far too many things are mandated at the national level. Let the states decide. And yes, I'm for concealed carry here in Florida.

[PaparockArk]

Quote

Oh yeah FLECHERO, i gotta question for ya... I heard this years ago, and have never found out if theres any truth to it.....

True or False

In Texas, a property owner can shoot (to kill) ANYONE that steps on a single inch of their property with out ANY discrepancy to who the "trespasser" is, or what their intentions are; being threatening or not.

So, this is true, in theory, if someone was walking on the sidewalk by my house, and stepped ONE FOOT on my lawn to ask , "Excuse me, do you know what street the closest bus stop is on?" Does that give me permission to point my .223 at 'em and fire away??!

You Heard Wrong!

Do an internet search before presenting false information. I lived there for 15 years until recently and still have many relatives there. Look up the "After Dark Law" that allows Texans to use up to deadly force to prevent crimes from being commited against them. For instance if you catch pople breaking into your house, car, boat, etc. after dark and you try to stop them, are in fear of your life you can use deadly force to stop the crime in progress. Personally I carried a short 12 gauge with buckshot but then I had a brother-in-law on the Houston PD, a second cousin in the Texas Rangers, and my wife (now ex-wife) was a sheriff's deputy.

Now, if you want some people to worry about, in some western states like Wyoming it is legal to carry a gun anytime as long as it is not concealed without a permit but in Alaska residents do not need a permit to carry concealed.

[Maxximus Redneckus]

Now this is were it gets tricky IF you carry out in the open im thinking what exact law are you breaking if you have not broken a law i think this is a big debate nationwide .When they read you your Miranda rights they say anything you say can and will be held against you in the court of law .If all you say is I have the right to keep and bear arms LMAO WTH can they actually get you for if they are reading your rights from the same bill of rights ?????  I know this gets deeper and such with GOV imposing so many details and loopholes .But i would think you can counter them with the bill of rights

[PaparockArk]

[quote author=the_Conceited_ReDnEcK link=1179283279/0#10 date=1179361010

Now this is were it gets tricky IF you carry out in the open im thinking what exact law are you breaking if you have not broken a law i think this is a big debate nationwide .When they read you your Miranda rights they say anything you say can and will be held against you in the court of law .If all you say is I have the right to keep and bear arms LMAO WTH can they actually get you for if they are reading your rights from the same bill of rights ????? I know this gets deeper and such with GOV imposing so many details and loopholes .But i would think you can counter them with the bill of rights

[Maxximus Redneckus]

[quote author=the_Conceited_ReDnEcK link=1179283279/0#10 date=1179361010

Now this is were it gets tricky IF you carry out in the open im thinking what exact law are you breaking if you have not broken a law i think this is a big debate nationwide .When they read you your Miranda rights they say anything you say can and will be held against you in the court of law .If all you say is I have the right to keep and bear arms LMAO WTH can they actually get you for if they are reading your rights from the same bill of rights ????? I know this gets deeper and such with GOV imposing so many details and loopholes .But i would think you can counter them with the bill of rights

The short answer is "yes", as in some states such as Texas, handguns are classed as a prohibited weapon unless you have a CCW permit, are in route to and from hunting or a gun range, the gun and ammo must be separated and there are other restrictions. The laws vary widely from state to state, that is why in Texas I carried a just within legal limit 12 gauge because I could carry it legally loaded (before concealed carry became legal). It also saved my life one night from two men meaning to rob and kill me, or so they said. After hearing that load of buckshot load into the chamber and then seeing the muzzle of the 12 gauge they seemed to remember an extremely pressing engagement they had elsewhere. Even if you are within the law to shoot it does not mean their relatives will not sue you with all the accompanying expense and headache even when you win. Of course, if either, one had made a move for or a display of a weapon there would have been no hesitation on my part. My aim was to walk away and the fact they ran away worked for me too.

Now, I loved living in Wyoming. The police would give you a ticket for disturbing the peace if you wore a gun straped down on your hip within the city limits but it could be siiting in plain site in your vehicle or on your hip outside the city limits 24/7/365 with nobody saying a word. That was up untill 1990 when I relocated to Texas. You would have to check to see if the laws are still the same today.

[Ghost Rider]

You know there is this small country call Switzerland and every house has a gun what do you think the crime rate there is?

Oh in the State of Texas you better shoot to kill dont let the perp off with a leg shoot he will turn around and file suit againts you and chances are he will win... because he had a hard life and was out of re-hab for the 5 th time. also he was in and out of jail. so dont miss..

[Maxximus Redneckus]

You know there is this small country call Switzerland and every house has a gun what do you think the crime rate there is?

Oh in the State of Texas you better shoot to kill dont let the perp off with a leg shoot he will turn around and file suit againts you and chances are he will win... because he had a hard life and was out of re-hab for the 5 th time. also he was in and out of jail. so dont miss..

keep it short and simple "dead men cant talk""The less you tell police the less they have to counter you in court "yes he said he was going to kill me i felt threatened for my life " Dont ad no more or no less

[drakedeming]

Florida has a cool law also not about CC but using your GUN ANYWHERE to defend yourself .Dont matter if your in the ghetto on a FRi night driving past a club if you feel threatened you can use deadly force no questioned asked of course this only pertains to LAW ABIDING CITIZENS though which is how it should have always been STATEWIDE >

that could get real bad because some peoples definition of life threating, sy you are getting robbed at gun point and you pull your gun out to shoot the perp, somone else could see you pulling your gun out and see that it was aimed in thier general direction and thier life is in danger then they shoot you!

The only real solution is for people to stop acting like idiots and not commit crimes, but that will never happen(unless we can eliminate poverty, even then there would still be some crime)

[PaparockArk]

Guys and gals here on the forum as any law enforcement officer or lawyer on this forum can tell you criminal court and law is one matter however civil court and civil law is a whole different ball game. Even if you are not held criminally guilty of committing a crime, a civil court can still ruin your life. That is why unless you are truly in fear of being killed never ever take another's life because a courtroom will be a very unfriendly place with people trying to trip you up with any word or action they view as inconsistent seized upon. Even law enforcement officers are taught after a shooing to ask for legal representation so that they have time to calm down and rationally make a coherent official statement with legal advise. In today's world, a misspoken word (even though you know what you meant by it) can have major legal repercussions. Making statements in the heat of the moment has in fact ruined man good peoples lives. Stay within the law when it come to self defense and never embellish or lie about any facts of the case because when found out they will make you look guilt even when you are not. Also never, move or tamper with the evidence (like putting a knife or gun in their hand or moving the body) for the same reasons. Let the facts prove you innocent if in fact you are.

Anyone who even thinks they may need to use deadly force needs to read all the books by Massad Ayoob they can like:

1.      Armed Response: A Comprehensive Guide to Using Firearms for Self-Defense

2.      In the Gravest Extreme Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection

3.      The Truth About Self Protection

Massad Ayoob is presently Director of Lethal Force Institute, training 800 to 1,200 personnel per year in judicious use of deadly force, armed and unarmed combat, threat management for police, and advanced officer survival, coordinating a dozen LFI staff instructors and assistant instructors in four countries. He appears selectively as a court accepted expert witness in the areas of dynamics of violent encounters weapons and weapons/self defense/police training, and survival and threat management tactics and principles.

Teaching Experience:

International Director of Police Firearms Training, Defensive Tactics Institute, 1980-82

Special Instructor, Chapman Academy, 1981-88

Assistant Professor teaching weapons and Chemical Agents, Advanced Police Training Program of New Hampshire 1974-77

Special Instructor, NH Institute of Karate

Feature lecturer, Missouri Police Shooting State Championships and Seminar, 1983-88

International Instructor Staff, PR-24 police baton training program

National Chairman, committee on police firearms training, American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers (ASLET), 1987-present

Co-instructor (with former world combat pistol champion Ray Chapman) of Advanced Officer Survival Seminars conducted nationwide through Police Marksman Association Lecturer and coordinator, first state ASLET seminar (New Hampshire, 1988)

Ethicist Experience:

Senior Research Associate, Center for Advancement of Applied Ethics, Carnegie-Mellon University, 1990 to present.

Member of Ethics Committee, ASLET, 1994 to 1998.

Combat Shooting Qualifications and Awards:

Four Gun Master, International Dfensive Pistol Assn.

Combat Master, NRA Police Revolver Master, Revolver, National Marksman Sports Society Master, Automatic, National Marksman Sports Society Class A, International Practical Shooting Confederation Grand Mastershot, UKPSA Master Blaster, Second Chance Expert, NRA Action Shooting Honorary Distinguished Expert, Federal Law Enforcement Training Center

New Hampshire State Champion, police combat shooting, 1973, 1989

Overall top shooter, NH Police Association annual match, 1988

Co-holder (w/Cpl. Robert Houzenga) 2-man State Champion Team, Professional Class, Missouri Police State Championships, 1988

New England Regional combat shooting champion, 3-gun, 1981

Top shooter, NH Police Officers Association annual combat match, 1988-89

2nd overall (1st Master), Fraternal Order of Police National Championship, 1977

Has twice placed in top 5, several times in top 20 at Second Chance National Police Combat Shoot

Has place in top 20 at Bianchi Cup Invitational Professional Handgun Tournament, one of only three people in the world to have completed in all ten Bianchi Cups 1979-88

Only officer of 600 to be judged to have survived unsurvivable Duelatron computerized ambush course, Ohio State Peace Officer Training Academy, 1980 Winner, New England Duelatron Championships, 1980 Co-Winner, National Duelatron Shoot, Michigan, 1980 4th Place, National Duelatron Shoot, Michigan, 1979 Won two gold and two silver medals in combat shooting, Bisley, England, 1979 (850 competitors representing 15 nations) Has held three national records in combat pistol shooting Winner, Montreal Professional Charity Pistol Match, 1986 Holds record for highest score to win New Hampshire Police Association service revolver event (5/88) Has competed in all six National Tactical Invitationals to date, finishing Top 3 in three. Has won numerous individual/local combat shooting tournaments, has competed successfully in five countries. Current NH State Champion, Stock Service Revolver (IDPA) Current NH State Champion, Senior Class (IDPA) National Champion, senior class, 1999 (Mid-Winter Nationals) National Champion Parent/Child Handgun Team (w/daughter Justine Ayoob, then 13 year old, sub-junior class), 1998, National Junior Handgun Championships.

[flechero]

Texas is considering allowing CC anywhere, includin schools, post office, courthouses, etc. I really hope it passes because I have to disarm several times a day going to court and post office, etc. for work and I HATE worrying about a weapon left in a car. (not to mention it breaks the concealed part of the rules when you draw and re-holster to put the gun in the car)

flechero, from one (native) Texan to another, I'm going to definitely have to disagree on your opinion of allowing concealment in the court house. That is just one place that NOBODY but sheriffs, bailiffs, etc should be allowed to have a firearm. There has already been incidences where the defendant has actually taken an officers' pistol from their holster and shot multiple innocent people, including the judge. I believe the scenario that im specifically referring to was in ATL, Ga.. not sure though. I think if you have a CC permit, and need to step in the court house, there should be a "check in" area at the entrance (where the metal detectors/officers are) similar to a restaurants' coat check. Besides that, anywhere but a courthouse, you should be allowed to carry and conceal. Just my .02

That's exactly why i think I should be able to carry there...  the police pistol (carried openly) was taken and innocent, unarmed people, were picked off like sillouettes.  Had some of those people been armed, there is a good chance that fewer people would have been shot. and killed.  

The last thing I ever want to do in the world is have to draw and shoot.  BUT when faced with a life or death situation,  I cannot draw when my weapon is secured in a vehicle or lock box.  

[michbass]

I have had my CCW since Michigan passed the law and pretty much carry anytime I leave home. I do consider it a privlige and not a right. Hopefully never need to use it as the sad thing is that your will most likely lose everything in cival court doing to being sued for defending yourself. Several Michigan resedents that have  been sued by the crimals family in cival court and lost even though it was a justified shooting.

I am pro gun and will leave it at that.

[RecMar8541]

I am glad to see many of my fellow Floridians endorse concealed carry.  I maybe biased, I teach a ccw course here in Florida.  There are many laws here that actually side with the legal carrier.

I am also  advocate of judicious use.  Meaning I am not of the blast first ask questions later faction.  I have never had to use a sidearm in civilian life, the same is untrue of my military career.  

Frankly I feel that all 50 should in fact allow honest law abiding citizens to carry, however, I feel personally that there needs to be training, and to some extent it needs to be advanced.  Im not talking about granny grunt who has a hand gun in her night stand.  Im talking about billy joe bob jimmy who feels the need to carry one every place, and make d**n sure everyone knows he has one.  I feel that someone who carries legally should in fact be held accountable if used improperly.  No different than driving a car.

P_Rock,

I know Mr. Ayoob personally.  He is also the developer of the Maddanock pr-24, that funny little night stick with the handle off the side.  I have shot againt him in target matches as well as one on one combat matches using marker ammo.  He is devistating, and bar NONE the best I have ever seen. When it comes to handgunning,  If he told me the sun wouldnt rise tomorrow, Id stock up on batteries.

Regards,

Recon

[Root beer]

I really want a handgun when I turn 21. If I'm a professional angler, I defitnely want a gun. Reason being is on the road a lot, I end up somewhere that might be a bad neighborhood or something tries steal my boat, or gears anything I have a gun and tell him to back off. I'm not going to shoot him, but just let him know you cant steal my gears. Even if I'm not a professional angler I still want a handgun, I believe it a priviledge not a right.

I'm curious what happens if you have a Conceal permit and you need go into the bank? Do you just leave your gun in the truck, then all sudden a bank robber might come in. Or do you tell a secruity guard if there is one you have a conceal weapon?

[Rattlinrogue]

I'm for concealed carry,but as others have said I think it should be up to the state.The Fed has just gone too far in running peoples lives.

[PaparockArk]

P_Rock,

I know Mr. Ayoob personally. He is also the developer of the Maddanock pr-24, that funny little night stick with the handle off the side. I have shot againt him in target matches as well as one on one combat matches using marker ammo. He is devistating, and bar NONE the best I have ever seen. When it comes to handgunning, If he told me the sun wouldnt rise tomorrow, Id stock up on batteries.

Regards,

Recon

When it comes to your life and your liberty, one should listen and learn from the best especially those that have been there and done that. My dad was a First Sgt. in the Army and while I was a lowly "gold brick" I learned from my father who to look to that could keep me alive. My Platoon Sgt. used to say about me, I was the first 2Lt. with brains he had ever met (my father raised me right). ;D

[burleytog]

I'm for concealed carry,but as others have said I think it should be up to the state.The Fed has just gone too far in running peoples lives.

Aye, but there is the other side of the coin to consider.

Take Illinois for example.  The entire state is controlled by a small portion of the population (Chicago).  

As an aside, all too often what happens in one state will influence what happens in the other 49.  Meaning that if XX state passes a certain law, YY state will pass a similar law.

Then take the Full Faith & Credit Clause into account.  This tidbit came to the forefront when gay marriage was on everyone's mind.  The brouhaha was that if MA legalized gay marriage, then other states would be in a position of recognizing the civil union.

Now why that doesn't translate into the ability for me as a VA resident to carry in all 50 states is a question best left to the lawyers.  All I know is that I do limit my travels to those states who recognize my rights and allow me to exercise them as I see fit.

IL, CA, NY, NJ, MA, MD will never see a penny from my pocket (at least not directly).

[Maxximus Redneckus]

I'm for concealed carry,but as others have said I think it should be up to the state.The Fed has just gone too far in running peoples lives.

Aye, but there is the other side of the coin to consider.

Take Illinois for example. The entire state is controlled by a small portion of the population (Chicago).

As an aside, all too often what happens in one state will influence what happens in the other 49. Meaning that if XX state passes a certain law, YY state will pass a similar law.

Then take the Full Faith & Credit Clause into account. This tidbit came to the forefront when gay marriage was on everyone's mind. The brouhaha was that if MA legalized gay marriage, then other states would be in a position of recognizing the civil union.

Now why that doesn't translate into the ability for me as a VA resident to carry in all 50 states is a question best left to the lawyers. All I know is that I do limit my travels to those states who recognize my rights and allow me to exercise them as I see fit.

IL, CA, NY, NJ, MA, MD will never see a penny from my pocket (at least not directly).

Burley im wondering can i carry in Va if i notify the police and give um say my name, what truck im driving ,plate # and such or do i have to go get a permit ???